Good luck with it. I'll be really interested to know how it goes. Don't be surprised if you get very guarded answers to your questions. I wouldn't use Padraig's approach but would be more inclined to introduce the subject gradually in the course of the conversation. One priest told me that it's wrong (sinful) to share with others my opinion of the Pope even if I'm right because it could affect the faith of others. He didn't say my opinion was right. That seemed fair enough to me at the time. I've changed my mind now because that seems to prevent Catholics from discussing what's going on in the Church. Another priest's advice seemed more reasonable - that it's all right to criticise but sinful to attribute bad motives to the Pope. It's reasonable until you get into the nitty gritty of what motives fall into the bad category. Yet another priest was only short of likening me to Judas betraying Jesus. Confession is not easy nowadays especially for those of us who don't have priest friends with whom we can discuss these matters.
St Paul rebuked St Peter, the first Pope, for being a hypocrite, in public and to his face . It doesn't get much straighter than that. Galatians 2:11 Paul Confronts Cephas 10They only asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. 11When Cephas came to Antioch, however, I opposed him to his face, because he stood to be condemned. 12For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself, for fear of those in the circumcision group.…
St. Paul was a bishop though, so that does make a difference too. We are in totally uncharted waters right now and there is little leadership. That is why if you ask 3 different priests, you get 3 different answers. It is hard to know what to do. Here are my best guess guidelines on how we should act though. 1. We should never guess at a person's inner motivations (unless they tell us what they are) this is always sinful because...well...it's always a guess and can be wrong. So it is uncharitable. 2. I don't think it can ever be wrong to point out when error is being taught to a fellow Catholic as long as it is done charitably. 3. Constantly self-evaluate to make sure we are staying in the right mindset and not letting our anger at this (let's face it...intolerable) situation get the better of us. Try to remember Christ is in total control and with one Breath of His Mouth could wipe this all away. He is not. So He is allowing this for a greater good. 4. Never say (or post) anything in a state of anger. This leads to a loose tongue and likely violations of rules 1 and 2. These are just my thoughts and unfortunately, I find myself violating them all too often, but I think they help for what it's worth.
Excellent and much needed. It is a slippery situation. For myself, I do better withholding comments on PF. It is too easy to assume motives and that can be very sinful. The pope is a special case but with anyone we are not allowed to make rash judgements. What helps me is to focus on the 4th commandment and to honor the pope as my father. This is tough. I am way too quick to ignore the beam in my own eye and call out the speck in others. I am just about going to confession once a week now.
The problem is not that folks are speaking out about Pope Francis. The big problem is that folks aren't. You could wind up as quickly in hell for not saying what needs to be said, as saying what shouldn't be said. This is wha tis known as sins of omission.
Well this is true. Sins of omission are so easy to commit and so hard to recognize but for myself I dont stay silent when false teaching is promulgated. I call it out. But I stay clear of the person of PF. I talk to Jesus about it but try not to get into it with others. But it is a tangled mess. With family who already have turned on the Church I struggle with criticizing. I dont want to drive them even further by scandalizing them and weakening whatever faith they have left.. It is tough. I pray for the light of the Holy Spirit a lot.
I discuss PF and the church situation with close family members and a few close friends who have the stomach for it. After that I hold my fire unless I am directly asked for my opinion. Like you I worry about giving ammunition to those who are always looking for opportunities to have a go at the church. I find the vast majority of people are blissfully unaware of the shenagins in the Vatican and at this point in time it's above my pay grade to disturb their peace. I rarely bring the subject up in confession as I don't feel any guilt on my part. Anytime I have mentioned it I have been told pray for PF and the church and for sound teaching. I do that. I have one particular friend who thinks PF is wonderful. She is a very good person very devoted to adoration and scripture. She is aware of my opinion and is not at all happy with me. I don't engage in any conversation with her about the situation as I think she can't deal with it and it will lead to angry words if I go there. Saying all that I think it is all starting to come out in the open and the problems will be evident to all very soon. In the meantime I take Our Lady's advice to Pray Pray Pray especially for faith that will carry us all through this trial
I have a cousin who goes to mass and communion everyday and is a Social Worker. She is a firm believer in Abortion. I brought the topic up with her one time and she turned nasty. She baffles me.
I think we have a big problem in Ireland with churches silence from the pulpit on living the commandments. This leads to otherwise good people thinking that it is OK to support abortion for someone in a difficult situation in the name of compassion. I blame the lack clear teaching from the pulpit for all this confusion. False compassion has been the undoing of this country. One of our strong traits as a nation has been compassion for the less fortunate but sadly this has led us into the vice of false compassion and I have to say I hold the church largely responsible
Apparently it goes back to a from of Moral Theology, which many of our Bishops subscribe to called, 'Proportionalism'; which is basically that the ends justify the means. This was used to undercut Humane Vitae for instance. https://zenit.org/articles/is-proportionalism-reasonable/ An extreme example might be a couple who were expecting a child and had no money might argue that it is for the greater good if a abortion was obtained as the child would have a poor quality of life anyway. This is why there is so much talk of , 'Accompaniment', because each person because of this must make their own judgement in a given subjective situation. It would also imply that there is no such thing as an objective evil.
I'd be thinking that he's suffering the same conflict of loyalty as the rest of us, so I'd be cautious and encouraging before jumping right in. He might need support. Very difficult to be an orthodox priest right now.
It's hard not to conclude in these cases that Feminism is being placed above God. The nastiness might be a hopeful sign, please God.
Thankyou Maryrose. You have expressed exactly what I am feeling at this time. What I hear in confession from the holiest priest of my acquaintance is to pray. That God is permitting this to cleanse the Church but it will not be allowed to stand. He also told me I have a right to be angry. Just to not lose my peace basically.
