Gaza and Israel: The Start of WWIII, or an Isolated Conflict?

He's not just biased, he wants the parents of the protesters to stop funding their university education because they are opposing genocide in the only way they know how to protest effectively. He also uses other means of downplaying the reason for the protest by focusing on fringe groups that have attached themselves to the protest. Chanting "from the river to the sea", perhaps not knowing what it means doesn't make them ignorant of the evil that is genocide and ethnic cleansing. Likud in Israel claims that all the land between the Jordan and the Mediterranean is the domain of the secular State of Israel. The Israelis are occupying Palestinian land illegally according to international law. The history of heinous crimes in that land didn't begin last October. Israel is guilty of being an apartheid State and its own military officer described Gaza as an open air concentration camp. He bemoans the students' lack of knowledge but appears to be completely unaware of the possibility that it's the students and not he who are trying to respond to the law written on their hearts. Using Christianity to justify turning a blind eye to genocide is wrong no matter how much scripture we use to condemn other heinous acts.

Zionism isn't the main problem with Christians in America. The main problem is what I supppse could be called cultural Catholicism. Fr. Schmitz referred to Catholics of the older generation having taken to a kind of Deism without recognising it for what it is, and thrn passing it on to their children. If Catholics in America had been more faithful, our Bishops would have more clout and those zionistic Christians would be recognised for the marginal cult that they have always been.

Love of money is at the root of the problems in America and Europe. That's what will lead to our downfall. Return to Christ in the fullness of the Catholic faith is what will get us off our knees but it could be a long time before we get there.

Political leaders have always used the suffering of the helpless to further their own interests. There's nothing new there.

 

This kind of speech is used when people are biased. Currently it is a fashionable talking point as his video is not the only place I have heard it.

A lot of people are very, very tired of those minority groups, which have a lot of clout and never stop pushing their agendas. So when they attach themselves to these protesters it doesn't look good. As these left wing oriented groups fix themselves to this student protest movement, we will see more criticism like this and justifiably so. They cannot expect to take the support of these groups and not the criticisms.

Agreed, but they are also calling for another kind of ethnic cleansing in the Holy Land, that obviously doesn't help their cause. Which for me is a very valid criticism. Protesting genocide while chanting genocidal lines like this is just furthering conflict and division IMO.

Agree

Agree. However both sides are violent. But clearly the proportion of violence is far greater from Israel.

Yes, he is biased, he has picked his side. I don't believe he agrees with the genocide that Israel is doing, but rather sees this as Israel defending itself. This is the difference, he doesn't see it how you or I see it. Regardless, he still makes a lot of solid points IMO. I don't believe someone has to be entirely right or entirely wrong to make valid points. I especially like at the end where he says.

"None of these people, in any political movement between Taiwan, Russia, China, US, Ukraine, Israel or Hamas give one Hoot about you, but I can tell you of one person who does care for you, for you. His name is Jesus Christ"

Agree that cultural Catholicism is a huge problem in the US, but not exclusive to it. I am fairly certain this is generally a worldwide issue.

The degradation of the Church worldwide led to many problems. Yes it would have been wonderful if previous generations kept the faith and kept it genuinely.

Agree.

Exactly, so we agree that there are organizations using the genocide in Gaza to their advantage.

 

Also, Catholicism in the USA was hit right in the very heart if what is alleged about a certain "cardinal" is in fact true. (if you know, you know, what I'm referring to here) The effects of that alleged act are likely still reverberating in the "spiritual realm". I've never heard of any other country's Catholics having suffered this sort of betrayal by one of their own......How does a nation even begin to make reparation for such a thing?

 

One can only imagine Malachi Martin's face if he saw the cross that Francis wears.

 

On Vedele's cruciform medal, the owl is very evident, and that inverted smiling face doesn't go unnoticed either. But there are several versions, some more detailed than others.

 

I was thinking more of something that I first saw Ms. Barnhardt mention, that Bernadin wore the same cross. Pretty ominous.

