I could not disagree more and I even brought this similar concept of God up yesterday after confession while still in the confessional with the priest. Let me back up a bit. On Friday I was reading comments on something that for a brief period of time just wrecked me. The comment was that it did not matter how many rosaries you said or chaplets or prayers for people you made if you were in a state of sin with God they did no use. This exact comment reminds of what you just said about the path of lies does not lead us to God. If Medj is false I do not and will not ever believe that fruits from the falsehood would not matter for or to God. How limited do you think God is? How could you think that God would turn away the fruits and the prayers because of the deception? If anything I see it as the opposite. God gathers up those fruits with pleasure and they are a great gift and grace to come from an evil source. It would be God besting the devil and his plan yet again as He always does and always will. When I said the comment I read to the priest he looked me in the eye and could see my confussion and despair and said one thing. "That is not my God!" How simple of a statement and how true. I would or could never make such a bold statement as to assume to know what and/or who God accepts no matter how the path started.
The wise Christian should trust the rich and powerful in this world as much as a little mouse trusts a smiling cat, safe in the knowledge that the smiling cat will have her for his supper at the very first chance he gets.
OBAMA http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/26/obamas-call-close-holy-see-embassy-slap-face-catho/ PUTIN http://catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=53313
God is not limited, we are limited, and when I talk about God, it is my limited human understanding. I speak what we humans should do, because I can not influence the decisions of God. God already knows whether Medjugorje is false or not, we humans obviously need help to understand the truth about things that are beyond our sphere of rational thinking. According to you it would be all right to believe in the golden ox, because God is so wide that understands that we limited people believing in a golden ox actually believe in God. "For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God," remember this sometimes, and do not put your own consideration in front of the holy Scriptures.
I am not suggesting in believing in after knowing the truth on the matter. I am saying that God would not discredit the fruits that have been coming from this up until the truth has been revealed by the church. I will be obedient to the church and the Pope's decision whatever it may be but I will never say that God would not accept the fruits and the glory so many have offered up to God because of their pilgrimages to Medj. Many have been changed for the good for God after coming from Medj. Many have followed the pillars of confession, fasting, prayer, rosary, comunion ever since medj. I just can't see this many prayers and changes all for nothing if this gets declared to be false. i still feel that God would accept the fruits because in the minds and actions of the people who have experienced something at or from Medj they were giving all the glory to Him...The I AM the Almighty Father. I am not saying that anyone believed in the golden ox so no it is not according to me just a lack of understanding in what I am saying or how I responded I guess.
O sorry, this thread is about Medjugorje.... I become completely confused with all those threads... We can continue the battle....
I had to leave for mass, but on my way I was thinking that perhaps they were trying to hypnotize each other....
We can not know what will and how God will act, and we can not say anything about it, not even assume anything. God's providence is something inexpressible to our human minds. Only God can know if someone is righteous, and therefore is not for us humans to judge who is a true believer, or who believes erroneously. Is it all the same, according to Scripture is not the same, and I believe in it. If Medjugorje is false, then it is in some way a golden ox. What was the Almighty Father did last time with those who believe in the golden ox? I fear for your souls, and I pray for them.
Dear, dear Rino; And can you see how you are judging those of us on this forum who have experienced personal fruit from Medjugorje? Time is too short to waste in this way.
Rino, It remains to be seen who has had the blinders on. As the old saying goes, don't count your chickens before they hatch.
You're all right, for the sake of my community I hope that you will continue to come to Medjugorje and leave here the fruits of your labor, because my community lives from you. Thank you very much for your patience, you are the bread that we eat. I see that your faith is right, you've convinced me. Rino Vegar
That's right, listen to Rino. If you go at the right time of year, spring is best, the air is wonderfully fresh, the temperature is pleasant, the drinking water is crystal clear, the local wine and beer is very good and not very expensive. There is a mountain that can be ascended easily by any reasonably fit person, which provides great exercise and the views are pretty. The locals are very pleasant and have a great sense of humour. There are lots of reasonably priced places to stay, your fellow guests are invariably pleasant and from a variety of countries and you can travel there fairly easily. There are some great sites to see within reasonable distance. So even if you're not Catholic, it's a great place to go. If you are a Catholic, it gets even better, confession is virtually 'on tap' and Mass is said several times a day. The Rosary is recited each day together by thousands of people and the Litany of Loreto is sung in Croat (wonderful). If Our Lady is there, it's a wonderful bonus, if not you will be fitter, more relaxed, have met some great people and you will have had a spiritual boost. What's not to like?
I am honestly curious Rino , I'll ask once again, if Rome did happen (who knows?) to come down in favour of the village would you obedient to Rome's decision? It's just you are so very,very firm in your conviction , it might be hard for you to stay silent?
I've already said, I am so far been obedient member of the flock. The main difference between you and me is the level of knowledge, I already know what the decision is, while you can only guess its contents. In light of that I can say, Whatever decision is, I'll still be obedient member of the flock. Although such a statement could be imposed without any knowledge, because the believer is not required to believe in any private apparitions. But again, we're going in circles.
What do you think we do, once we have visited Medjugorje and return home (and we even do not go to Medjugorje every year) .... You think, once back at home, we adore the GOLDEN OX ? No, we go to the Holy Catholic Church, we do what the Holy Church is asking from us. Or do you consider the Holy Cathollic Church as a Golden Ox ? How does it come that you speak about a golden ox with respect to Medjugorje ? I really cannot follow. And what about this: "When something does not come from God, it will not survive longtime". Medjugorje "survives" already approximately 33 years.... You can continue fearing for the souls of those who never go to Church, who deny God or those who live in sin. But how is it possible that you fear for our souls ? This is completely absurd. Sorry again.
What is a long Time, Buddhism exists a long time, Islam too, Hinduism too. I know what I believe, do you know what is your religion. I find it hard to explain things in a foreign language, but does not tell you in the book "do not brags with good works, but be repent for the bad ones." Does insubordinate sheep should repent, that God would forgave her sins. I do not see the sheep repent, I see only excuses. But I'm only human, and not for me to judge others.
