Has Russia been Consecrated-Excellent read!

That about sums it up Fatima. You either believe what JPII actually said . And take the next right step and continue to pray for the consecration.

Or you run with Bertone, or the ridiculous Fr Fox. And hinder The Blessed Virgins peace plan.

As can be seen above, this departure from his prepared speech was printed in the Pope's own newspaper the following day on March 26, 1984.

Obviously the Pope knows Our Lady is still waiting for the Pope together with the Catholic bishops to consecrate certain peoples to Her, that is, the peoples of Russia.

Although Fr. Fox claims to be a loyalist to the Pope and Our Lady, he continuously fails to report these very words that Pope John Paul II pronounced so publicly on this solemn occasion!

 

What was the quote in the Paper Mac? I don't read Italian.

 

Its just the words of Pope JPIIs consecration ,where he makes clear, the consecration has not been performed.
Yet so many insist they know better. And somehow think they are being obedient .

As can be seen above, this departure from his prepared speech was printed in the Pope's own newspaper the following day on March 26, 1984.

...departed from his prepared text to add the words (highlighted above): "Enlighten especially the peoples of which You are awaiting our consecration and our confiding."

 

I was confused about this myself a couple of years ago. I always believed , as did my father and mother and all Traditionalists ,that the Consecration had not taken place.

However the arguments in favour of the event having happened were so strong I began to question.

So I went to Our Lady in prayer an was given this scripture.

Genesis 22

Abraham Tested
22 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”

“Here I am,” he replied.


2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”


3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and loaded his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”


6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, “Father?”

“Yes, my son?” Abraham replied.

“The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?”


8 Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together.


9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!”

“Here I am,” he replied.


12 “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”


13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The Lord Will Provide. And to this day it is said, “On the mountain of the Lord it will be provided.”


15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”


19 Then Abraham returned to his servants, and they set off together for Beersheba. And Abraham stayed in Beersheba.

We, as a Church have been tested and failed the test. It is all about Faith and stepping out in Faith.

We must look at this in the Light of Faith. If we look at it in a human sense we will not see.

We must step out in Faith.

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Hmm, the saying "Where reasoned argument fails, ridicule is a last resort" comes to mind here.

The endless postings on this matter are quite futile as the actual arguments have been well aired on this forum many times and there seems no point in repeating the same thing over and over again.

I just wanted to recommend Charlie Johnston's latest. I didn't agree with everything in his earlier posting about the Consecration but in today's piece I think he sums up accurately where we are at the moment and where things are likely to go in the near future:
https://charliej373.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/the-challenge-of-the-new-year/

 

I just thought there would be little interest in reasoned arguement ,so to save time I thought the word 'ridiculous' had him covered.

Fr Fox has a witness right here...Maria do Fetal: Fr. Fox's star witness. When Fr. Fox began his campaign in 1989 claiming that the consecration of Russia is done and that Gorbachev and the changes in Russia are the beginning of the triumph of Our Lady, he relied upon his star witness.
She lasted from August 1989 to early 1990 when she admitted to Father Pierre Caillon that she "invented" her stories regarding Sister Lucy and the Consecration of Russia.

Since then she has stayed out of the limelight and not given any interviews. Fox would be well advised to follow her example. Instead of doing this, he continues his campaign of disinformation against the consecration of Russia.

 

As for Charlies latest article , about the overtly pious who treat with bitterness those who do not share their view,is he talking about himself?


Charlie...'smacks of the worst sort of disobedience. It is not Catholic at all, just a subtle form of protestant dissent, claiming to be more Catholic than the Pope united with the bishops of the world.'

 

I am not going to continue to defend/argue whether the Consecration to Russia has been fullfilled or not. It does not bring peace. It will all be manifested soon enough. I don't feel it is the will of God to argue endlessly about the 3rd secret of Fatima or the Consecration of Russia. What has been said, has been said. Time for penance and prayer. The diabolical disorientation is well under way and unless we submit to prayer, instead of argumentation, we will be lost in the confusion ourselves. I respect Charlie and his apostolate. I don't have to agree with him on everything. He may be right on everything he say's for all I know, or he could be wrong on some finer points too. He's a good man and a good God fearing disciple of the Lord.

 

I agree with all of that Fatima!! Well said.

 

Hey ,its not like I started the thread ,or just wrote a blog on the consecration of Russia.
People will always talk about this.
But I do understand most members here have had a gutsful of the topic. I will try to leave it alone also.

And now my turn to play prophet. I bet someone [other than me]starts another Fatima thread in the next 6 weeks.