Edit - Bernardin - I missed the second 'r'

 

Not the Americans I know. Most people I know don't watch the news. They go to certain sites that are trustworthy. I don't know where u are from but I would never judge a people pretending I know what most are feeling and believing. Don't judge by the news

 

That the pastor got something right doesn't alter the fact that he completely missed or glossed over the reason for the protest. Where are his protests against his country committing genocide against people in a far off land? Rather than blaming the parents of the students, he should be thanking God that at least some American parents have children willing to take a stand against evil even at great risk to their own future. He, rightly, blames the educators for normalising deviancy in the minds of children yet fails to acknowledge that the people funding those colleges are the strongest supporters of the genocide and of Israel. He names Soros while conveniently omitting AIPAC. What is it about Americans that you can't seem to see that the people promoting all things deviant and degenerate in your country - everything from pornography to abortion to transgenderism - are the same people funding those colleges and your politicians? Any divergence between them at election time is superficial - a means of riling up the base to keep them in power. There's a vacuum in American conservatives that's so easily filled by the far left.

He also fails to acknowledge that the reason Iran is America's enemy is that America overthrew the democratically elected Government of Iran when that government nationalised its country's oil industry. In other words, the US did the bidding of British Petroleum. The US doesn't fund Iran. On the contrary, it has used sanctions to inflict as much hardship as it could on the Iranian people. Clearly, Iran is not the axis of evil in the world today and projectionism won't change that.

All Muslim countries don't use the death penalty on gays. There's no way of knowing how a free Palestine would treat anyone because Palestine has never been free. Americans managed to eventually realise that non-whites are just as human as they are. Israelis (and their American backers) have a bit of catching up to do on the subject of what qualifies as human. I'm sure that it won't take as long for the Palestinians to manage to protect their children from deviant influences without resorting to the death penalty.

So many American conservatives are supporters of gun rights to defend their homes in case of attack. I think we all know what would happen if some native American turned up at someone's home and told the owner to shove off because that land is the rightful property of his people. There's a very good chance the native American would be pumped full of bullets. Well, that's what happens regularly to Palestinians backed by the Israeli police and IDF, armed by the USA. In a similar situation, the Texans breeding red heifers for Israel would make Hamas look like boy scouts.

Sorry to say it, but the Grand Old Flag has been soaked in innocent blood in latter years and is in danger of becoming a successor to the Butcher's Apron. Let's not forget that a lot of that innocent blood was spilled by your own young men who were deceived into believing they were fighting for something good. May God grant eternal rest to all the dead.

 

How many countries in the world have a heresy named after them? You might find interesting this article written in 1995: https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/americanism-then-and-now-10935

The problems pre-date the Cardinal. God punishes us with bad leaders. If it's any consolation to you, my own country is no better.

 

Many, many flags unfortunately have been soaked in innocent blood; many young men (and women now too) from many nations have been deceived into believing they were fighting for something good. The rule (according to Archbishop Sheen) is that the innocent always suffer for the guilty. So what's the answer upon realizing the deception? the great and now worldwide extent of that deception? Imho, it's not pointing fingers, but praying hands...

 

I've read about Americanism, but it was long ago. It always seemed to me to be a misguided attempt to try to get along with certain "forces" that were anti-Catholic to the core but slimey enough to play along with possibly naive attempts of the hierarchy to live in peace. The hierarchy was called on it, but, imo, the infiltration had already taken place.....

 

All the indications are that there will be no change in the American leadership or policy. You don't need to read CNN or watch Fox to know that genocide is happening in Palestine. It should matter very much to you that, by Israeli standards and by the actions of your own government, you are all guilty of genocide because that's the meaning of the collective guilt being used to put a moral gloss on mass murder in Palestine.

I thank God that my country isn't the world's most powerful because I fear that we would be no better. Silence makes us all guilty. "My country right or wrong" leads to terrible consequences.

 

I'm afraid it didn't go away but adapted as times changed. Unfortunately, it spread to other countries with American influence, I've been a bit unfair to America. Many countries have been worthy of giving their name to a similar heresy. Right now, I think that Germany would be the most likely candidate.

 

Yes, praying comes first always. I honestly don't know the answer beyond that but I'm fairly sure that pretending that what's staring us in the face isn't really happening or accusing those young students of being part of the problem can't be the way forward. I suppose that doubling down on our Cstholic faith is the only solution. Yes, I know that's preaching to the converted here.

