Full Blown Civil War

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

    “Christian terrorism does not exist, Jewish terrorism does not exist, and Muslim terrorism does not exist. They do not exist,” Francis said in his speech to a world meeting of populist movements.

    Is it possible the guy is certifiably insane? What planet is he on?

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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
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  2. AED

    AED Powers

    God help us. And God help him. And God help our poor world.
     
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  3. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    FAKE NEWS!!!!
     
  4. garabandal

    garabandal Powers


    The same planet as Liberals such as Hilary Clinton & B. Obama!@
     
  5. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

  6. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Tanker,

    Below is an excerpt from the article:

    Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger spoke of conscience before a gathering of bishops in Dallas, Texas in 1991. He talked of two levels: anamnesis – the memory of goodness and truth within our being, and conscientia – judgment and decisions then formulated. He states clearly that conscience is always binding-even if it is erroneous:

    On this level, the level of judgment (conscientia in the narrower sense), it can be said that even the erroneous conscience binds… But the fact that the conviction a person has come to certainly binds in the moment of acting, does not signify a canonization of subjectivity. It is never wrong to follow the convictions one has arrived at — in fact, one must do so. But it can very well be wrong to have come to such askew convictions in the first place, by having stifled the protest of the anamnesis of being. The guilt lies then in a different place, much deeper… in the neglect of my being which made me deaf to the internal promptings of truth. (note 5)

    Of course, for the guilt to lie not in the decision to act, but in the formulation of one’s moral and spiritual character, opens up many possibilities as to how and why the person arrived at the judgment they did, and because of that, the necessity for the pastor to discern exactly how much guilt a person has.


    In his article, Stephen Walford highlights primarily concerns about Amoris Laetitia. First of all, I agree most of Amoris Laetitia is an uplifting and positive document. The Dubia was presented to question only certain parts of the exhortation. What Walford fails to address is the obvious contradiction between the above quote from Benedict and the Maltese bishops' document, Criteria for the Application of Chapter VIII of Amoris Laetitia. The bishops actually support a canonization of subjectivity. How so? They allow a fully informed conscience to choose to continue in adultery and yet receive the sacraments. They even go so far as to say that such individuals cannot be refused the sacraments!

    Quote from para. 10:

    If, as a result of the process of discernment, undertaken with “humility, discretion and love for the Church and her teaching, in a sincere search for God’s will and a desire to make a more perfect response to it” (AL 300), a separated or divorced person who is living in a new relationship manages, with an informed and enlightened conscience, to acknowledge and believe that he or she are at peace with God, he or she cannot be precluded from participating in the sacraments of Reconciliation and Eucharist (see AL, notes 336 and 351).


    As I responded in another thread:

    To possess a “love for the Church and her teaching” and to have one’s conscience “informed and enlightened” by said teaching, requires a Catholic to abide by such teaching if they are to act in good faith. This is especially so when we are dealing with a negative command such as, Thou shalt not commit adultery. As St. John Paul II stated in Veritatis Splendor, the faithful must acknowledge “the absolute validity of negative moral precepts which oblige without exception” (VS 76). In my opinion, the two bishops have exalted the role of private conscience above obedience to Christ which is a heretical posture. In addition, the saying, “he or she cannot be precluded from participating in the sacraments of Reconciliation and Eucharist,” puts the individual distributing Holy Communion to such persons in the precarious position of possibly violating their own consciences.

    I believe my wording of an exalted private conscience coincides with the canonization of subjectivity which Benedict obviously disagreed with. And yet the Vatican allowed the publication of the Maltese exhortation in the L’Osservatore Romano.

    Stephen Walford was unwilling to take his examination far enough to cover the bases.

    Safe in the Barque of Peter!
     
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  7. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    So why am I beginning to be terrified about what is coming out in the public domain next. And from the Vatican.:eek:
     
  8. sparrow

    sparrow Powers

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  9. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    The cardinal paid tribute to Pope Francis’s “moral authority”, pointing out that the Pope was recognised by atheists as “an authentic guide”.

    Ouch! The Cardinal has summed it all up in one sentence. The Pope is a big hit with atheists, secular Jews, some Muslims, new age earth worshippers, and Catholics who want Christianity without the cross. The populist pope.

    The Cardinal might want to stock up on mosquito repellent because my crystal ball tells me that he is about to embark on a long journey over water.
     
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  10. padraig

    padraig Powers


    Cardinal Muller is doing what Pope Francis is not doing trying to give a voice of authority.

    But it must be obvious to the Cardinal that the one who should be speaking the Pope is silent. .Why is the Pope silent? Clearly because he wishes to be silent. Why does does he wish to be silent? Clearly because he wants the increasing the division and confusion to continue and deepen. Why does he wish this? The question go on and on. The more answers one comes up with the deepen the worry about what is going on here.

    Cardinal Mueller is an very intelligent man. Clearly the questions that occur to us occur to him...and more. I hope he has the courage to ask these questions of the one who has all the answers as he is responsible for this huge mess.

    Pope Francis.

    If it were a buisness he would have been shown the door a long time ago.
     
