Garabandal Objections

People can not say they are " discerning " if they are provided answers to their questions, and ALWAYS discount them for one reason or another. You are not discerning anymore, you have made up your mind ! So to what end are people like that here ?

 

Glen, you are getting in a tight knot about it all. Very wound up. Mother Mary is smiling at us all right now am sure of it. We are all doing our best on this walk, we are all at different stages, and we all have our own personal convictions..

Steve believes in the Medj messages and is doing his best to live them. So he has great use here.

I love his honesty, and really for him to be able to air his views here should have been a great compliment to everyone. He was trusting everyone here who has the love of God within them.

Have we failed him or continued to show him that love and patience..

Glen, we can go around in circles..

My auntie believes in some very strange things. Two Patrick's for one.

But she is still of great value to God. We all are from the least to the greatest, from the nearest to the one that is furthest away.

My auntie is of great value for these reasons in spite of being led by two quacks.

She knows Christ is truly present in ALL the Sacraments.
She spends most of her day in prayer and the rest of it tending to those who are sick.
Not afraid to wipe their bottoms if they are unable to do it themselves..

She is one of God's little ones..

 

You are a right that I get upset when I see Mary's apparition and message attacked and see through people's ulterior motives. Would you and Steve be so gracious and calm to me if I opened a thread called "Objections to Medjugorje", and questioned every minute detail and refused any explanation I was given as mistaken or slanted ? I bet Steve would be upset too, why , because its personal to his faith, just as Garabandal is to mine. The difference is I'm not like 98% of the people on this board, I'm not here post or blog . I am here for a purpose, to help and explain this which has been made known to me. The only other person who can relate to me in that regard (that I've met so far here ) is Padraig, fulfilling his mission . I have been entrusted with a mission in this life, and I passionately defend Mary's apparition and message. I have shown patience ,despite what you think , you haven't had to answer the same questions over and over again, to the same few people who refuse any explanation, after a while ,you start to wonder what is their purpose for asking ? If you don't believe ,and you find all answers given unsatisfactory, that's fine, move on. It's a shame my passion for our Blessed Mother, and her defense is not shared by all.

 

Glenn, we had this discussion before. It looks like yo do not want to admit the reality. And it is that Conchita, eight years after the apparitions and in an filmed interview, undoubtedly said that she was waiting for the miracle to know if the apparitions were true. She later on changed her mind and said that she was sure. Ok. But the truth is that in 1973 she was not. Why is so difficult to admit that?

What made her to change her mind?

 

Jose, I DID FREELY ADMIT THAT EARLIER TO YOU, BUT YOU MUST ALSO ADMIT THE CURRENT REALITY, she recanted that 1973 story and reversed her decision, and that HASN'T CHANGED SINCE 1980 ! So in fact since she has not changed her 1980 interview, we no longer need to discuss this.

 

You asked me that question privately and I gave you an answer which was 'read my posts'. I assume that you didn't bother.

 

Glen, I have neither expressed a belief or a disbelief for Garabandal and yes I have listened to the arguments of others on this thread who don't like Medjugorje, I respect their views and simply because they love God and our Blessed Mother I am very happy.

I have Christians knocking on my door from other churches inviting me along, when I tell them I am a fully practicing Roman Catholic they still try to get me along to their Church. I have no qualms in telling them that they are wrong. I also have no qualms in telling them when I have done street witnessing I simply rejoice when I meet someone who loves Christ regardless of whether they belong to the Catholic Church or not.

I just want God to be loved by all and for them to realize that God loves them. This is my mission. For those who don't know this love, I pray for them. Not always easy. Granted. But we have to keep on trying.

. I have had to sit calmly whilst God has been ridiculed by those who hate the Catholic Church because of their experiences etc.. I am learning not to take these personally and to realize that the person is hurt/confused/angry etc and often this is misdirected.

In regards to the unapproved apparition sites, it is fine not to believe. Hey even the Magisterium of The Catholic Church is sitting on the fence and waiting to see. People who also do this are being obedient to Church teaching which is protecting them and they should be applauded for it.

