Amen. No one wants to see dissension and discord in their parish, diocese, nation or the Church at large. Neither does a forum admin want to see it on their forum. (Been there, done that.) But what's coming is going to split many and everything is going to seem to be lost at the height of the struggle. Those most committed to orthodoxy, holiness and Our Lady will be the most viciously attacked and slandered and the True Church will seem to be eclipsed. Then ... comes the Triumph!
Yes. But I t is so difficult Brian. I was praying at mass the morning and was thinking of Christ as a 'Sign of Contradiction' as Simeon told Mary. The Warning will be the great Sign of Contradiction itself and will be the start of the rise and fall of many in Israel... the Church. Its difficult to write about such things, everyone thinks maybe if you do so you have some kind of hidden agenda and its all about Church politics anyway. So but the basic is the Church is just about to split. Most folks high and low are going to take off with the devil. The Remnant are going to go with Mary. All this has already been foretold in Revelation were it talks of Mary being chased by the dragon in to the wilderness. This isn't about Church politics it is about Prophecy, but it is so very easy to be misunderstood. Revelation 12:13 The Dragon Persecutes the Woman 13And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. 14But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.…
We have to really multiply our prayers and fasting (really hard for me) for our Shepherds these days. That is one of the greatest intentions of our Mother via the various messengers. She wants their unity with the Pope. I remember Fr. Gobbi during one of his talks explaining that the Shepherds, the Priests are the hor d'oeuvres for Satan as he views the big meal of Christ's followers and Mary's children....once he's enjoyed the hor d'oeuvres he can go for the main course, the rest of us! The Red Dragon is of course Satan and his tool is Russian Marxist Communism or dialectical materialism. Pope Francis: Christians Joining Jews in Suffering Religious Persecution Wednesday night: It is Christianity's "turn" to suffer religious persecution, Pope Francis told a World Jewish Congress delegation visiting his home in Rome Wednesday night, saying that Christians are being killed while the world remains silent. Francis and World Jewish Council President Ronald Lauder both condemned attacks against the world's Christians, reports Haaretz, particularly in the Middle East, where extremists with the Islamic State (ISIS) have targeted Christians in Iraq and Syria. "In the world, there is still great suffering," the pope told the delegation. "First it was your turn. Now it's our turn." .....“Pope Francis told us privately that he believes we are in World War Three,” said Lauder. "But unlike the first two world wars, instead of happening all at once this war is coming in stages,” he said. http://www.Newsmax.com/Newsfront/francis-christians-jews-persecution/2014/09/18/id/595508/#ixzz3DhjaG5OY
I agree that we all need to pray harder for our priests, bishops, and Pope Francis. I have been dedicating one of the decades daily for their protection and for God to lead them to speak and faithfully follow Truth One of our new priests left this week to go back to Rome for a year. As I hugged him goodbye I truly feared for him.
All this talk of demotion has me a bit baffled. Sure, in a secular world where status and position are everything to people this could be a demotion. In fact isn't it pride that gives people the belief the are above doing certain things they consider below them? I am not suggesting Cardinal Burke is like this in the least and perhaps it's only his supporters talking this way. But in the case of following the boss of the church, if Pope Francis says I need you over here, that is what you do being obedient to the hierarchy Burke has followed and understood his whole life. Francis also mentioned earlier the church isn't a place for status and position seekers but to serve the church humbly and I'm not saying C. Burke isn't anything but. Is it not possible that Francis really needs him in Malta? Is it realistic that the Pope sees a better fit for the position Burke held with another Cardinal? Americans do take things like this personally for some reason.....it's not like he just got defrocked.
Besides, Malta may be a safer place to live then Rome and the Vatican very soon according to some prophecy.