Spare an extra prayer for Georgia and Armenia. Indications are that those two countries are being primed to be the next Ukraine. Incidentally, did you know that Israel gets most of its oil from Azerbeijan via Turkey (both Muslim countries.) I don't know much about Azerbeijan other than that Israel supplies them with arms in their conflict with Christian Armenia, and last I heard, beheading isn't a form of punishment in Turkey, nor is the death penalty for gays. The pastor may not be nearly as knowledgeable as he thinks he is.

 

He made many good points, I just highlighted one of them. Do you want to see more? As well, he sees Israel defending itself from Hamas backed by Iran. So he sees the student protesters by default as illegitimate. Expecting him to give credence to the student protesters when he doesn't hold their views shouldn't be expected. He is not reporting events but rather his take on events.

So you have found that he made another good point.

Again, he doesn't hold the view point that Israel is committing a genocide, but is rather defending itself, so he wont give it.

I agree that this is absurd. However he may not see AIPAC as illegitimate, I really don't know.

I think it boils down to ignorance of a large part of the populace. However people in general are catching on. Hence why they are making new legislation.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6090/text?

Agree

Given that the majority of Muslims in Palestine are Sunni, there is a high probability that at the very least, it will be treated as a serious crime.

This is very, very ignorant.

I don't like to generalize Israelis. Many of them are not in support of the genocide and are just regular people. Zionists on the other hand are something else altogether.

Can you expound further on this, I don't understand what you are getting at.

This is also very, very ignorant.

Agree, Palestinians are being forcibly displaced.

I don't think Texans in general are the people you think they are.

Yes the US has a lot of innocent blood on its hands. But as you said, young soldiers never knew the real reasons they were fighting. The average American never knew either.

 

Yes, the majority of Muslims in Palestine are Sunni. That doesn't automatically mean that the Palestinians will impose the death penalty for homosexuality. The vast majority of Turks and Jordanians are Sunni Muslims and homosexuality is not a crime there. In fact, Jordan decriminalised homosexuality about 20 years before Israel. The Palestinians in the West Bank haven't re-criminalised homosexuality and I reckon the people in Gaza will have more pressing concerns than homosexuals if they ever rid their land of the occupiers. There's certainly no indication that beheading will be part of any capital punishment, despite the pastor's implications, Shia Iran, for all its draconian laws also doesn't use beheading in capital punishment. Sunni Saudi Arabia does, but no chance of a colour revolution there due to its good relations with Israel and the US. I believe that the Saudis are not popular with Palestinians. Also, I find it strange that so few people mention the possibility of FBI/CIA/Mossad plants among the protesters - perhaps in the hope that the Muslims would attack them if they were LBGQT+ types. In fairness to the Pastor, Michael Lofton could give him a lesson on how to propagandise while giving himself plausible deniability. Lofton showed a whole clip of a trans person doing a strip act. It was hard for me to tell whether Lofton was pleased or disappointed that the Muslims didn't stone the trans person.

Homosexuality is a crime in Qatar. I don't know whether they behead people although I doubt it. Certainly no fear of a colour revolution or imposition of the Rules Based Order there because they are very closely allied to the US and have co-operated in more than a few US attacks against other countries. Hard to say whether those were part of the war on terror or the drive to spread freedom and democracy. Whatever the excuse used, a lot of innocent people died.

Qatar is also very close to the Muslim Brotherhood, and Hamas was started by a member of the Brotherhood. Hamas also has an office in Qatar, or did until very recently. They could well have been the bag man for the transfer of money from Israel/US to Hamas. Hamas is not Iran's proxy. Perhaps your preacher was confusing Hamas with Hezbollah which operates out of Lebanon? Hezbollah is an Iranian proxy. Please God, the day will never come when people like that Pastor will be on the receiving end of the kind of "defence" he excuses in Israel. He can't be unaware of the tens of thousands of deaths and the imposed starvation. What kind of Christian is that?

