Smudger, Greetings and welcome! The married, divorced, and civilly re-married are committing objectively grave sin. This is now commonplace and much of the blame lies with the Church Herself. My personal experience indicates that the sexual revolution ran rampant in the Church in part, because of lack of proper formation and confessors who wrongly exalted "primacy of conscience" when addressing Humane Vitae to penitents. Here we are 50 years later with a huge problem on our hands. So for me the critical point is not the denial of mortal sin, but rather, the ignorance of Church teaching. You are true to assert that many civilly re-married Catholics whose sacramental marriages were not annulled may be receiving Holy Communion without committing mortal sin due to lack of formation- they do not know their choice to receive is grievous. But the reception is an abomination in the eyes of God! And the pastoral approach the Argentine and now German bishops seem to be embracing ignores this reality. Would you not agree that part of the accompaniment Pope Francis has stressed, should reveal to the couple that the objective reality of their second union is morally unacceptable? If so, then they will no longer be ignorant and should realize they cannot approach the altar. Isn't that why St. John Paul II, primarily for the sake of children associated with the second union, required refraining completely from the marriage act as a prerequisite for reception of Holy Communion? You say Pope Francis has done it because he knows there are people who will not be in a state of mortal sin, and he knows that they desire to live in love with God even if certain circumastances (eg children in the second marriage) dont allow for a perfect situation to arise. Please tell me how St. John Paul II's allowance fails to address the situation adequately? Safe in the Barque of Peter!
Then who were your comments directed at? While it may take a Cardinal to have the authority or knowledge of procedure to request clarity, it isn't forbidden for us pew sitters to expect clarity from Peter's successor.
Very well put Dolours and I agree! I also agree with Julia. I really don't know how to articulate this correctly. But I'll give it a shot. The sins that have been accumulating in the church for the last 60 years and possibly over many centuries, occuring repeatedly and it seems with ever increasing vigor! while many an ecclesiatical blind eye has turned away, yet knowing full well that Catholics ignore Humanae Vitae, dismiss Catholic doctrine, continue to break all 10 commandments in every aspect of interpretation, practice sins that breach all manner of moral decency and this is just a tiny reflection of the larger world in which we live. We live in a world of madness! Our Holy Father inhertied a more decadent and selfish world than any previous Pope and yes it seems he is making a dogs breakfast of it! But what person in there right mind would want his Job? I feel so sorry for him. I realise the holy Father must do something but Short of declaring the whole world morally uninhabitable for genuine Catholics and demanding that the civil powers of the world give him a large island for all genuine Catholics to live on!....... the only alternative would be for Pope Francis to retract the AL and put forth a clear and concise encyclical on all the above contentious matters (you mention) maybe then he would force those catholics that oppose Catholic truths to schism but I’m more inclined to believe that the church would just continue with the same old same old; everybody just turning blind eyes as before! Either way its a pickle.....a schism or a return to the same old. Much prayer needed. Lord have Mercy on us.
I don't expect Pope Francis to do much in this matter..... Then he would measure up to his predecessors. And, again, much will be "enhanced" after the Warning! http://www.motherofallpeoples.com/author/mark-miravalle/ http://www.mysticpost.com/2016/09/r...ng-and-in-my-opinion-is-absolutely-authentic/
Since, Christmas has passed, it is time to enter the foray. To throw this bomb on Christmas Day was to read. I understand how easy it is to reach this very extreme conclusion. But I don't see how this can help the church...in these dark days. Intent and reading of the soul... is the very heart of the issue. And nobody, except God, has the answer. Smudger gets to the heart of the issue. Pope John Paul II in Crossing the Thershold of Hope: " Who will these be [in hell]? The Church has never made any pronouncement in this regard. This is a mystery, truly inscrutable, which embraces the holiness of God and the conscience of man. The silence of the Church is, therefore, the only appropriate position for Christian faith. Even when Jesus says of Judas, the traitor, "It would be better for that man if he had never been born" (Mt 26:24), His words do not allude for certain to eternal damnation." This quote from John Paul 2 gets to the heart of the debate. Also, what is the greater sin? Mother Thersa stealing a pencil or a couple who have remarried? I would argue Mother Teresa stealing a pencil because she has greater knowledge of God. Some of us are so caught up in communion to divorced people. It blurs true knowledge of sin. If all other sins can be forgiven...for example abortion, murder, sexual perversion. Then why can't divorced people have a path to communion? And they currently do have a path to communion. So, nothing has really changed. Yes, there will be a few that state, I got divorced and followed rules of the church. And to you I state...your reward will be in heaven. (Hopefully, I will see the back of your head while you stand at the top of the mountain. As long as I get to the mountain) There are many rooms in heaven. Let's try to see the bigger picture. Divorcing and remarrying is NOT the worst sin possible. Giving up ones soul with full acceptance and knowledge is. And I will say there is a lot more people then some might believe. And that would include Cardinals that would destroy the church. I will patiently wait for the African Cardinals response. I think this is more... then just about the divorced and remarried. It is about the reform of the old gaurd at the Vatican. Power and Money May Gods Will be Done
Interesting that you say divorce is not the worst sin in the world. Despite the evidence to the contrary of its devastating impact on children and any innocent spouses that are involved, Perhaps, this is why God declared 'I hate divorce'. "For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. "To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. "So guard your heart; do not be unfaithful to your wife."