On a different note...maybe Our Holy Father is perturbed with the Cardinals for writting book before the synod. He is gathering everyone to discuss the topic of marriage and a few theologians jumped the gun. Maybe their thesis will have the same results that would have came from synod. Papa Francis might not be mad...but maybe he wasn't happy with timing of books release. Brother al
Let me get this right. All this certitude and the serious looking pic of the Pope is based on .... "Pope Francis would be irritated, " according to a high-placed source close to the Argentine Pope . I am for Burke, I am for Ratzinger I am for Apollo... As Padraig suggested, I am for getting back on our knees to find what the Spirit is saying.
Pope Francis - "I just spend the last year planning this Synod and now some Cardinal's new books have spoiled it all!"
Did Kasper "jump the gun"? Card. Kasper accused other Cardinals of attacking the Pope Posted on 18 September 2014 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf Card. Kasper, the proponent of the “tolerated by not accepted” solution, has been reacting all over the Italian secular press today. He is “surprised” at the appearance of the “Five Cardinals” Book™. His Eminence is flummoxed that he should be taken to task for what he has publicly proposed. In English you can read at CNS: “None of my brother cardinals has ever spoken with me,” the cardinal (Kasper) said. “I, on the other hand, have spoken twice with the Holy Father. I arranged everything with him. He was in agreement. What can a cardinal do but stand with the pope? I am not the target, the target is another.” Asked if the target was Pope Francis, the cardinal replied: “Probably yes.” This is untrue. I have seen the book. It was sent to me by the publisher. What Kasper said is untrue. The only way in which His Holiness is mentioned in the book is favorably. The Pope is praised. Noooo…. the target is Card. Kasper. And he knows it. That’s why he is hiding behind the Holy Father’s skirts. Specifically, the Pope is praised for his talk to the International Theological Commission when he reminded them that sensus fidelium had nothing to do with opinion polls. Francis is cited in the book, when he reiterated in April 2014 to the bishops from South Africa, Botswana and Swaziland that marriage is between one man and one woman and it is indissoluble. Francis in that same address praised St. John Paul’s Familiaris consortio as the basis for marriage instruction in these African countries. The “Five Cardinals” Book™, if it is anti-Kasper at all, can only be described as anti-Kasper Lite. If you want something weighs in more heavily, in a way directed far more pointedly at Card. Kasper by name, try the other new book coming out from Ignatius on marriage, divorce and Communion called The Gospel of the Family: Going Beyond Cardinal Kasper’s Proposal in the Debate on Marriage, Civil Re-Marriage and Communion in the Church by J. J. Pérez-Soba and S. Kampowski with a foreward by Card. Pell. Click to PRE-ORDER I am reading this book now. Here, for your edification, is a quote from Pell’s foreward: This book is important for many reasons. A courteous, informed, and rigorous discussion, indeed debate, is needed especially for the coming months to defend the Christian and Catholic tradition of monogamous, indissoluble marriage — focusing on the central elements of the challenges facing marriage and the family, rather than being distracted into a counterproductive and futile search for short-term consolations. The health of an organization can be gauged by observing the amount of time and energy devoted to the discussion of various topics. Healthy communities do not spend most of their energies on peripheral issues, and unfortunately the number of divorced and remarried Catholics who feel they should be allowed to receive Holy Communion is very small indeed. The pressures for this change are centered mainly in some European churches, where churchgoing is low and an increasing number of divorcees are choosing not to remarry. The issue is seen by both friends and foes of the Catholic tradition as a symbol — a prize in the clash between what remains of Christendom in Europe and an aggressive neo-paganism. Every opponent of Christianity wants the Church to capitulate on this issue. Both sides in this discussion appeal to Christian criteria, and everyone is dismayed by the amount of suffering caused to spouses and children by marriage breakups. What help can and should the Catholic Church offer? Some see the primary task of the Church as providing lifeboats for those who have been shipwrecked by divorce. [Kasper uses this image... "naufragio... zattera"] And lifeboats should be available for all, especially for those tragic innocent parties. But which way should the lifeboats be headed? Toward the rocks or the marshes, or to a safe port, which can only be reached with difficulty? Others see an even more important task for the Church in providing leadership and good maps to diminish the number of shipwrecks. Both tasks are necessary, but how are they best achieved? The Christian understanding of mercy is central when we are talking about marriage and sexuality, forgiveness and Holy Communion, so not surprisingly, in this excellent volume the essential links between mercy and fidelity, between truth and grace in our Gospel teaching, are spelled out clearly and convincingly. Mercy is different from most forms of tolerance, which is one of the more praiseworthy aspects of our pluralist societies. Some forms of tolerance define sin out of existence, but adult freedoms and inevitable differences need not be founded on a thoroughgoing relativism. The indissolubility of marriage is one of the rich truths of divine revelation. [...] Order the book and the read the rest! Right now its 24% off. If Card. Kasper needs a copy, I hope he’ll use my link! As a commenter said on the blog linked above, "Kasper is irked that none of his brother cardinals consulted with him before publishing this book; with how many of those brother cardinals did Kasper consult before giving his speech?"
