Medjugorje - "The Great Prophecy" Is Unfolding

To Fatima

I am grateful that you provided a link using which I could read about Blessed Elena. I am not very much familiar with the Saints of the Catholic Church and I apologize for that. I have no doubt that Blessed Elena lived her life as a saint women. And she deserves our greatest respect and love.

But, at the same time, with all my respect to the saints of the Catholic Church and to the saints of the Russian Orthodox Church, the prophecies of the Saints are not the Holy Scripture. We can rely 100% only on the Prophecies in the OT and the NT. All other prophecies must be taken with a certain degree of reservation.

The Blessed Elena is right that the Vatican will be overrun and the Popes (not just the Pope) will suffer greatly. It can be proven using Daniel's Prophecies and the Revelation. But the Vatican will be overrun by the Beast which is Islam, and not by Russia. And it can be proven using Daniel's Prophecies and the Revelation.

As for Putin, I am not much concerned with whether or not Putin apologized for something. Let Russian and Ukrainian people to settle this question. I am concerned with the Islamic Antichrist, and this Islamic Antichrist is not Putin. And it also can be proven using Daniel's Prophecies and the Revelation.

 

There have been many 'spirits of the anti-Christ' (Hitler, Mao, Stalin) who have done great destruction in the world. If all you are concerned about is Thee Antichrist then you are correct. However, he will be foreshadowed by much great evil by others in the 'spirit of the Antichrist' and these are the ones I am most immediately concerned with. Our Lady of Fatima was not concerned with the Antichrist when she said that Russia would annihilate countries, the good would be martyred and the Holy Father would have much to suffer. This is the period that should concern us most at this point.

 

To Fatima:

It is not reasonable for me to comment until I know the exact words of our Lady of Fatima. Could you please provide me with some link where I can see the exact quote from our Lady of Fatima, because her words most definitely must be taken into the account?

And I am concerned with The Antichrist, although there have been many spirits of the Antichrist (Hitler, Mao, Stalin), as you pointed out. I would only add to this list so-called "prophet" Muhammad and THE evil spirit that inspired this so-called "scripture" which is the Quran.

And The Antichrist will not be overshadowed by the greater evil of others. The Antichrist and all that he stands for is THE greatest evil, and, in the nearest future, it will be obvious for everybody.

 

The term Antichrist never appears in Revelation. It is an opinion and an assumption that one of the "beasts" described in Revelation refers to an individual that equates to a singular "Antichrist", though I don't think the Church (through its teaching authority) has put forth that interpretation of scripture as Truth.

The false prophet is mentioned, but not a person known as the Antichrist.

 

Fair enough. There is sufficient facts on this event. The Consecration of Russia: "I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart...If people attend to My requests, Russia will be converted and the world will have peace." In the apparition of July 13, Our Lady warned the three seers that if people did not stop offending God, He would punish the world "by means of war, hunger and persecution of the Church and of the Holy Father," using Russia as His chosen instrument of chastisement. She told the children that "to prevent this, I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart" and promised that, by this single public act, Russia would be converted and peace would be given to the world. The Mother of God cautioned that if Her requests were not granted, "Russia will spread its errors throughout the world, raising up wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer and various nations will be annihilated.".............................. read more........... http://www.fatima.org/essentials/facts/consecra.asp

 

concernedforusa,

Welcome to the forum. I believe you are one of the first to advocate the idea of an Islamic AntiChrist on a Catholic forum. Actually, there is much to be said in favor of this position over the commonly held view that the European Union will provide the launchpad for his appearance. Most of us here, however, place the timing of the AntiChrist after a series of events known as the Warning, Little Tribulation, and Miracle which were revealed by Our Lady in Garabandal, Spain in the 1960s. Those apparitions, in turn, relate to the Fatima message of 1917. So, for us to focus on your area of interest would require us to leap frog over what is perceived as the more immediate future.

May I suggest you begin a new thread under the Signs of the Times subforum. I'll be glad to give some personal input if you do.

Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!

 

To Fatima:

You wrote:

The term “the Antichrist” never appears in the Revelation, but it does appear in 1 John 4:3. Because of that, the term “the Antichrist” is used by many Biblical commentators in reference to a vile person that will appear in the Last Days described in the prophecies of Daniel and in the Revelation. This vile person, who arises in the Last Days, was also described by Apostle Paul as “the man of sin”.