Just one mortal sin on the soul at death leads to eternal hell, as it deprives one of sanctifying grace. The Church teaching on divorce and remarriage is not subjective, either from Christ specific teaching on this issue or the Churches consistent teaching. I think what is being challenged is sin itself. There seems to be confusion on the part of some clergy and laity on what constitutes sin. It seems to me that many clergy today think that all one has to do is speak too social justice issues, help the poor and that is where salvation comes from and in doing so, doctrines are rigidity and get in the way of loving the poor. It is an 'either or' proposition in many minds today. Its as if one lives the black and white of the faith they cannot love the poor or cannot see God's love for those in desperate situations. One can find extreme's on both ends, but this should not define orthodox Catholics any more than one should conclude that all social justice minds are apart from wanting to live the doctrines of the faith. St. Mother Teresa is a prime example of someone that lived both the social and orthodox calling. Love consists not only in helping the poor, but living and teaching the unchanging truths of the faith as well.
I felt sorry for Pope Francis in the beginning of his Papacy. I thought he was drawing out into the open all the heterodox people with influence in the Church so that he could clean house. I'm afraid to say that it gradually dawned on me that he was one of them, and now I'm all but totally convinced of it. I don't feel particularly sorry for him. Nobody forced him into the Papacy. His friends conspired to put him there in direct disobedience to the reigning Pope. One of them, Cardinal Daneels even boasted about it in his book. I was struck by a comment made by an American priest on the controversy surrounding his spat with his superiors when he was a young priest in Argentina. That priest said that it wasn't so much Fr. Bergoglio who was the problem as his followers. People now claim that the problem isn't Pope Francis but his inner circle. It brings to mind the old saying "show me your company and I'll show you what you are". The German bishops had already threatened schism from the primacy of Rome. They also objected to their choice of candidates for bishop being rejected by Rome on the grounds that they (the bishops) believed that the candidates' academic qualifications in theology was at least as important if not more important than adherence to Doctrine. The Church is already in schism from Christ's teaching. So far, the Holy Spirit and the Pope's uncertainty about his grounds for AL has prevented him from actually writing heresy into an official document. I believe that the Holy Spirit is using the four Cardinals to press the Pope into either re-affirming Doctrine through a clarification of the Dubia or to expose himself as preaching heresy. I hope and pray that he will issue the clarification and re-affirm Church Doctrine in doing so. Failure to respond to the dubia would signal that he knows he is enabling heresy but isn't honest enough to admit it.
Right, do chopping up little babies inside your own womb...is not a greater sin. Even animals would die before giving up ones baby. As for consequences...abortion may have killed some of our greatest saints.
No one is arguing bad priests who put social issues a head of Catholic teachings. That is there mistake. And we have to suffer from it. Social issues are eradicated when Christian doctrine is followed. Brother al
Wow! Very insightful FS. I have often wondered: "Where are all of the St. Padre Pio's and St. John Vianney's of our day?" Wouldn't that be a perfect judgement for all of our great crimes. That we killed off the very souls who God would send us as guides.
Thank you. This nonsense being bandied about as "church teaching," that grave sin is not mortal sin if committed with full knowledge and consent, is indeed foolhardy diabolic disorientation.
For me, and I assume for many here, this is not about rating which sin is worse. It is about discussing something very serious which is going on in the church. I can understand why the cardinals would ask for clarification, this puts many things up for debate and requires an answer now that the question has been proposed and has been made public.
As do I. But I think you should inset the word "publicly" between your words "to" and "admit". Dear Lady, Pure Intercessor without guile, look at the anguish of our hearts and ask Jesus to touch the heart of His Vicar to bring clarity. Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!
Fallen Saint, An essential ingredient of such a path is repentance which makes mercy a living reality. But remember. Confession always requires a firm purpose of amendment. Such firm purpose should require abstaining from the marriage act, right? Safe in the Barque of Peter!
grave sin is only mortal sin when the two other aspects are present. Sin of grave matter is not mortal sin unless full knowledge and full consent are present. That is Catholic teaching whether you like it or not. A simple question to anyone who is against Pope Francis on this matter: Is every person in an invalid marriage committing mortal sin. Yes or No?
It seems clear to me that 500 years ago the church went through a horrible period where private interpretation of scripture became the predominate error. It seems today it is the error of private interpretation of what sin is that is in question. The one thing I treasure about the Catholic faith founded by Jesus himself is that its teachings on faith and morals are unchangeable and eternal. Jesus established a teaching authority and not even a Pope can change what has been handed on and taught by the church for 2000 years. Church disciplines can and do change, but Church doctrine cannot. Divorce concerns church doctrine, not church discipline.
Wrong. The administration of the Blessed Sacrament is under the authority of the Pope. Pope Francis has never suggested he will allow second marriages. If you say you accept the eternal teaching on faith and morals then you cant pick and choose which pope to accept. They all are "Peter" in their particular time
