Sg, This is interesting, thank you for posting it. I could not check what he says about 153 nations in 1917(?) but I wonder now if there is something prophetic about 203. I mean, maybe there are 203 nations in the world right now. I looked this up and this could be the case. The following is from Wikipedia: The 206 listed states can be divided into three categories based on membership within the United Nations system: 193 member states,[1] two observer states and 11 other states. The sovereignty dispute column indicates states whose sovereignty is undisputed (190 states) and states whose sovereignty is disputed (16 states, of which there are six member states, one observer state and nine other states). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states But if we don't count the two observer states which are the Vatican and Palestine then there are 204 states and as of August 21, 2018 a few nations including the Vatican recognize Taiwan as being part of the Republic of China, so that would make 203 nations currently. It is also interesting that China is a communist nation and the resurgence of communism in the world is prophetic to Our Lady of Garabandal. I am sort of rambling a little bit but I think that there may be something to this. So in other words, if we include the Luminous Mysteries in the Rosary than we say 203 Hail Mary's in total and we could count 203 nations currently as of this past August, hmmm. I could not find the number 203 in scripture at all but I still think that there may be 203 nations currently in the world and this is a bit interesting imho. I welcome any thoughts on this, thank you.
Yes thank you Sg, the significance of the number 153 is definately apparent and important! I think Carol in on to something too in regards to the theme of fishers of men and the Nations at that time being 153 as stated in the article and now there is 203 Nations/States! 153 In 2002 Pope John Paul II announced five new mysteries to the rosary, called the Luminous Mysteries. They were introduced in his Apostolic Letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae. Before the addition of these mysteries, there were 15 mysteries ― five Joyous, five Sorrowful and five Glorious ― known as the whole Rosary. The Hail Marys in these 15 mysteries along with the three preliminary Hail Marys, would number153, if you continue reciting the 15 mysteries, one after another. (It should be noted that a third of the whole rosary is also called a Rosary.) Praying the Rosary was part of the message of Fatima of 1917. It's interesting to realize thatthe span of time covered by Mary's appearances at Fatima, from May 13th to October 13th, adds up to153 as well―153 days. You may do the addition of the days yourself: May (18); June (30); July (31); August (31); September (30); and October (13). There is something else about that figure of 153 that could be associated with the rosary. The number 153 is found in Scripture, in John 21:4-13. It's the number of fish caught at the direction of Christ and hauled ashore in a net. So what might 153 fish have to do with the Rosary? Consider this footnote in the Gospel of John, found in a Spanish language Bible, La Nueva Biblia - Latinoamerica, Juan 21: Los apostoles arrastran en sus redes 153 peces grandes: Ahora bien, en ese tiempo el numero conocido de las naciones del universo era 153; de moda que la pesca milagrosa representa la accion de la iglesia. Los Pastores de la iglesia llevaran en sus redes hacia Cristo a todas las naciones de la tierra. (The apostles dragged in their nets153 big fish. Now then, at that time the number of known nations in the world was 153. This way the miracle of the fish represents the action of the church. The shepherds of the church carried in their nets toward Christ all the nations of the earth). At Fatima the Blessed Virgin Mary asked that the Rosary be prayed for peace in the world. Jesus told Peter in Matt. 4:19, "I will make you fishers of men." In John 21:9-10 when they came ashore, they saw a fish laid on the coals. Jesus said to His disciples: "Bring hither of the fishes which you have now caught." The fish was not only a symbol for Christ, but it represented his followers as well. It could just as well represent the nations Christianized. Jesus would want the whole world to come unto Him. The Greek word ichthus, meaning fish, spells out the initial letter or two of the words in the Greek phrase Iesous Christos, Theou Uios, Soter (Ιησους Χρίστός Θεου Υιός Σωτήρ). It sums up a some very important facts about Our Lord, and when you think about it, it goes along with the Rosary which is Christ-centered. Pope John Paul II said in his Apostolic Letter, "The Rosary, though clearly Marian in character, is at heart a Christocentric prayer." Even the last two Glorious Mysteries with their focus on Mary, tell us how Jesus honored