"Francis has built his popularity at the expense of the church he leads."

And do you see your self as a St Paul, Frodo? Know your place. If the Pope is to be corrected (and he is certainly open to being corrected) then it is to be done by a fellow bishop not a blogger.

Take notice of the example of Cardinal Burke.

 

I'll say again!! I have come to believe that a God driven STORM is upon us and Pope Francis is playing his role in The Storm as directed so that said Storm may unfold as planned!
Now!! Since I came to believe the above, I've decided to attempt to discern what my role is and plan/act accordingly ....... and I no longer worry about what the Pope or some Bishop in Germany sez 'cause I'm betting, in very short order, it will not matter one iota in my survival and wellbeing ... and those that may be sent my way?

GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!

 

Ok, you keep your vendetta going and see how that turns out for you. Who are you preaching to? Seriously, you really think your spin has any effect on anyone on MOG who all know the faith? Pride comes even to the "orthodox" as you and others well display.

 

What excellent advice!

Let's see what Cardinal Burke recommends...

Interview With Cardinal Burke… Insights On The State Of The Church In The Aftermath Of The Ordinary Synod On The Family
January 19, 2016

Q. Do you have any words for faithful priests who find themselves discouraged by the current ecclesiastical atmosphere of doctrinal confusion and subversion?
Also, what about lay people? If faithful members of the laity find themselves in parishes (or dioceses) where aberrant practices contrary to authentic Church teaching are taking place, what is the proper response?
To whom does the laity turn if those in leadership positions in the magisterial office of the Church espouse pastoral practices that are in opposition to her unchangeable doctrine?


A. ...The laity needs to write about these things. If we remain silent, it gives the impression that we, too, are going along with all of this confusion and error. That, we know, is the work of the Devil — he is the master of confusion and error.

 

You win on points on that one, Frodo.

More seriously, follow the example of the Cardinal in his respect for the Pope.

 

I agree with David on this (Did I just say that? )

Please everyone let us remember when posting on what is going on in the Church that we are talking about the Princes of the Church and the Vicar of Christ. If anyone disagrees with what some of them are saying or doing and are going to post about it please do it with the utmost reverence for the positions these men hold. That is our duty as Catholics.

 

I actually agree with you too.

Do some people go too far at times whether in the heat of the moment? Perhaps. I know I have been making an effort on that front and taking things to prayer more often and first before posting or ranting at home. But I also think the opposite is also true at times- Some people take healthy criticism as a personal attack.

I personally don't see the article that Brian posted as a personal attack. In fact there are very valid points being made in the article.

 

So much for converting souls to the One, True Faith.


http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=29637#

Pope rips ‘hypocrisy’ of Christians who reject refugees, says proselytism is ‘venom’
Catholic World News

October 13, 2016

Pope Francis assailed Christians who oppose the acceptance of refugees, and those who seek to convince others of the truth of their faith, in remarks to a visiting German group on October 13.

Breaking away from his prepared remarks, the Pope said told the ecumenical group that he is appalled by “the contradiction of those who want to defend Christianity in the West, and, on the other hand, are against refugees and other religions.” He also spoke of his distaste for proselytism.

“It’s not right to convince someone of your faith,” the Pope said. “Proselytism is the strongest venom against the path of ecumenism.”

The visiting German group was composed of Catholics and Lutherans, making a pilgrimage together to visit the Pope. In his prepared remarks the Holy Father described their visit as “a beautiful initative,” and remarked that Lutherans and Catholics “are journeying together on the way from conflict to communion.”

The Pope reminded the group that he would be traveling to Sweden later this month to join the World Lutheran Federation in an observance of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation.