I only wish, that after all of these special meetings where decisions that effect the average Catholic in the pew are made with so much seeming seriousness, that the people would themselves be given the straight talk from the pulpit often in order to get the truth of the Faith across to them so they will take it all seriously themselves. They say that this push back comes from only the small group of divorced and remarried Catholics. That could just be due to the fact that Catholics in this category simply receive Communion without either knowing the rules or just not caring....or they just leave the Church. Since the pews empty out at the time to receive the Eucharist one can only think that, just like those who sanction abortion in some form, or gay marriage, or vote for leaders who would persecute the Church et al, this group too would logically be among those others and simply do the same....every Sunday.
http://maryvictrix.com/2014/09/18/the-nameless-darkness-and-the-fi/#more-7940 The Nameless Darkness and the FI Posted on September 18, 2014 by Fr. Angelo M. Geiger From the usual suspect: If, as Tosatti clearly implies it is, this information is true (which would not be shocking considering the evolution of current events), the situation of the former Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate is even more suffocating than before, on a level never before seen in the Church in recent centuries (for instance, there certainly was no blacklist of dioceses incardinating as secular priests the former Jesuits after the suppression of the order in the 18th century, and in similar cases). These poor priest-friars will simply remain with no way out, other than completely abandoning the priesthood, if even the bishops willing to welcome those who want to leave the modified order are blacklisted by the highest levels in the Vatican. (Of course, if true, the bishops can still incardinate them, but are aware that they may suffer consequences) [emphasis mine]. Of course, it doesn’t matter one jot whether any of this is true because the medium by which it is delivered is the Internet. In the brave new virtual world, it is perfectly acceptable to publish whatever comes into ones head, or to repeat whatever has bubbled over from another’s into the digital network. The narrative is just assumed to be true and New Catholic, whoever he is, without any way of holding him accountable, will just say: “don’t shoot the messanger.” Yet, riding the wave of the cutting edge “reporting” of Rorate Caeli, even a “real” journalist fails to do even the least amount of due diligence before tweeting the following: This is from someone who writes for The Weekly Standard, The Wall Street Journaland The Spectator. But he is just “repeating” what he read on Rorate Caeli. Now, of course, New Catholic will deny he called the FI under commission a heretical order, but that is clearly what he meant. Why else would a friar otherwise have no way out but to abandon the priesthood? In fact, Rorate Caeli retweeted Schulman’s smear. But be sure, no one will take responsibility for spreading the lie that the friars who support the Apostolic Commission are heretics, nor will anyone take responsibility for having sowed the seed of dissension and despair by suggesting that friars confronted with the duty to obey the Church in difficult circumstances will have no choice but to leave the priesthood. The “facts” “reported” by blogs and Twitter accounts are not all the facts, my Catholic friends. Rather, these are the “facts” that are fit to print because they fit the tint. And this is precisely the problem that many of us have had with our Institute’s past association with groups like Rorate Caeli. And many traditionalists wonder why their cause is not more popular today among those who have to make policy decisions. The Internet is more often the near occasion of mortal sin (objectively speaking) than many care to admit. Behold, brethren, the Internet beast. We thank God for the free exchange of information, and well we should. But here gossip becomes fact, and such a “fact” becomes a tweetable factoid, a virtual torpedo of falsehood that will continue to damage the reputation of decent people as it ripples across the twitterverse. This kind of dissension and division within the Church, which is the fruit of falsehood and gossip, is satanic. Tosatti blames this on those around the Holy Father, but I know for a fact, that many of these rumors originate elsewhere. Romanità knows no ideological boundaries. This is a plague upon the Church and the Internet is its delivery system. The Catholic blogosphere needs a purge. We need to stop the rumor-mongering and vicious gossip.