His mother. Is there a linkage of the 153 Hail Marys, the 153 days of Fatima and the 153 fish? I believe all three can be associated together. The Rosary's meant for meditation and we can "set out into the deep," cast our net into the depths, contemplate the mysteries, and hope to come up with something more Christlike—and pray to internalize it in our lives and the lives of others in the world. If you want to use your imagination, think of the Rosary beads being like floats on a net. Visualize the loop of beads being drawn across the surface of the water, and down in the water, the net to catch the minds and hearts of men, which drawn forth, bring a better world to the earthly shore. ― John Riedell Great work Carol! Something else that is interesting is the 153 days from 13 May to the 13 of October! and we know that the 13 October is the culmination of the Fatima events, so if we add the extra 50 days to the 153 [that is 203 days] it takes us exactly to the 25 th March the most Holy Feast of the Annunciation Of the Angel Gabriel to Our Lady and the Incarnation of Our Lord Jesus in the womb of Mary. The very first Mystery! Now that can't be just a coincidence! The Luminous mysteries instituted by St JPII have given us 203 Hail Marys which now cover the 203 Nations of the world today! and Our Lady at Fatima has even taken into account the extra 50 days by making sure that by there addition to her Apparitions at Fatima point to the First Mystery of the Rosary!
I'm not so sure that there are a total of 203 countries/ nations in the world right now. It seems that it all depends on what criteria are being used. Even from the wikipedia article cited above, the list actually includes 206 nations. And what good reason would there be to exclude the (UN) observer states from that number? If one looks at other criteria, the number of countries varies widely. The following article summarizes it nicely: (continues..)
How Many Countries Are There in the World in 2018? https://www.polgeonow.com/2011/04/how-many-countries-are-there-in-world.html This article, originally from 2011, has been revised and updated to January 2018. You can view some older versions of the article in our archives. One of the most basic questions for map-lovers is, "How many countries are there in the world?" But anyone who just gives you a number isn't telling the whole truth. It actually depends a lot on how you define a "country". Here are six of the most common answers, each correct in its own way: Vatican City (represented by the Holy See) and Palestine. If you want to know the names of all 195, Wikipedia has a complete list. The last addition to the list was in 2012, when Palestine became a UN Observer State, and the last time the number of full UN members changed was when South Sudan joined in 2011. Note: Palestine's approval as a UN Observer State was controversial, so some lists may still only have 194 countries. 201 States With At Least Partial Recognition Several more country candidates are left out of the UN itself, but are still officially acknowledged by at least one UN member (this kind of official acceptance is called "diplomatic recognition"). These controversial countries are usually labeled on world maps as disputed territories or special cases, if they're on the map at all. Kosovo is claimed by Serbia, but recognized as independent by over 100 countries. UN Members: 193 UN Observer States: 2 States With Partial Recognition: 6 Total: 201 The six non-UN states with partial recognition are Taiwan, Western Sahara, Kosovo, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, and Northern Cyprus. All of these are claimed as parts of other countries, but aren't actually controlled by them (at least not completely). The number of UN members recognizing them varies, from just one for Northern Cyprus to over 100 for Kosovo. A few lists also include the Cook Islands and Niue as partially-recognized states. These two places sometimes act like independent countries, but they've never actually declared independence or tried to join the UN. They're usually considered to be highly self-governing overseas territories of New Zealand. 