Those who assume that the Beast in the Revelation represents the Antichrist are mistaken. The Beast from the Sea is the entity, not a person. The Beast from the Sea is well defined by Revelation 17:9-18, Revelation 13:1-6, Daniel 2 and Daniel 7.

The Beast from the Earth in Revelation 13 is the false prophet in Revelation 19:20. This is the same person described by Apostle Paul as “the man of sin”. He is whom we call the Antichrist.

The Beast represents a false religion of Islam. In fact it is the Antichrist’s religion. One cannot force people to worship communism, but one can force people to worship Allah, who is the Satan.


I researched on the Third secret of Fatima. This secret was not revealed completely yet. So, it is difficult to comment until we know the EXACT words of our Lady of Fatima.

That is absolutely correct! That is what the End of Times prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation reveal.

Absolutely correct! It has been announced in Scripture!

It seems to me the Vatican knows exactly what is going on and what is to come just in a few short years.


It has been announced in the Scripture that the Beast, the Islamic countries will overrun Rome. The fact that the prophecies (not in Scripture) indicate that Russia will be in the war with the USA tells me that Russia will not be on the side of the Beast, but, instead, it will be combating the Beast. I am not saying that the USA is the part of the Beast. The USA has a fatal misfortune to have a Muslim-in-Chief who is a very, very prominent figure in his relation to the Beast. Unfortunately, the USA military will do whatever the Muslim-in-Chief will tell them to do, and what they will do, will be contrary to the interest of the USA as a Western Christian country.


So, it is possible that Russia will be one of those “seven shepherds and eight princely men” in Micah 5:5 who will combat the Assyrian (the Antichrist). It is possible that Russia will invade Italy and Europe, but only in order to liberate them from the Beast.

 

To Mario:

Thank you very much for your greeting. I am not very familiar with this forum, so I even do not know how to start a new thread and where this subforum ”Signs of the Time” is. If you give me some instructions, I will greatly appreciate it. I have a lot of material on the Beast and on the Islamic Antichrist. If people in this forum are interested, I will be happy to share my material. Focus of my area is not a distant future, but the immediate future, not even three years from now. Yes, it is that close!


May our Blessed Mother of God protect us all!

 

To Fatima:

I posted my last comment as my reply to your previous comment, and not the last one. I thank you for the link that you presented in your last comment. I need some time to go through this article. Then, I will post my reply.

Thank you very much for the link.

 

To: John and Fatima

I apologize for thinking that the comment from John was the comment from Fatima. So, my last comment concerning the term “the Antichrist” and concerning the “beasts” and “a false prophet” should have been addressed to John, and not to Fatima.

I humbly apologize for my mistake.

Shortly I will post my reply to the last comment of Fatima.

 

To Fatima (Part I):

(Because I cannot upload more than 1000 characters in one reply, I will make my reply in several parts)

The link that you gave to me was just indispensable. As far as I am concerned, the material posted on that website is the first-class material.

So, let us see what our Lady of Fatima EXACTLY said:

First of all, I will ask you to pay attention to what our Lady of Fatima EXACTLY said. We should pay attention to her EXACT words, not adding anything to or subtracting anything from her words.

Second, I want to mention that there were numerous apparitions of our Holy Mother to the Eastern Orthodox Christians. There were numerous apparitions of the Holy Virgin in Russia, to the Russian people.

Now, with that said, we will go through the articles on that website and we will compare comments in the articles with the EXACT command of our Lady of Fatima.

That is absolutely correct. From the beginning of the Christianity, ALL early Christian Churches recognized the Bishops of Rome as “first among equals”, because the Church of Rome was founded by Peter and Paul. When the Bishops of Rome started to insist on their “primacy of jurisdiction over all the Patriarchs, Cardinals, and bishops of the Church”, ALL other Churches refused and the schism took place in 1054 AD.


The article continues:

Now, I want you to go back to the EXACT words of our Lady of Fatima and read them again. Did our Lady of Fatima told anything about “the conversion of Russia to the Catholic Faith”? No, she did not! She told about the “consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart”!