 

In all respect for Glenn and his apostolate on this forum, he has been most upfront in explaining and defending Garabandal in a most patient way. I for one admire his perserverance in re-explaining the same things to the same people. I would like to be Job, but I would not have near the patience that he has displayed to a few, who for some reason can not walk away from the Garabandal forum even though they reject it. Face it, you are either a believer in it, or you are a new member to the forum seeking answers about Garabandal or you are posting on this thread to agitate. The third one is not Christian.

 

Fatima, on the other threads, in spite of the fact that I haven't openly declared whether for or against. I have stated that Conchita showed an honesty when she spoke and said she was no longer sure if it was true. This was prophesized that because of the great apostacy etc that one of them (was surprised that was actually 3 but maybe this is false)

I also stated that because the priest was dug up and found to be corrupted that this didn't mean that he then wouldn't be found incorrupt after the miracle.

Now, there is another question. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Padre Pio did see the miracle before he died as he is very tuned to all of this. However, it has been said that the letter written by Padre Pio was not signed. I find this strange as he was so precise etc.

An unsigned letter doesn't carry the same weight as a signed letter. This is true within The Church and in The world.

 

I believe in Garabandal 120% I also believe in Medjugorje. If one would focus on the messages alone I don't think there would be so much disbelief in her truly appearing. Yes it is true one does not need to believe in Garabandal to live a holy life. But my question would be,..if Our Lady came to deliver messages on behalf of the Blessed Trinity would it be wise to ignore those messages?
Do we put conditions on what God can and cannot do,..like the girls falling into sculpt like postions? Or Conchita having doubts. Does the devil ever attack someone through doubts? I think Glenn has been very patient,..and I have seen the attacks....prove it to me Glenn,...not good enough Glenn. Why would anyone want to put up with that? He has even said if someone were to put a gun to his head and said deny Garabandal or I will shoot you ..he would say shoot. He is passionate in his belief, so why wouldn't he be passionate in defending it. I don't see him as being uncharitable,..this man has the gift of fortitude.
There were times when even Christ spoke very sternly,...he said things like your father is the devil,..or get behind me satan. So I guess you need to look at where that person is coming from. No one needs to argue about Garabandal,..they just need to go on another thread. We can all be brothers and sisters whether we believe or not,..but don't "shoot" the messenger.

 

Glenn, thanks for responding to my question. As I'm reading through this thread, I guess it was wrong of me to pose a question in a thread entitled "Garabandal Objections" because then a priori it looks like my question relates to an objection. I want to be clear: I have NO objections to Garabandal. I should have asked any questions in the Garabandal news thread but as I was reading along I came across Jose's post so I asked.

Look, I don't really know anybody else personally on this Forum so I'm way out of the loop when it comes to following who believes in Medj., who in Garabandal, who both or neither - so it starts getting confusing to me when people start getting personal. I don't really like it or necessarily understand it, but I get we're dealing with issues of great dedication, especially by people like you obviously, whose passion is inspiring.

Why have I asked questions of Garabandal? First, because one person explained the Warning prophesied at Garabandal to me personally very movingly and it made a very deep impression on me. Since that time, I have broached the subject of Garabandal with every parish priest my church has ever had through the years and with other people, even if they think I'm crazy after talking about it! I don't say you have to believe this but merely bring it up as a point of conversation to see where it leads. The topic of Garabandal obviously made an impression on me because I wouldn't necessarily bring it up even just with acquaintances.

Here I was going to quote some of the responses I've encountered from the clergy (and started typing them out actually) but have decided probably best I don't. I do mention the clergy because if I start explaining what I understand about Garabandal, I'd like to know how somebody close to Conchita like you deals with the questions or issues that might later be asked of me.

Am I 100% sure of Garabandal ? Am I always 100% sure about my Catholic faith? I come close but we all must certainly have some moments of doubt which ultimately recede. Mother Teresa in her personal notes revealed how she struggled with God. Jesus Christ Himself asked a question of God the Father on the Cross momentarily. I think asking is part of Faith but in asking we are promised to receive.

Glenn, I'll refrain from asking questions on this thread. If I do in the future ask questions to strengthen my foundation or cast away doubt, I'll ask on the Garabandal thread, but it seems you have your hands filled as it is and I think I've basically asked everything that concerns me except one, but I'll do that in the future or pm you.

God Bless You Glenn for your patience and attention!