As to the US. If a country claims to hold as self evidently true that all men are created equal and then treats men as less than equal based solely on the man's colour, that's the same as calling the coloured man sub-human. And the US, by its actions, has endorsed Isrseli claims that the Palestinians are Human Animals. That statement alone would be a red line for any civilised country, but not the US. Yes, I know that some US States opposed slavery from the beginning, that there were amendments to the Constitution aimed at bringing equality, that slavery was the major reason for the civil war and that there were further incremental steps after that but the fact remains that it took a very, very long time to finally ensure that an end to discrimination was guaranteed to be fully enforced before and by the law., I would hope that Palestinians could manage to enact and enforce equally just laws in a shorter period of time. Actually, I'm reminded of something Laurence Wilkerson said about an encounter he had with a Bishop (he didn't recall whether Catholic or Orthodox) who told him that Christians had more problems from the Israelis than the Muslims. Wilkerson was an Assistant to Colin Powell.

Why must we not generalise against all Israelis when polls clearly show that a large majority of them (even the leader of the Opposition) support their government's genocide and ethnic cleansing cleansing of Palestinians, but it's ok to automatically assume that Palestinians will criminalise homosexuality when there is evidence that they haven't? I doubt very much that, in a free Palestine, libraries will have dedicated book reading for young children by men dressed as women and I can't imagine them copying Israel by declarimgmone of their cities the gay pride capital of the Middle East, but there's no reason to think that they are incapable of governing a free State without committing genocide. That would put them ahead of Israel for starters.

Now, I don't believe for a second that any group of Americans be they from Texas or any other State, would accept being dispossessed by anyone, backed by police and military or not, and see their people including children arrested, detained and sometimes sexually assaulted, without trial for years on end, forced to live in an open air concentration camp and labelled as human animals, and not use every means, fair or foul, at their disposal and accept help from any source to rid themselves of their persecutors. If you think for a minute that I'll believe that they wouldn't fight back equally as hard or harder than Hamas, you must think I came down in the last shower.

America and Americans have done a lot of good in the past. This alliance with Israel seems to be dragging you down in the sewer. Those of us who actually care are very saddened by it.

I'm tired now. I feel like I've been typing forever. God bless you if you have the patience to read it all but I really, really haven't the energy to respond any more. I can't find my keyboard and I don't know how to break up posts like you can, Whatever you say, I agree with it from now on.

 

The problem is as always that people do not know God, do not want to know him and want to privatize God for their own purposes under the guise of religion...

In fact, it is the entire history of the human race. For God there is only good, justice, love... all the opposite evil, injustice and hatred are the lack of God in that story.
Religion should be a pillar through which people find the true and real God, but it has often become a place of separation. When you look at Jesus' mission on Earth, he is disappointed with the Pharisees, scribes and religious leaders. He tells them to their face that they do not know God, that they do not do the will of his Father, but external rituals. To make the irony even greater, they kill Jesus Christ the living God because according to them it is "God's will" and they actually protect God from such false prophets...

Isn't that actually today's picture of religion (especially Protestants) that you write about. People who in the name of God support injustice and support conscious evil because they take a quote from the Bible that suits them, and ignore the entire other teaching that has been announced.

This is what was read in the Gospel today:
Then Peter proceeded to speak and said,* "In truth, I see that God shows no partiality.j
35
Rather, in every nation whoever fears him and acts uprightly is acceptable to him.

That's it, God is just and equally loves every man, be he Jew, Gentile or someone else. Each one of us is created in His image and no one can use God as an excuse to do evil, and even less to consider themselves chosen in the name of God and humiliate others for that reason.