And Russia does not need to convert to the faith that it has been confessing for more than a 1,000 years. To illustrate what I mean by that, I will introduce a hypothetical scenario:

Let us assume that there are John and Bill. Each of them is holding the identical glass filled with the same brand of orange juice, and each of them is drinking this juice. John’s glass with the orange juice has a label: “A liquid obtained by squeezing oranges”. Bill’s glass has a label: “A liquid rich with vitamin C, obtained by squeezing a citrus fruit”. Let us assume that, for some reasons, John does not like a label on Bill’s glass and wants Bill to accept his label. Bill refuses and it makes John upset.

But, as William Shakespeare famously said: “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet”. My point is that there is NO difference between the Roman Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church. All theological doctrines, all practices and customs, like venerating the Holy Mother and the saints, of the Roman Catholic Church are the theological doctrines and practices of Russian Orthodox Church. If one wants to know what the Russian Orthodox faith is, he needs to take a good look at the Roman Catholic Church, and, if one wants to know what the Roman Catholic faith is, he needs to take a good look at the Russian Orthodox Church. Of course, the Russian Orthodox Church does not have a doctrine of infallibility of the Popes, but it is not the cornerstone doctrine like the doctrine of the Trinity.

Moreover, ALL Eastern Orthodox Churches are called Eastern Orthodox Catholic Churches:

(to be continued)

 

To Fatima (Part II):

The term “catholic” means orthodoxy or teaching of Jesus Christ and His Apostles universally accepted by all Eastern Orthodox Churches. In fact, the head of many Eastern Orthodox Catholic Churches was called “Catholicos”. This was the case with the Georgian Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, Armenian Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church and others.

Below is The Symbol of Faith recited in the Russian Orthodox Catholic Churches and in ALL Eastern Orthodox Catholic Churces:

So, there is no need to convert the Russian Orthodox Catholic Church to the faith that it was converted more than a millennium ago.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, it was an unprecedented revival of Christian faith in Russia. Thousands and thousands of magnificent Churches and Cathedrals were rebuilt. These Churches and Cathedrals are filled with people. Sometimes there are so many people that the worship is held outside the Churches in the surrounding squares. Russian Orthodox priests did unprecedented job in reviving the Christian faith and in teaching and preaching to the Russian people. The Russian people recite the Symbol of faith and prayers and sing the Church hymns by heart. It was unthinkable in the former Soviet Union. When I watch video clips from Russian Churches, I cry with joy, and I cannot stop weeping.


With that said, let us again take a look at the article:

Now, I want you to go back to the EXACT words of our Lady of Fatima and read them again. Did our Lady of Fatima told anything about necessity of the Russian Orthodox Church to accept “the Papal Primacy”? No, she did not!

If the Holy Mother wanted the Russian Orthodox Church to accept the Papal Primacy, she would appear to the Russian Orthodox people and to its clergy and she would command THEM to do it. If the Holy Mother commands something to the Popes only, it means that the implementation of her command depends on the compliance of the Popes only. I would ask you to keep in mind this very important point.

From the very start of the schism in 1054, the heads of ALL Eastern Orthodox Churches, including the Patriarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church, told that they will reunite with the Roman Catholic Church, if the Popes drop their insistence on the Papal Primacy and accept the status of the Popes as "first among equals", the status that the Popes hold for centuries before the schism. And ALL Eastern Orthodox Churches, including the Patriarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church, say the same thing now.

So, how Russia could be converted to the Immaculate Heart of our Lady of Fatima? If the Popes of Rome dropped their insistence on the Papal Primacy and accepted the status of the Popes as "first among equals", the status that the Popes hold for centuries before the schism, the two lungs of the Christian Church, the Western and the Eastern lungs, will be reunited in one body. The Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church would be happy to join the Pope of Rome and all the bishops and cardinals of One Christian Church in consecrating of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of our Lady of Fatima.

Our Lady of Fatima essentially commanded the Popes to unite the Christian Church back to one body as it was centuries before the schism. Why did she command it to the Popes, and not to the heads of Eastern Orthodox Churches, including the Patriarch of Russia? Because it depended NOT on the heads of Eastern Orthodox Churches, it depended on the compliance of the Popes ONLY.