In Christ,
Mike

 

Mike, first of all you are not alone about fielding looks or comments from clergy. The main reason Mike is just like the GBL News board ,there are so many rumors or half truths or lies floating around ,the clergy rarely take the time to research anything, or have never seen the video. When I have been able to provide a DVD or now the free online video link to them , then go back and ask them, quite a different reaction. The two things that always open their mind to it is Padre Pio's confession with Joey Lomangino, and the Catholic devotions which have manifested from the apparitions (confession, daily mass & communion, the rosary, fasting & penance ).
Secondly I would rather answer your questions in public on the GBL News board for two reasons. First, I am always willing to try my best to answer any legitimate concerns you have. Secondly ,sometimes you ask a question someone else might be interested in, as well as the answer, so it benefits others as well as yourself. I'll be "patiently" waiting on the other thread for you.
In our Blessed Mother's service,
Glenn

 

Padraig
I do believe you are a daily mass goer .

(While this reading was given last Sunday the Gamaliel section is left out. However the left out section was read out on the mass I happened to attend on the Friday before - and I too refelcted along similar lines re Garabandal).

 

Guys you are both right for crying out loud!
In 1973 she had a short period of irrational doubt whether or not the visions etc were real (which is clearly irrational because 4 visionaries cannot simulate so well together nor do many of the preternatural things that were clearly done).
Such confusion is well within the earthly dominion/power of the Evil One to so cause (if one likes to think in that way about these things).

In 1980 she clearly no longer denies the phenomenon spoken of in her 1973 interview. In fact she is now secure enough in what she experienced to be OK about people judging her mad for holding to her views about what she experienced.
HOWEVER she is still open to the fact that she may well be mistaken as to the IDENTITY of the "Lady".
Perhaps she still has on and off doubts about this aspect (who wouldn't after 50 years of silence) but at the moment she clearly believes it was Our Lady. She does not know it was Our Lady.

How can Conchita "know" it was Our Lady...even the Church doesn't "know" that yet!
(This is exactly what happened at Fatima...the children kept talking about the "little white Lady"... at the start because she never actually identified herself. Everybody else assumed of course it was Our Lady right from the start...but the children remained honest to only what they actually saw and understood. Interestingly they called her "little" because the apparition was only half human size!)


If the miracle comes true (which she presently believes will come true if she is not mistaken about the "Lady's" identity) then she will know for sure it was OUR LADY (who does not deceive). But to be honest even then I suspect Conchita would still wait for the Church to finally pronounce.


The distinction between these different doubts seems clear as crystal if one carefully compares the two videos. (I have to go by the english translations).

 

Yes ,you're right too,lol. That's all I wanted to point out , the other side of the "coin".

 

I admire Glenn for his great patience.

 

Yes BH the passage from Rabban Gamaliel was read out in Church just a few days ago.

I have always thought is good advice in dealing with mystical phenomena , that we should have holy reverential respect when we come across them (such as Garabandal), not being too quick to judge negatively.

I believe the Rabban was actually canonised in the Orthodox Tradition were they believe he later became a Christian and in the Jewish Talmudic Tradition is viewed as one of the great founding fathers.

As far as I remember he taught St Paul.



Traditional Jewish Boys Visiting Tomb Of Rabban Gamliel (Rabban Gamaliel II) In Yavneh, Israel

 

There is a legend that Gamaliel was one of the "Doctors" in the temple that Jesus debated with as a lad when he was "lost" there for 3 days. He was most intrigued with Jesus. Actually, it may not be a legend, I think it came from "The Poem of theMan of God." I will have to see if I can find it again.

 

Here's the link Jesus with the Doctors.

 

Okay,

I am going to play Devil's Advocate here.

One thing (perhaps the only thing) that has really bothered me about Garabandal and Medjugorje (although I have always looked much more favorably on Garabandal) and which I must state in the interests of discernment, is the issue of secrecy as it relates to the prophesied future events.

For instance, at Fatima, the Miracle of the Sun was announced beforehand, publicly, by the seers as going to happen at high noon on October 13, 1917 at the Cova da Iria. Our Lady did not keep this event secret. It was announced in the open for all to discern.

Perhaps there is a theologian out there who could explain to me why the prophesied events at Garabandal need to remain secret and how this is consistent with other approved apparitions, but it is the only aspect of Garabandal that really bothers me, and has from the very first moment that I heard of Garabandal.