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  11. padraig

    padraig Powers

  12. padraig

    padraig Powers

  13. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Padraig, the CDF prepared a list of corrections to AL before it was published. They were ignored. The Pope subsequently made personnel changes in the CDF. Pope Francis makes sideswipes at Cardinal Muller and denigrated him by directing people to Cardinal Schonborn for an interpretation of AL. It's clear that Pope Francis will replace Cardinal Muller at the first opportunity. Hasn't Cardinal Muller said that he cannot issue a response to the Dubia without the Pope's permission? That interview was the best he could do without openly rubbishing a papal document. And if he does give the Pope reason to replace him, I shudder to think of what we will get in his place. The Mason's friend, Schonborn, or Rodriguez the Soros favourite perhaps? Pray that Cardinal Muller hangs in there as long as possible.

    Pope Francis knows full well that he can't answer the dubia without revealing himself to be a heretic, so he relies on others to do his talking for him. We are told that the Church must go through a passion to mirror the Passion of Christ. What everyone fails to mention is that Christ's passion was instigated by Judas selling Jesus. The only way anyone can actually sell Jesus now is by selling the Blessed Eucharist. There could be very tough times ahead for all of us.
     
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  14. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

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  15. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

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  16. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    The answer to all your questions can be answered in one word PRIDE. The same way Lucifer fell from God's grace.
     
  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Dolours, it is so difficult discussing Pope Francis. On the one hand I have a strong temptation to go straight back on to purely mystical/spiritual/ prophetic matters (which h is what I always hoped this was the main concern of this forum) and on the other I do not want to seem like I am obsessing about the guy. However in a funny kind of sens Pope Francis reminds me a lot of Donald Trump in that he seems to love the media and never be off it (look at the Popes in the sky press conferences of the Presidents constant tweeting. In short they are both very, very difficult people to ignore, love them or hate them.

    I will say one thing about Pope Francis's character that particularly concerns me and that is this. I love dealing with people who are very,very straightforward and easy to comprehend. The more like little children people are the more I like them. You know instantly were they are coming from. You know that in them there is no guile, no back alleys , no need to second guess, it is all led right out there in front of you. No need for games, no need for pretense. You can relax. Agree with them, disagree with them you are right there at home, you can put the slipper on , put the feet up and relax.

    I think of two saints right off hand who had this child like quality in abundance (though of course all God's saints share this to one degree or another) . The two lady. saints are St Bernadette Soubirous and St Joan of Arc.

    Both were girls on fire. St Joan of Arc in a fight for her life against a biased and corrupt Church Court and St Bernadette wrestling with the fall our of the Lourdes Apparitions and a Mother Superior and Novice Mistress who had it in for her.

    Two incidents show this child like simplicity. One time Bernadette was asked about eating the plants at the Massabielle at the Virgins urging, by a priest during the Commision's hearing. Bernadette replied,

    'But Father you eat salads too?
    ' Which shut down that line of questioning pretty quickly. :D

    The second was to St Joan of Arc while undergoing questioning at her trial. She was asked if the voices from heaven which she heard might not be a result of her imagination? TO which St Joan replied,

    'Of course it was my imagination! How else could work but through my imagination?':D

    Again the perfect simple answer.

    But you see the troubling thing about Pope Francis is that in him I find totally the reverse of what I find in these child like saints. I find in him immense complexity, sophistication and to be frank often complete confusion. Smoke and mirrors.

    There is a character in one of CS Lewis books, 'Out of the Silent Planet' . He is a Protestant Minister whose behaviour is utterly confused and bizarre. But CS Lewis describes him at one point as like a glass bottle full of buzzing large flies. That is what Pope Francis reminds me of . A glass bottle full of large buzzing flies. The very polar opposite of St Bernadette and of Sainte Jeane D'Arc..

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  18. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    Such wonderful testimony from Cardinal Burke to the unchanging truths of our faith. I have been thinking that removing him from Rome to a remote island may be in God's plan to protect him from all that is to come on the Church because of all the Judas'. When he returns to Rome he may the chosen one who will restore all things.
     
  19. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Ah, yes, simplicity. "let your yes be yes and your no be no". But we only have to go back to our first parents, Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. It was simple, it was paradise on earth until the sly one, the one who deceived by half truths, the one who gave truth with a dab of poison. Let us never forget that Satan is the Father of Lies. He does his best work when he speaks half truths in confusing language. If he spoke any other way the well intended person would not have listened. And so it is today. We call abortion, pro-choice. We call gay sex, love. We call contraception, freedom. And now we call adultery a gift that should be celebrated within holy communion. Yes, the times have changed and the Father of Lies has played his part well. Man has given him the power over their lives and soul. We can rejoice in knowing that Mary soon crushes his head within her Immaculate Heart. Mary, Mother of God, pray for us.
     
  20. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Rome may be a dangerous place to reside in the days ahead. Terroristic threats loom over Rome and in paticular the Vatican. I would not be surprised if there was an attack of some sort this year. The third secret of Fatima that was purported to be about jpII just might be about PF.
    Regardless, in the end, Her immaculate heart will triumph!
     

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