 

Well, ..... for any or all's discernment.....Latest Message from Msgr Esseff's directed locutionist at "Locutions to the World":

Russia Will be Consecrated in 2016

http://www.locutions.org/category/time-and-eternity/page/2/

Mary

The decisions are made. The story of this year is written. The book is closed, only to open quickly. Time does not stop, not for a single moment, like an unending stream. Mankind lives one moment at a time, able to see the past and experience the present, but incapable of seeing what lies ahead in 2015.

This year will be filled with wrong roads and terrible decisions, all because man’s heart is so separated from God’s will. A rude awakening awaits. Severe jolts of great warnings. Who will heed the message? Who will even know the message? That is why I speak. What good are chastisements unless accompanied by a message that shows the way to mercy?

The chastisements will come, inflicted by man himself, who holds great destructive powers in his grasp. Some of these will be warning blasts which signal deeper troubles ahead. In the long series of these events, there will always be my clear voice, showing the way. During 2015, my voice will grow much stronger. The urgency of my message will be seen. However, Russia will not be consecrated to my Immaculate Heart. Even so, as these events occur, a great stirring will begin in the Church which will prepare for Russia’s consecration in 2016.

Comment: Our Lady has often spoken about Russia’s consecration but this is the first time she has given any date.

 

The Consecration, performed in 1984, while not exactly as requested, was declared by Sr Lucia as accepted by Heaven. Here is her letter: https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/Fatima1984.htm

While it is unlikely that every single bishop joined the Pope , we know that Bishop Hnilica managed to get inside St Basil's at the Kremlin and make the consecration during a secret Mass, with the script tucked into a copy of 'Pravda'. The fascinating story of this (which was accompanied by miracles enabling him to get into Russia and the church itself) is here (you'll need to scroll down until you find the story): http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/ttindalr/hnilica.htm

A couple of days after the consecration, which was made on 13th May 1984 (the Feast of OL Fatima), there was a tremendous explosion in a Soviet arms depot which destroyed a large number of weapons, leaving their Northern Fleet vulnerable, and is believed to have forced the Soviets to the negotiating table. This incident is not widely known, but as it happened about 17th May (some say the fire began on 13th) it's interesting in its timing. http://redbannernorthernfleet.blogspot.co.uk/2008/05/soviet-naval-disaster-of-day.html
This incident deserves far more publicity than it gets - the fact that it happened, and that it happened within hours of 13th May 1984.

The falling of the Berlin wall and the accession of President Gorbachev would shortly signal the end of the Soviet era. These followed on from the events of 1984.

I was in Ukraine in 2012, visiting cities on the Black Sea, including Odessa and Sevastopol. There are many renovated and new churches, their gold domes gleaming. While it's not obvious that there is a religious revival going in in Russia, growth is there. Fr Andrew Apostoli, a Fatima expert, believes that the 1984 consecration was valid, and that the conversion of Russia also depends on people making the Five First Saturdays, as requested by Our Lady to Sr Lucia. Not enough of us are doing this!

FWIW, I don't think there would be any harm in the present Holy Father repeating the consecration, as so many people are not convinced of the validity of the last one. He could make it every year, as far as I'm concerned. BUT it still does not substitute for the need for the First Saturday devotion.

 

There is an interesting message given to, I believe, Fr. Gobbi, where it is explained that heaven understood the human restrictions at the time JPII made the consecration of the world in 1984 (which was really a repeat of the similar one done in 1982 with a bit more) and so it wasn't rejected. Because of the Pope's attempt to do what he could at the time our Lady said that she would remove an impediment to the full consecration of Russia itself. And this was done in 1987 where Solidarity in Poland, with the encouragement of JPII, began the effort that took down the Soviet Union in 1989, removing that impediment which included the agreement between the Vatican and the Soviet Union re: Catholics living within the Soviet Union and their persecution. Also people seem to equate the Soviet Union with Russia which was not in existence at the time Fatima mentioned specifically Russia as being the real source of atheistic Communism....which began in the same year, 1917, with the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. Now, without that impediment of the prior agreement of the Vatican with the Soviet Union, existing in 1984, and with Russia now re-inventing itself with its aggressive attempts against the West as well as its diabolical influence in the Middle East, backing Iran and Syria, it would be the time to make this full Consecration, with Russia now by name, for the full effect of the promise given by our Lady of Fatima.....and it would fulfill that prescient mention of it being done, BUT LATE. Thus, this "late" time of worldwide horrors like no other, will more than likely force a cry for this full Consecration as the increasing suffering (and the Bishops due to probable increased persecution of the Church/Christians everywhere) becomes desperate for Heaven's help as man sees himself more and more helpless everywhere. It is too bad that human nature always seems to try to find a way around the exact instructions from heaven for their own good, rather than give full trust and obedience, even trusting beyond human considerations and concerns of the times. If that would have happened decades ago we would be benefitting from the graces promised for true peace rather than the increasing misery in which the world finds itself today. The Church still has this mission to complete for the sake of humanity, esp. the faithful.