This is the biggest problem of the schism of the Church, because each church has its own interpretation and its own laws, which are usually in the interests of private groups, be it the nation, individuals or individual groups. Jesus establishes the Church because he is aware that people distort the message and because of this the Catholic Church will never cease to exist. She holds the key to Christ's message, sacrifice and victory over death. That message is Christ himself, it is the Truth, the way and the life. Evil has been defeated and cannot destroy that Catholic Church, but it can wound it. All other Churches will fail or return to the fold of the Catholic Church.
How much they distorted the message (Protestants) shows that they represent Christ, that is, the Truth, but they are ready to renounce that Truth and the New Testament...
The further a man is from Truth and justice, the further he is from God. The Catholic Church knew how to deviate from the right path, but God would always send a saint (St. Francis, St. Anthony, St. Teresa of Avila) or i later times (apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary) to bring it back to the right way.
The Catholic Church will represent the truth until the end, maybe it will be smaller, more attacked and crucified, but as the bride of Christ, it cannot speak otherwise than it is required of it. I have a priest who says that we should thank God for everything, especially for difficult moments. War is a terrible thing, and God grant that it ends in peace as soon as possible. But, at least for us Christians, this war, as well as the one in Ukraine, shows which Church promotes Christ's message and peace, and which are under human influence.

n those two wars (Ukraine and in Gaza) it may not be a coincidence because here we have Protestants who represent one side, Orthodox who represent the other and Catholics who represent the third side. How can there be three sides in Christ and if Christ=Truth, how can Truth have 3 different interpretations and divided into three parts.

Protestantism in Europe is dead and turning to atheism while another part goes to Catholicism, Protestantism in the USA will fall on Israel because people will not be able to connect Christ with the message that the Protestant churches support...
The schism of the Church was not romantic, there will be no unification either, but at least we will all be under the same roof again.

 

There will be reunification for sure, that's part of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. We have to pray and hope for that because there is a prophecy to be fulfilled.

“In time, one Faith, one Baptism, one Church, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic. In eternity, Heaven!”

Sister Lucia in A Pathway Under the Gaze of Mary: Biography of Sister Maria Lucia of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart (2013, Portuguese edition).​

 

Good points

I have not investigated this possibility. You could be right.

I also find it bizarre that someone that someone can justify the genocide in the name of self-defense. I think a lot of this conflict has been skewed by American style politics. So the genocide becomes another division point between "left" and "right". At the same time, the Muslim nations have never liked Israel having it's own nation in the Holy Land. They chant death to Israel and death to America on Quds day every year, while holding Palestinian flags. So, again, it's hard for some people to see Palestinians as the victims they are.

I agree, this is weird.

I agree, and at the same time this is standard fare for how the US Government operates. Which reveals more about the priorities of the US government, and that they are often not in the best interests of the people and the world in general.

I think this is where it is important to tread carefully. Because we cannot judge the people of today, based on the actions of previous generations. As well, from what I understand, slavery was more rooted in class struggle than race struggle. In fact, many white people were brought over on ships only to become indentured servants, which was essentially a work until you die sentence. And, as you mention, there were many people against slavery from the very beginning. I do not know, but am curious about the French colony of Louisianna and their policies regarding slavery and the indigenous. I get the sense much of this could be rooted in the English Monarchy using the Anglican church to further its objectives. I know for a fact that St. Junipero Serra fought hard for the indigenous, but ultimately was overcome by governmental forces.

This seems accurate.

Just because the majority of citizens are in favor of the war, doesn't necessarily mean they see Palestinians as not human. As you mentioned before, this conflict has a history and the people are likely very tired of it. Palestinians are not perfect in this, I need only to look at the actions of the Intifada to see this. Some think it is justified, or a reasonable response to Israeli aggression. Regardless it is still very violent. I imagine most Israelis are very exhausted living with threats such as these, and do not see peace as a possibility at this point.

I concede to you on this point, it is possible we wont see homosexuality criminalized in Palestine.

I agree that in such situations they would defend themselves as necessary. But that wasn't the impression I was getting from what you stated. Any person pushed far enough will typically use anything at their disposal to protect themselves and their own.

I don't know where you get the impression that I somehow do not care, or am on the side of the alliance between Israel and the US. Do you notice how I have agreed with you on many points you have made? I simply don't believe the pastor is entirely wrong and that he makes some solid points. It isn't black or white.

I appreciate your energy and insights in this conversation. I believe it is good to talk about these things, and try to remain objective when speaking about it. To consider all points of view. You never know what will come out of it. It is my experience that most people have good hearts and have much more in common with their beliefs than what separates them. Also just take the first set of brackets [] and the last set of brackets in a response and place them around what you are quoting.

 

Excellent post. I often wonder what a world with 8 billion saints would be like.