http://easterncatholicspiritualrenewal.blogspot.ca/2013/01/mystically-deficient.html WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 9, 2013 Mystically Deficient For many, we of the Byzantine tradition are often referred to as the Mystical Church. Even though this title is sometimes proper there is also a contradiction since every church is in some way mystical being that Christ is the source of all true mysticism. In its normal context the term mystical when distinguishing the Byzantine tradition refers often to our heavy emphasis on personal spirituality in knowing God as opposed to seeking an intellectual doctrinal certitude. From this there is often the saying, “in the east we pray first then learn but in the west they learn first then pray”. However, even in this understanding there is to some degree an artificial depiction of Byzantine theology since the tradition does not make distinctions between theology and spirituality or theology and mysticism. As a result, for the Byzantine tradition mysticism is never separated from theology for it’s (faith) in the theology or dogmatic truth that enables the mystical experience of God. There is a popular tendency in our day to accept the mystical experience of others even though they might teach things that contradict the Church.This is done first by trying to separate a persons spirituality from what has been given through Divine Revelation.The starting point for this acceptance are the great mystics that belong to many of the world religions and cultures, which have in some way experienced something profound. The assumption is that since their experience demonstrated to some degree great spiritual results it must always be God. Consequently, in accepting all experiences as God a new kind of dogma is created and one in which relies upon the experience of these mystics to qualify as Divine Revelation. When this happens it makes any religion that makes claims to be the only true way to God false. In essence, the new dogma holds that the only true teachings found in religions are the ones that can duplicate the experience of these mystics, which makes everything else of a religion relative. In this kind of dogma that I shared above there really is not much hope for many of us. I know in my own life I feel that I am at a disadvantage as compared to the lives of some of these mystical people that have great followings. To some degree I look at myself as intellectually and socially deficient and not really capable of generating a way of life that would allow me to be a mystic like those people. Some of these people put in great effort to become what they are and others were considered touched by their gods, but me I am hopeless. Many of those mystics speak about a universal silence that transcends all our religions, which they seem to have been given the unique privilege of experiencing. The way my life is I could only dream about being in the right place and time to experience such things. Yes, even though I want God what these mystics offer to me in the end is only the shame that I can’t have what they have. When it comes to mysticism in the Byzantine tradition an experience of someone, as in the case of those mystics above, is not the criteria to determine what is of God. Along these lines, I believe as compared to what those mystics offer the Byzantine tradition offers something more radical. To paraphrase Dei Verbium 6 what God offers to those that accept Christian dogma in faith is something that transcends human experience. This is to say that for us there are no special privileged experiences that we should achieve because everyone that receives the teaching by faith receives fully everything that God is or to use the phrase from St.Diadochos of Photiki God “gives us all of grace”. This is good news for someone like me because I know that even with my many disadvantages I can be just as mystical and just as special to God as some of our greatest saints. It is a great mystery or even "mystical" to understand that because I accepted a dogma by faith, the truth of Christ, I have been given the gift of God Himself. How can everything of God be in me or as St. Symeon the New Theologian once said, "How is it I embrace You within myself, yet see you spread across the heavens?”. This one of the greatest mysteries of our faith and it is also the reason for our traditions and our teachings. God became everything that we are in Christ and in turn welcomes us to become what He is through life in the Church. It is through our spiritual traditions and teachings {dogma} that we seek to become what He is. Also, it is through these same traditions and teachings that children, the weak, the old, and people who struggle like myself find themselves becoming true mystics by learning to freely experience the Grace of God. Posted by Ric Ballard at 5:12 PM
Dear or dear I almost let this post drop off the recent posts list without reading it. I highlight that which is like a ringing gong when i read it. Thank you mothersuperior. And yet another interesting internet source to pagemark.