 

Hmmm.....from the latest messages from "Locutions to the World" via Msgr Esseff, the spiritual director for the Locutionist:

Jan. 10: The Fatima Messenger

Mary

Can I not lift up this little voice of locutions and make it my voice of Fatima? That is exactly what I must do because the voice of Fatima has been silenced. I will find other ears and other hearts, which cherish this message and look to this voice of the locutions with the greatest desires. Let me begin.

Nearly 100 years ago, when the Great War was at its height, I came with a sorrowful heart, but one filled with hope. The heavenly Father had sent me to announce great promises. I had chosen three perfect messengers to receive the gift, knowing that their child-like faith would overcome all the difficulties. The messages would be received and proclaimed.

The great gift was sealed on October 13, 1917, a public sign, recorded in all its aspect and proclaimed by even the secular press. What a history since then! The great treasure has been in a perilous stream, looked at, examined, set aside, and limited, but never opened. Speculation, controversy, books written and debates, but the gift never opened.

I say all this because I want to reveal my actions. I have taken the Fatima gift and I have placed it in the heart of my priest son. He knows his call fully. Long ago he accepted the gift and ever since then has dedicated himself to it. Now, a great urgency arises in his heart. He can see the events happening which he knew would come first. He knows the time is short. Pray for him. He is my Fatima messenger.

Comment: As this year 2015 unfolds, the locutions become very specific about the Fatima gift.

 

Who is "my priest son."?

 

I had a great unease reading that latest "locution" from LTTW. Whoever is behind it may be showing their hand. Is "my priest son" Father Gruner?

 

Good question since it would appear that it's other than Pope Francis who could get the ball rolling. I found another similar message from Dec. of 2013:

Mary's Priest Son:

Mary

I have spoken of the deep secrets of my heart but there is one secret that lies hidden. My deepest secret concerns my priest son who was chosen from all eternity to place the Fatima light on the lampstand.
I have openly promised that someday Russia will be consecrated to my Immaculate Heart and a period of great peace will ensue. Who will be the one who will do that? He is still hidden in my heart, protected by my greatest favors.

Only after some darkness has fallen on the earth will I bring him forth. If I brought him forth in the light, he would be rejected. When the darkness begins, the Church will be more ready to receive my light and my choice.

Know that I will use the beginning darkness for my purposes. Because of the darkness, the Church will seek the Fatima light in all its fullness. Only when the Church begins to ask, “Who can lead us to Fatima” will I bring my priest son out of the hiding of my heart.

Comment: Mary has promised that the Consecration would take place, even though it will be late.

And here are other mentions of her "priest son" being brought on the scene when the time is ready:
http://www.locutions.org/2014/05/13-the-woman-in-world-history/

http://www.locutions.org/2014/02/11-the-verge-of-darkness/

This one prior to the announcement of Pope Francis:
http://www.locutions.org/2013/03/12-the-keys-of-the-kingdom/

This one references the Pope as bringing her forth:
http://www.locutions.org/2013/03/regaining-the-first-love/

And here she calls the Pope (Francis) her priest son too:
http://www.locutions.org/2013/03/4-the-treasures-within-the-popes-heart/

and many others.

 

eta, thanks for that info. probably not setting up that Gruner is the priest son then.

 

P.S. We also have to remember that the "locutionist" is a woman who has been under the direction of Msgr Esseff (a spiritual director to Mother Theresa and her sisters in different parts of the world) who is now in his 80s with years of experience of directing souls of all levels of spiritual advancement. She is apparently in a prayer group in his parish. She had messages for quite some time before she began receiving these meant for the world. But she was instructed to have Monsignor, as her spiritual director, be the one to decide whether they were to be released under his direction. And she remains under his direction. He's a pretty amazing, holy and trustworthy priest. Here's an example of one of his latest reflections from his website:

http://www.msgrjohnesseff.net/?p=3233

 

I find something interesting in the above locution. Generally God does not give us the date in which something will take place. I also remember the same site said the pope would be killed when he visits Israel. These are just questions. I really do not know whether these are valid or not messages.