References:

• Francis receives a pilgrimage of a thousand Lutherans: God’s mercy unites us (Vatican press office)
• Christians who reject all refugees are 'hypocrites,' pope says (CNS)
• Proselytism venom against ecumenism-pope (ANSA)

 

Indifferentism.


http://www.ansa.it/english/news/vat...ope_f39b848d-c170-46ba-b2ae-a58366ec391e.html

Proselytism venom against ecumenism-pope

(ANSA) - Vatican City, October 13 - Pope Francis told a group of mostly Lutheran pilgrims on Thursday that proselytism was a potential threat to Christian unity. "The last thing you must do is 'to say, to convince'. It's not right to convince someone of your faith," he said.
"Proselytism is the strongest venom against the path of ecumenism".
The pope was speaking to around 1,000 pilgrims in the Vatican - most of them German Lutherans - who are in Rome as part of ecumenical preparations for the 500th anniversary of the beginning of the Lutheran reformation.
"The Apostle Paul tells us that, by virtue of our baptism, we all form the one Body of Christ," the pope said.
"The different members, in fact, are one body. This is why we belong to each other and when one suffers, all suffer, when one rejoices, all rejoice. Let us continue with confidence on our ecumenical journey, because we know that, beyond the many open questions that still separate us, we are already united.
What unites us is much more than what divides us".

 

Cardinal Newman rebuffs Pope Francis' "ecumenism" and distaste for "proselytism":

"For thirty, forty, fifty years I have resisted to the best of my powers the spirit of liberalism in religion. ... the doctrine that there is no positive truth in religion, but one creed is as good as another, and this is the teaching which is gaining substance and force daily. It is inconsistent with any recognition of any religion as true. It teaches that all are to be tolerated, for all are a matter of opinion. Revealed religion is not a truth, but a sentiment and a taste; not an objective fact, not miraculous; and it is the right of each individual to make it say just what strikes his fancy. ... As to Religion, it is a private luxury which a man may have if he will; but which of course he must pay for, and which he must not intrude upon others, or indulge in to their annoyance.​

...​

"There is much in the liberalistic theory which is good and true ... justice, truthfulness, sobriety, self-command, benevolence .... "​

"There never was a device of the Enemy, so cleverly framed, and with such promise of success."​

http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/newman-and-liberalism-and-spirit-of.html

 

I wont be expecting Pope Francis to promote the work of St Maximilian Kolbe then.


The mission St. Maximilian entrusted to his Knights of the Immaculata was that of converting the whole world to the Catholic Church. He said,”Only until all schismatics and Protestants profess the Catholic Creed with conviction, when all Jews voluntarily ask for Holy Baptism – only then will the Immaculata have reached its goals.”[1]

“… In other words” Saint Maximilian insisted, “there is no greater enemy of the Immaculata and her Knighthood than today’s ecumenism, which every Knight must not only fight against, but also neutralize through diametrically opposed action and ultimately destroy. We must realize the goal of the Militia Immaculata as quickly as possible: that is, to conquer the whole world, and every individual soul which exists today or will exist until the end of the world, for the Immaculata, and through her for the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus.”[2]

Notes:
1. Rycerz Niopokalenz, 4 (1922), p. 78. Cited from The Immaculata Our Ideal, Father Karl Stehlin [Warsaw: Te Deum, 2005], p.37.
2. Entry of Diary dated April 23, 1933. Cited from The Immaculata Our Ideal, p. 37.

 

Thanks Mac.
I think our efforts here have a new patron saint, @padraig !

 

No, Brian, it is called LOVE. But thank you anyway for posting this accurate report of what the Pope said instead of the dreadful mix of truth and falsity that you normally post from lifesitenews and other similar sites.

 

​

Note the 'slight of hand' Brian has used here. No, Cardinal Newman has not rebuffed Pope Francis in any way. The passage Brian quotes says not a word about either!

For those who want to read what the great Cardinal Newman thought of ecumenism, I copy a part of a short article from Fr Peter Bristow:

We have just completed thirty years since the Catholic Church officially espoused the ecumenical movement with the decree Unitatis Redintegratio. During this time, there have been obvious abuses of the document, but one of the early forerunners of it is also one of the best examples of its faithful implementation — John Henry Newman. At the same time, he was deeply aware of the necessity of ecumenism. A long life during the nineteenth century taught him that not only was it essential to present a united front to the common enemy of secularism, but that the division of Christians was itself a principal cause of secularism. Where religion divides men, they will avoid it and forget it (thereby forgetting God) in the interests of local and national unity and secular goals.