Yes, Jerry, THIS is what the great APOSTASY is all about. In scripture, there is only ONE great APOSTASY. its interesting, I just got home after Adoration with my family and after prayer, rosary etc. I read from Fr. Gobbi's book, which I know backwards and forward. This PARTICULAR writing/message was standing out at me. I truly don't know how to explain that as we cannot put the Holy Spirit in a box, because our ways are not always God's ways, and He chooses whom he blesses with knowledge and truth and grace; but somehow even in my own life I have explained that the protestants took away many items off of the great 'table of the truths of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church' but left so many behind that now many of their watered down 'truths' pale in comparison to the 'real' truth of the Catholic Faith. MOST CATHOLICS are watered down also. Even so much as to what Bible should I use!! I 'hear' our Lady speak of these times and she says in Fr. Gobbi’s book, “Because, by means of you who have responded to me, devotion to me is now flourishing again in all the Church. Thus I am able to exercise, in these times of yours, the great power which has been given to me by the Most Holy Trinity, to render harmless the attack which my Adversary, the Red Dragon, has unleashed against me, vomiting from his mouth a river of water to submerge me. The river of water is made up of the collection of all the new theological doctrines, which have sought to obscure the image of your heavenly Mother, to deny her privileges, to restructure devotion to her, and to cast ridicule upon all those who are devoted to her. Because of these attacks of the Dragon, in these years, piety toward me has steadily diminished among many of the faithful and , in some places, has even disappeared.” (This “river” is spoken about in revelation and seeks to ‘silence’ and ‘drown out’ our Holy Mother and her messages.) She goes on; “But to the help of your heavenly Mother, there have come the two wings of the great eagle. (Rev.) The great eagle is the word of God, above all the word contained in the Gospel of my Son Jesus. Of the four Gospels, the eagle indicates that of Saint John, because he flies higher than all, enters into the very Heart of the Most Holy Trinity, affirming with forcefulness the divinity, the eternity and the consubstantiality of the Word and the divinity of Jesus Christ. The two wings of the eagle are the word of God, received, loved and kept with faith and the word of God, received, loved and kept with faith and the word of God lived with grace and charity. The two wings of faith and of charity—that is to say, of the word of God received and lived by me—permitted me to fly above the river of water of all the attacks made upon me, because they have manifested to the world my true greatness.” (can we do this too by paying attention to what Don Bosco said is the safe harbor—The Eucharist/the Holy Father and our Holy Blessed Mother?) She continues; “And then I sought a refuge for myself in the desert. The desert, in which I have made my habitual dwelling place, is made up of the hearts and the souls of all those children who receive me, who listen to me, who entrust themselves completely to me, who consecrate themselves to my Immaculate Heart. In the desert in which I find myself, I am working today my greatest prodigies. I am working them in the heart and in the soul, that is to say, in the life of all my littlest children. Thus I am leading them to follow me along the road of faith and of charity, bringing them to receive, to love and to keep the word of God and helping them to live each day with consistency and courage. In silence and in hiddenness, that is to say, in the desert in which I find myself, I am working forcefully that my children consecrated to me believe today in the Gospel, let themselves be guided only by the wisdom of the Gospel, be ever the Gospel lived out. This is the task which I have prepared for the army which I have formed for myself in every part of the world, with my Marian Movement of Priests: to let themselves be carried with me on the two wings of the great eagle, namely of faith and of charity, receiving with love and living solely, in these times of yours, the word of God. The great prodigies which I am accomplishing today, in the desert in which I find myself, are those of transforming completely the life of my little children, that they may become courageous witnesses of faith and luminous examples of holiness. In this way, in silence and in hiddenness, each day I am preparing my great victory over the Dragon, in the triumph of my Immaculate Heart in the world.” IT TAKES MY BREATH AWAY HOW RIGHT AND TRUE THESE WORDS ARE. THEY ARE LIKE A GONG GOING OFF INSIDE OF ME!! ONE SIMPLY HAS TO SAY, 'DO IT MOTHER--TAKE CONTROL OF MY LIFE.' Are we not all transformed by our Lady? We wouldn't be on this forum if we were not....Praise be to God!
I also have to say, after those words and the words you re-printed, HOW do we tell what is right and true? We all have lost so much in our life with our LACK of Catechism. Well, its hard to tell about someone else. It really is...who is going to say Billy Graham is not speaking truth? We all know he loves Jesus. He is just 'lacking' in the 'fullness' of the faith. THE BIG PICTURE--or does he know and reject it? So many are like that! Especially Catholics. Our Lady is saying despite our ignorance, lack of Catechism etc. SHE WILL lead us to truth. Even those who do go to Mass, Adoration and listen to the Holy Father get lost tho....I've seen it. I guess it all comes down to HUMILITY AND GRACE AND a PURE HEART. I don't know what else would be needed to not go astray....I've been on fire since I said yes, and although many have tried to put that fire out, it just gets blazing and focused and keeps on going!! lol I hope I have made my self clear. I know I've rambled. I'd appreciate your input.