Our Lady of Fatima told to the Popes: “Sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray.” If the Popes “sacrificed themselves” by sacrificing their demand for the Papal Supremacy, The Roman Catholic Church and ALL Eastern Christian Churches would be reunited in One Christian Church, and Russia would be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of our Lady of Fatima a long, long ago.

Russia could be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of our Lady of Fatima in 1917, 1929 and in all the following years. In fact, Russia can be consecrated today. It depends only and only on the Pope! That is why our Lady of Fatima gave her command to the Pope.

Starting from 1917, the communists ruthlessly killed thousands and thousands of Russian Orthodox priests, and much more priests were imprisoned in the concentration camps. The communists destroyed thousands and thousands of Christian churches, and forbade the Russian priests to teach the word of God.

If the two lungs of the Christian Church were reunited in 1917, the communists would think twice before killing the priests and destroying the churches, because the Popes of Rome would be in a fierce opposition. The Popes of Rome would ask all the faithful to condemn the godless communist and to impose strict sanctions on them. As a result, Russia could be spared from what communist prepared for her, and the cancer of communism could be contained. Unfortunately it did not happen, and the Russian Christians were forced to drink the full cup of suffering.

(to be continued)

 

To Fatima (Part III):

During all past years and past presidencies, the USA always supported Israel. On the other hand, Communist Russia supported Muslim countries. It is not a secret that the Communist Russia did the exceptional job in stirring anti-Semitism which was already endemic in the Islamic countries. In addition to Islam, Muslim countries tend to be more socialist countries. Communist Russia was successfully spreading its errors throughout the world.

Trying to create a formidable obstacle to the USA, the Communist Russia did not realize that it was stirring up, aiding and abetting the Beast, the Islam. Arming Muslim countries with weaponry was arming the Beast with weaponry which will be used in purpose to destroy not only the Jews but also the Christianity.

At the End of Times “the good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer and various nations will be annihilated". As the Holy Scripture testifies, they will be annihilated by the Beast. But the responsibility for that must also be put on the shoulders of the Communist Russia that “spread its errors throughout the world”.

(the END of my reply to Fatima)

 

Wow.... that was allot of information! 1) The Fatima message was not about unity of the Orthodox and Roman Catholics. So you have no argument from me there. Consecration does not mean joining the one Church, it is referring to True devotion to Mary. 2) The word catholic does not mean orthodox as you stated. It is a Greek word that means 'universal'. 3) The condition for the consecration of Russia does not depend 'only' on the Pope. If you read the message again, there were two conditions [ (1) the faithful must fulfill the 5 first Saturday reparations by attending Mass, receiving Eucharist, praying the Rosary and prayers for the Holy Father and (2) the Holy Father in union with all the Bishops of the world must make the act of Consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary)]. 4) Lastly, the Beast (the Antichrist) in scripture is not in reference to Russia. The Antichrist comes after the first tribulation (Russia's annihilation of countries). I contend that Putin is not THEE Antichrist, but another puppet in the 'spirit of the Antichrist' like Mao, Hitler and Stalin. Peace!

 

Is Putin filled with the spirit of antichrist or is he more of a Judas and essential, to Gods plan? I have been thinking of this a lot lately after seeing a picture of Putin wearing a cross. If he is devout now it is a turn for him but I would argue any true devout man of faith would learn from Jesus's words to Peter in the garden. If we live by the sword we die by the sword. I understand where many stand on death and defense of themselves or families and I am sure I would do the same but Jesus would never pick up a sword. So to say Putin is a devout Christian I would say show me he is changed and not about to start the killing again with his orders. I don't see him this way. I see him as Judas about to used as a part of Gods Divone plan. Without Judus Jesus would not have been put to death so was essential to the Divine Plan. I feel Putin too is a part of the Plan for chastisement to the world. Now we know at the late hour and the height of destruction from the spread of communism, Russia will be consecrated to Our Mothers immaculate heart and then maybe, and hopefully, unlike Judas, Putin will convert too and ask for forgiveness in the Warning but only God knows the fate of any of us during and after that event.