I had a similar situation with my husband's good friends from their peace corps days. She considered herself a devout Catholic and was much more productive in charitable works than I will ever be but she adamantly believed in abortion. Because if all the poverty and misery she had seen. We had a long conversation about it one afternoon while our husbands went off to a baseball game. Hours and hours we talked. She listened and she was very kind about it but I made no headway. She absolutely saw no contradiction between abortion and her Catholic faith. This was a well educated woman--Catholic schools right through--so it wasn't poor catechesis. She has since died of a very nasty cancer may God rest her soul.
I hope God will be merciful. to me as well as her. I think certain fields of study and professions such as Sociology and Psychology has totally fallen to the Enemy. My sister taught Social Work for many years at college and I remember her as a young student coming home to report she had been asked to be a Free Mason. She had been , 'Tapped', right away.
Yes it is difficult. I have no experience of Social Work myself or really much experience of poverty at all. So this puts me very much on the back foot. I remember a few years back when they started collecting food in our local food bank. I wondered to myself, in a Welfare State can people really be so hungry they need be to given food? So one day I saw a couple of ladies from the local parish at the stall and asked them if there really were people who were so poor they were hungry in my city? They enthusiastically and strongly told me that there were..that they met such people. including children every day. In the case of Abortion. Well. I am not a woman. Nor have I even been a Father. This puts me very much on the back foot too. This is why I love at pro Life actions to see women take the front seat as it were. It reminds me of what Padre Pio said one time, 'I am only a poor Catholic who prays!' That is all we have , what Scripture says and what the Church taught us for 2,000 years. Our Faith. Our Prayer life. That may seem little at times. But I think it is more than enough. When folk veer from this the wander in Waterless places.
When my Spiritual Director lay on his Death Bed I asked him to recommend a new Spiritual Director to take over. He told me that there was no one he could trust to do the job. That I must take \Jesus Christ Himself as my guide. Ireland back then was loads better than it was now.To find a good priest hat you could totally trust to guide you would be a hundred times more difficult. If you are walking in a bog and are lost you must be particularly careful when you ask directions because in asking a stranger for directions you run great risks. I remember high up the mountains I met an old shepherd in his 80's for advice and had total trust in him because he had lived in the same mountains his whole life. He wasn't trusting from maps, he wa speaking from wherin he knew. Of roads he had travlled from childhood. But were oh where to find such sage advice when all seem lost and the mist has fallen? Lately I have had the habit of asking my Guardian Angel to go to Padre Pio for graces. On Saturday in confession when I looked though the grill, to my delight and surprise I saw Padre sitting there plane as day listening carefully . God will not leave us orphans , leave us to wander in the mists. He will always seed the Spirit to guide us; His Holy Angels to Light our Ways. John 14:18 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit …17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19In a little while, the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live.…
Some of the few clerics to have publicly opposed what is happening in the Church have said that it is up to the laity to save the Church. One obvious reason is that a priest or bishop is definitely 'putting his head on the block' and risking the goodwill of his superiors by being too frank (sorry unintended pun). They risk being sent away 'for a rest' and some re-education and then being sent to some 'out of the way' parish/diocese and being shunned by their peers, possibly being deprived of the right to undertake some/all the normal duties of a priest etc. etc. A superior will certainly have enough information to establish which 'buttons to press' and then proceed to do so in the case of a sufficiently troublesome traditional priest/bishop. It is depressing that even some lay bloggers whose views I previously held in high regard (but who sell various wares for their living) have been noticeably reticent about mentioning/criticising pagan gods being worshipped by shamans and indigenous people (and clerics?) in the Vatican itself (God help us), 'What does it profit a man....'. There's not much that they can do to us laypeople who are not employed by the Church and not dependent on selling religious goods or music, except call us names and/or pretend that our complaints/observations are invalid and so are being politely ignored. If sufficient numbers get involved their pretended indifference would become real concern. I once asked a British MP (in pre-email days) how many letters he had to receive about any particular problem before he knew that he had to take it seriously and possibly urge government action. I was surprised to hear that it was only 'about 100'. Because, apparently, for every one that wrote there were several hundred others who also felt strongly about the matter but who hadn't bothered to get in touch, so 100 could probably be translated to another 10,000 who felt strongly (if slightly less so) and maybe a further 50,000 who might be even less strongly concerned but still wished that some action be taken. So raising the matter with government and getting the local press to mention that he had done so might please 60,000 of his constituents, a very healthy proportion of the electorate. I once emailed a well-known, atheist, British journalist about a piece he had written about religion. I received an automatic response saying that he could not guarantee to read all emails, however, if the recipient wished to write to him at a given address he would undertake to read the letter and, if appropriate, to respond. I wrote to him and, in passing, asked why he did this. To my surprise, he sent a chatty and pleasant response saying that 'if someone actually writes to me, I know that they genuinely feel strongly and wish me to consider their views and that the sender is much more likely to be calm and thoughtful about the contents, he also said that only a very few of the emailers subsequently bothered to put pen to paper so he saved an awful lot of time (and the reading of rants and insults) without alienating the few who genuinely wished to exchange views. So I am going to write a fairly short, thoughtful and polite letter to my bishop and expect the correspondence to become lengthier over time and to continue until the replies stop coming which in my bishop's case might be fairly soon. Then I write to the Archbishop, then the Cardinal then Rome.
I think this is a good plan. I am considering withdrawing my automatic monthly payment to the parish but I struggle with this because my parish is not Rome and what would I do without them. We have good serious priests. It is a conundrum.
My personal opinion is that if you have good priests you shouldn't withhold money going to the parish. Encourage the good. Out with the bad.