Newman saw a way ahead for union among Christians by laying greater emphasis on the sources of Faith, Tradition and Scripture. His life was a model of dialogue with other faiths, which he was always at pains to represent with fairness and objectivity. He was careful to put over the Catholic Church in a way that was not an obstacle to such dialogue. And yet, once a Catholic, his ecumenical attitude did not stop him recognizing that he now belonged to "the Church of Christ" and consequently he saw no conflict between ecumenism and personal conversion "since they both proceed from the marvellous ways of God"
​

http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/pbristow/newman.html

 

I cannot deny that this quote (endlessly used by the trads) is a bit of a problem for those who recognize the importance of ecumenism but I would just mention that the great and holy saint was beatified by the great ecumenist Pope Paul VI and sanctified by the equally great ecumenist, Pope John Paul II.

 

Thanks for your posts David. Whenever your criticize my posts, it buttresses my points.

 

Thank you for the encouragement. I hope to continue responding to the more outrageous of your posts.

 

How is it love to not tell someone the truth?
Do you not believe that the Catholic Church is the One True Church founded by Christ?
The only way to salvation?
Or do you believe that there are many religions that can bring a person to God?

 

With respect, Praetorian, like many traditionalists, you have a simplistic view of your faith which prevents you coming to know the faith in its fullness. You have stopped listening to the Church's head on earth and will only listen to some earlier Popes with whom you feel 'comfortable'.

I realize you are not going to pay any attention to our current Holy Father but you really should try to study the writings of Pope Benedict. I quote something relevant, below:

Servais: In the Spiritual Exercises, Ignatius of Loyola does not use the Old Testament images of revenge, as opposed to Paul (cfr. 2 Thessalonians 1: 5-9); nevertheless he invites us to contemplate how men, until the Incarnation, “descended into hell” (Spiritual Exercises n. 102; see. ds iv, 376) and to consider the example of the “countless others who ended up there for far fewer sins than I have I committed” (Spiritual Exercises, n. 52). It is in this spirit that St. Francis Xavier lived his pastoral work, convinced he had to try to save from the terrible fate of eternal damnation as many “infidels” as possible. The teaching, formalized in the Council of Trent, in the passage with regard to the judgment of the good and the evil, later radicalized by the Jansenists, was taken up in a much more restrained way in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (cfr. § 5 633, 1037). Can it be said that on this point, in recent decades, there has been a kind of “development of dogma” that the Catechism should definitely take into account?

Benedict XVI: There is no doubt that on this point we are faced with a profound evolution of dogma. While the fathers and theologians of the Middle Ages could still be of the opinion that, essentially, the whole human race had become Catholic and that paganism existed now only on the margins, the discovery of the New World at the beginning of the modern era radically changed perspectives. In the second half of the last century it has been fully affirmed the understanding that God cannot let go to perdition all the unbaptized and that even a purely natural happiness for them does not represent a real answer to the question of human existence. If it is true that the great missionaries of the 16th century were still convinced that those who are not baptized are forever lost – and this explains their missionary commitment – in the Catholic Church after the Second Vatican Council that conviction was finally abandoned.
​

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/...t_xvis_recent_rare_and_lengthy_interview.aspx

 

You are the height of arrogance David!!!
You tell me what I believe and lump me into a category when you know almost nothing about me.
Now I am some simpleton who is not as "enlightened" as you.
How do you know what I read, what my faith is and who I listen to?

Honestly, the post you wrote me is the most disgusting, bigoted, rude thing anyone on this site has ever written to me.
I am sorry you do not feel I am as enlightened as you and that I do not understand my faith at all...
Truly it is you who have no concept of the Catholic faith. I feel very sorry for you.
Though I disagree with you on many things I at least thought you were a gentleman.
Apparently I was wrong.