MS7, There is so much in your post which resonates in my heart because of Our Lady's unique and necessary role in God's plan of salvation! Yes, I have been transformed by Our Lady, especially as I've learned more about her role as Mother. I just don't have the time right now. Maybe tomorrow or Sunday. But thank you so much. I shall return! By the way, what number is this message? Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
Mary continues; “And then I sought a refuge for myself in the desert. The desert, in which I have made my habitual dwelling place, is made up of the hearts and the souls of all those children who receive me, who listen to me, who entrust themselves completely to me, who consecrate themselves to my Immaculate Heart. In the desert in which I find myself, I am working today my greatest prodigies. I am working them in the heart and in the soul, that is to say, in the life of all my littlest children. Thus I am leading them to follow me along the road of faith and of charity, bringing them to receive, to love and to keep the word of God and helping them to live each day with consistency and courage...The great prodigies which I am accomplishing today, in the desert in which I find myself, are those of transforming completely the life of my little children, that they may become courageous witnesses of faith and luminous examples of holiness.In this way, in silence and in hiddenness, each day I am preparing my great victory over the Dragon, in the triumph of my Immaculate Heart in the world.” _________________________________________________________________ MS7, I've copied these two excerpts from Our Lady's message (MMP 403) which you posted above. They shed much light on how we are to confront the times in which we live. As a man, I can look to giants such as St. Lawrence and St. Louis who were gentle, wise, and fearless in the face of the enemy. In our day, however, Jesus has placed Mary at the head of his Army to wage war, and it is a different type of warfare, as St. Paul says: 2Cor 10:3 For though we live in the world we are not carrying on a worldly war, 4 for the weapons of our warfare are not worldly but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ. In the above Mary references to Rev 12:14-17. One may ask, "How do we wage war in a desert?" Mary trains and forms us as true warriors within the desert of our hearts in silence and hiddenness. She instructs us in the Word of God, in the Gospel, so that we might both receive and live out the truth in faith and charity. Mary prepares our hearts through the consecration to her Immaculate Heart, so that guided by her fiat, we may more whole-heartedly renew our consecration to the Sacred Heart. Look what she plans on making of me, one who is to be a courageous and luminous example of holiness. Why? John 1: 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. For the darkness that JoeJerk has constructed is visible, powerful, expansive, and ever more increasingly, in-our-face. Last summer the Secretary of State spoke in Europe, calling upon the West to give human rights preeminence over religious liberty. With what speed has that cause been advanced. Homosexual rights is a key tool in this attack against God's family. And in the USA, in the UK, and in France, it is all about to be rammed down our throats. I have come to believe it is inevitable. Why? Because Jesus has chosen to defeat the plan of the enemy differently-through the humility of His Mother and her children. Humility crushes pride. David defeats Goliath. The Cross overwhelms death. Mary says: In this way, in silence and in hiddenness, each day I am preparing my great victory over the Dragon, in the triumph of my Immaculate Heart in the world. Yes persecution is coming. But the most gentle of mothers is making us courageous witnesses of faith and luminous examples of holiness. May we do our part in helping her to accomplish her mission. Let us destroy strongholds with the power Jesus provides! May the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart come! May the Reign of the Sacred Heart be established! Soon! Safe in the Father's Arms!
Mario, I agree. I also have been thinking about a few things. Last night I got to go to a 'bible study' which I had been invited to but every obstacle seemed to always be in the way. It blew me away. The gentleman who gave it was as good or better than Scott Hahn. He CLEARLY understood what he was saying and could explain it in terms that were understandable. THAT IS A GREAT GIFT! He started with Genesis. This is what he said (I took notes, but who is to say I can say what he said???) When Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden of Eden , Adam was the FIRST 'sons of God' first Adam & eve) There was Cain and Able and Cain slew Able and was cast out. Then came Noah and his family. Noah was of Adam's linage but who was Noah's Eve? The Eve that was with Noah was 'wisdom'. This wisdom loved God above all created things. (Wisdom is portrayed as a woman in the Old Testament (especially in the book of wisdom), this does not mean that women are necessarily more wise than men...but there is something fitting to this portrayal...wisdom is like a mother, giving life to her children...wisdom brings great delight to the soul, as a woman brings joy to her husband... Certainly men and women are equally capable of wisdom, but women (in a secondary, yet very real sense) are a better image for wisdom when considered in light of the complementary relationship between a woman and a man.) This linage is important. Shem and Ham were Noah's sons. Ham became defiant and Shem followed Noah and became a 'son of God'. Shem 'means name'. Anyone who did not want to 'follow the linage of Shem became an anti-shem-ite. (which later evolved into anti-semite). Ham was the son of Noah who chose NOT to follow to be a son of God. Therefore, to go against 'the name above all names' was to go against God. Everyone who stays faithful to the NAME