 

For those of us old enough to remember who Putin was before he became a "saint", we are not fooled by his tactics to present himself in public as a Christian. As the head of the infamous KGB he was a ruthless murderer of anyone who stood in his way. He went underground after the temporary collapse of his empire. He, nor any of his henchmen, were ever tried for their atrocities to mankind, they just went 'underground' with their evil. He still kills state controlled news reporters who do not present the picture that Putin wants to paint. Or, they just go missing. Now with weak Obama in office he knows it is time for him to rear his ugly head again. He's got his soldiers on the border as we speak: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/world/europe/ukraine.html?hp&_r=0 . Does anyone really think he has changed his colors from his KGB day's, by wearing a cross? No he is not a Judas, as he was never chosen for good and turned evil. Putin has always been evil and has extensive blood on his hands. He will fulfill Our Lady of Fatima's prophecy, as well as, Blessed Elena's prophecy on Russia. We must pray about this.

 

To Fatima:

First of all, I did not say that the word “catholic” just means orthodoxy. I said that it means that teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles universally accepted by all early Christian Churches. I highlighted the word “universally”. Strict adherence to the teaching of Jesus Christ and His Apostles is called the orthodoxy. Both Eastern Orthodox Christians and Catholic Christians strictly adhere to this teaching.


You wrote:

Russia is already truly devoted to Mary. Our devotion to Mary is not less than your devotion to Mary. You are just assuming that your way of expressing your devotion to Holy Mary is the only true way. We regularly attend Liturgy and receive Eucharist (not just the body of Christ, but also His blood). Every Liturgy includes expressed veneration of the Blessed Virgin and devotion to her.


You wrote:
“

So, you said that Fatima’s message was not about unity of the Orthodox and Roman Catholics, but, at the same time, the Pope in union with all the Bishops of the world must make the act of Consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

So, it seems very much that Fatima’s message is EXACTLY about this unity of the Orthodox and Roman Catholics.

Was the Pope able to consecrate Russia without this unity? No! And he will never be able to do it without this unity!

Now, can you accept for a moment that our Lady of Fatima gave to the Pope the command which was impossible to obey? Can you? No!

Our Lady of Fatima gave to the Pope the command which was possible to carry out even in 1917. Why the Blessed Mary gave this command to the Pope, and how it was possible to implement, I’ve already explained in my previous comment.

If you insist that Russia need to do this and Russia need to do that (before the command may be implemented), then I must tell to you that it will never happen, plain and simple. This automatically means that our Lady of Fatima gave the command which was impossible to implement, and THAT could never happen. Just think about this!


You wrote:

Who told you that the Beast in the Scripture is reference to Russia? Not me! I never said that. I said that the Beast in the Scripture is reference to Islam, not Russia.

In my previous comments I also said that the Beast is entity, representing Islam. The Beast is not the Antichrist.


You wrote:

I contend that too. Putin is not the Antichrist, he could not possibly be the Antichrist! But I will tell you a secret: Putin knows the Antichrist and he deeply despises him. One more secret: the Antichrist does not speak Russian, he speaks English and can recite the Quran in pure Arabic.


You wrote:

May I ask you how do you know that? I contend that you do not know that from the Bible, because the Scripture does not say so. The Scripture says something totally different from what you just said.


Peace

 

He has a lot of blood on his hands yes Fatima but you are suggesting that even the most hardened sinner can't repent and be forgiven. I agree with you and what will go down with him but you can't speak to certainties on people that you do not know what is or will be on their hearts. We are not the judge here. That is between he and God. And even if he does continue to get more blood on his hands we do not know what could become of him later in life when he goes through the warning. Judas has the blood of Christ on his hands. No he did not nail him to the cross but he might as well have. Trust me I am not on team Putin but I will also not judge another or talk about them or their fate with certainty is all I am saying.

 

Concerned. Are you suggesting you know the antichrist or are you just saying Putin knows and it is some secret. If you know of some secret then I say why make it secret? Do tell us what you know.

 

Doesn't the antichrist emerge on the scene after a terrible war and is seen as a world hero and savior. He is loved by everyone and then shows his true colors by desecrating the throne and declaring himself the Messiah. The abomination of desolation.