'The Catholic blogosphere needs a purge. We need to stop the rumor-mongering and vicious gossip.' It's true, as my mother used to say, 'If you believe all you hear, you'll eat all you see'.
I don't agree with him though. If you want misinformation you are more likely to find it from established journalists than you are on the Internet. For example here is a report on the BBC which clearly creates the impression that Pope Francis has approved of cohabitation before marriage when he has actually said nothing about that: http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29198491 .
October 13, 1973 From he Church approved apparitions at Akita, Japan "My dear daughter, listen well to what I have to say to you. You will inform your superior." After a short silence: "As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests." "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres...churches and altars sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord". "The demon will be especially implacable against souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will be no longer pardon for them" "With courage, speak to your superior. He will know how to encourage each one of you to pray and to accomplish works of reparation." "It is Bishop Ito, who directs your community." And She smiled and then said: "You have still something to ask? Today is the last time that I will speak to you in living voice. From now on you will obey the one sent to you and your superior." "Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able still to save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in me will be saved." So the question is for all of us, who's side of the fence will you be on when the formal schism takes place? This is not a mythical question, but one each of us better understand now, lest we fall on the wrong side when the dust settles. As for me, I will remain on the side of unchanging doctrinal truth.
Well this synod is really gearing up to be the most anticipated Church meeting since Vat II as far as I can see and I am wondering was there not something about the Warning happening at the same time as some important synod?
^^^ yes. This is in Spanish but it speaks of this exact thing: Mother Maria de las Nieves Garcia, who was the superior of the School in Burgos where Conchita studied during the Year 1966 to 1967 and they are still close today, confirming this in the video below:
I wish the purging would begin with Rorate Caeli. Getting your "news" or "information" from them is an invitation to be deceived.
Brian I think many of us here can see that your favoured quote here could equally be used against your own good self couldn't it? "The health of a forum/contributor can be gauged by observing the amount of time and energy devoted to the discussion of various topics. Healthy forums do not spend most of their energies on peripheral issues..." You have made clear your strong personal views and we all get where you are coming from and why. That's fine, we all have our views and get upset when our personal champions seem to be being sidelined. It has always been so for protagonists on both sides in any Church debate and always will be. Now I think its time to let this go and let God. Surely there is something more important here than holding the "right view" ... - perhaps it is holding our "right views" lightly. St Paul had some very "right views" didn't he? Even the wisest and most experienced amongst us cannot always successfully second guess God or his Vicars. As a playful demo of this timeless truth to lighten the mood here, have a go at this HongKong Primary School entrance question (#21). It went viral in China last July. The majority of children can get the correct answer in less than 20 secs. The majority of their middle-class, professional HongKong parents could not. I showed it to my team of engineers (2/3 from China who regard themselves as near genius's) and after 5 minutes they had to be told the answer. I showed it to 30 fellow parishioners at a Catechetical session on Prayer this week. Only 3 persons got it at all - these three were half of the people who also believed God always answers their prayers (though not necessarily how they asked). If anybody cannot get the answer, just show it to a child. You WILL KNOW for sure when you have the correct answer (unlike God's ways): .... .... readers may like to post back how long it took you .... .... .... .... .... .... remember, only allowed 20 seconds .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ....