became Jews. (faithful to the tribe of Juda). Every other person who broke away became enemies of the Jews (Ham's linage). The Jews became Israel. Those in Ham's linage were the Egyptians, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Cannonites and more. These people said they would not 'follow the God of our Fathers.' So this beginning linage is very important because these 'families' were divided up and like branches of a tree split and continued to split. It was Ham's linage that chose to build a tower of Babel. They go there and say THREE TIMES-"LET US MAKE A NAME FOR OURSELVES' (THEY DIDN'T WANT SHEM OR NOAH OR ADAM'S NAME OR LINAGE." This was a very prideful thing. They were saying they rejected God and decide that they want to build this tower of babel and they say, "Let US build this" (without God.) They are saying we are all we need, they want to be their own God. They say, "Let us build an image and a likeness of ourselves." Then the Trinity says, "Let us go down to 'confuse them." And they become confused and cannot communicate with each other and have to scatter. The most important lesson was that SHEM'S STATUS WAS NON-NEGOTIABLE. JUST LIKE THE PRIESTHOOD FOR MEN IS NON-NEGOTIABLE. Because he was God-chosen. So when it comes to the next man in line- Abram who becomes Abraham God makes himself VERY, VERY CLEAR--Genesis 12:1,2,3-- "Go forth from the land of your kinsfolk to the land that I will show you. I will make of you a great nation, I will bless you , I will make your name great so you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. All the families of the Earth will find blessing in you." This 'remnant' was to become the tribe of David. Be purified like silver and of all the 12 tribes only THIS tribe would become the vessel that gave us the child of the promise--the Blessed Virgin--the SEAT OF WISDOM, THE PURE VESSEL IN WHICH THE MESSIAH WOULD COME. We then THROUGH OUR CONSECRATION are of this remnant. Those who remain faithful to this 'LINAGE'. This linage continued as the Blessed Virgin became the new Eve and Christ became the New Adam. The new covenant was now FOR EVERYONE. Not just for the lineage of Noah, Shem, Abram etc. We have Christ fulfilling the prophesy and promises to the Patriarchs. Then in another note, we actually have the linage of the Popes to look at (good, bad and ugly) but it is UNBROKEN. If we are to look back and see where we came from and God's providential plan, we too can look forward and see that his great and glorious plan is unfolding and he keeps his promises. We ARE the children of the promises of Christ. We are our Lady's children and she is leading us there. God is the God of time and we are re-playing these events. The tower of Babel is here again! Those who are choosing NOT TO FOLLOW Christ are falling away. THE BIBLE ONLY HAS ONE GREAT APOSTASY. WHICH IS IN REVELATION. THAT IS HAPPENING NOW... So we can be sure we are in the 'end of days' which scripture speaks about. Be prepared to be refined like silver! I found this to be fascinating and it taught me! Which is always good....
Dear MS7. I apologize for the time taken in responding. To tell the truth i would have preferred to slink away. I am very happy Mario responded, for his response was i feel, the deserved reassuring echo of holy joy you feel in your heart. I do not have such a feeling. So i must instead stay on the safe ground of responding to another more factual point you raised. "There is a popular tendency in our day to accept the mystical experience of others even though they might teach things that contradict the Church.... The starting point for this acceptance are the great mystics that belong to many of the world religions and cultures, which have in some way experienced something profound. The assumption is that since their experience demonstrated to some degree great spiritual results it must always be God." And i think i am correct that it is this which you have responded to with "THIS is what the great APOSTASY is all about. In scripture, there is only ONE great APOSTASY." I respond so: You may be right. But at the moment i hope not because i would be dammed. I exaggerate i hope. : I know i must believe that there is only one true faith to ensure salvation and the only way is with the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. But my heart tells me this is 'unfair'. What of all those people brought up and practising other religions faithfully and sincerely? When the original article uses the term 'great spiritual results' i take it to mean a change or an affirming of how that person behaves with love towards another. So. i 'hope' rather, that the great apostasy is instead the time when people give up believing in God.
Jerry I think that we both know that we cannot put the Holy spirit in a box, nor would we want to. Everyone has different 'journeys to the truth.' Someone on the forum said what the Church teaches and that is that we never know who is going to make it to heaven or hell. Only God knows. We CAN KNOW HIS LAWS HOWEVER. This question came up tonight and my daughter and I were talking. I told her that who am I to think that I am somehow superior knowing God's law than someone else living in Africa in the jungle who has never heard the good news of Jesus Christ and God's law? TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN , MUCH WILL BE ASKED. That in itself keeps me humble and then I am able to love with unconditional love. BECAUSE--IF I KNOW GOD'S LAW AND HIS COMMAND IS TO KNOW HIM, LOVE HIM, AND SERVE HIM---then we are all children of God. BUT GRACE IS NOT FREE. I KNOW I AM BLESSED. It would be like treating a baby bad because they were not as intelligent as us!! The great Apostasy is the time when people quit believing in God. We are going thru it now. Its 'unfolding'. Like a frog in a pot! It will however be UNPRECEDENTED how bad it will be. And the persecution will be horrific. Are we on the same page? I hope I helped and didn't hinder...