204-207 De Facto Sovereign States But wait, there's more! Those six partially recognized countries aren't the only breakaway states with full self-governance. There are at least three more self-declared countries that aren't recognized by any UN members at all, but still operate independently from the countries that claim them. These are often called "de facto" sovereign states, a fancy Latin way of saying they're independent countries in actual fact, even if not on paper. UN Members: 193 UN Observer States: 2 States With Partial Recognition: 6 Unrecognized de facto Sovereign States: 3 to 6 (see below) Total: 204 to 207 The three places most often considered de facto independent countries are Nagorno-Karabakh, Transnistria, and Somaliland. And since 2014 there have been three more contenders for the list, questionable because they're located in active war zones and have only limited government structures: The so-called "Islamic State" is almost out of the running now that it's lost most of its territory in Syria and Iraq, but the Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic, which claim independence from Ukraine, don't seem to be going anywhere. Tiny "micronations" declared by individual people usually aren't taken seriously enough to put on the list. The closest contender would be Sealand, but it's debatable whether this tiny "nation" really counts as having a territory, population, or government, all key ingredients for a sovereign state. There are also many rebel-held territories (and fully self-governing areas like Puntland state in Somalia) that aren't controlled by any country, but are left off the list because they don't claim to be independent. They agree in principle that they're part of another country, even though they might disagree about who should be in charge, or how the country should be governed. 206 Olympic Nations Lots of people learn about the world's list of countries by watching the Olympic Games every two years. If you're one of them, you might be confused at why the Olympic Parade of Nations claims over 200 members, even though your atlas only has 195. This is because the Olympics didn't always require applicants to be independentcountries. Dependent territories with partial self-government have sometimes been approved by the International Olympic Committee (IOC), and a couple of the partially-recognized states mentioned above have also managed it. Olympic Nations that are UN Member States: 193 Olympic Nations that are UN Observer States: 1 Olympic Nations that are Partially-recognized States: 2 Olympic Nations that are Dependent Territories: 10 Total IOC-Recognized Olympic Nations: 206 About half of the dependent territories in the Olympics are overseas possessions of the US (like Puerto Rico) or the UK (like Bermuda). Some nearly-independent "countries" like the Cook Islands (associated with New Zealand) and Aruba (a "constituent country" of the Netherlands) are included too. Every UN member country is also in the Olympics, with the latest addition, South Sudan, joining in August 2015. The one UN Observer State in the Olympics is Palestine; Vatican City apparently isn't interested. As for the two partially-recognized countries in the games, Kosovo became an Olympic Nation in 2014, and Taiwan has been a member for some time, but has to call itself "Chinese Taipei" after a deal struck with China in the 1980s. Learn More: Parade of Nations: Which Countries Are (and Aren't) in the Olympics (continues...)
211 FIFA Countries Eligible for the World Cup Soccer - or "football" as it's known in many countries - is the world's most popular sport, and most international matches all the way up to the World Cup are regulated by an organization called FIFA. If you're a soccer super-fan, you might know that, until recently, there were 209 member countries that compete in FIFA matches (even though most don't make it to the World Cup). That's already more than the number of Olympic Nations, and definitely more than the total independent countries on most world maps. Like the Olympics, FIFA didn't always require independence or international recognition for its members. Now it's a bit stricter, but any team that's already a member is allowed to stay. The two newest members, which joined in May 2016, both made it in under special circumstances: Kosovo, a partially-recognized country, was voted in after being recognized by more than half of the UN's members; and Gibraltar, an overseas territory of the UK, recently got a court order allowing it in without being independent. Based on European tradition, FIFA also allows England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland to compete as separate teams, even though they're all part of the UK. Teams of UN Member States: 186 Teams of UN Observer States: 1 Teams of Partially Recognized States: 2 Teams of UK Constituent Countries: 4 Teams of Dependent Territories: 18 Total FIFA Member Associations: 211 You might notice that not all of the 193 UN member states are included. That's because several very small countries aren't members, plus the UK is replaced by its four "constituent countries", which aren't UN members on their own. Learn More: Which Countries Are (and Aren't) Part of FIFA? (2014) 249 Country Codes in the ISO Standard List Ever been filling out an internet form, and had to choose from a surprisingly long list of countries? You were probably looking at the international standard "country code" list, formally known as ISO 3166-1. Lots of companies and other organizations adopt this standard list instead of spending their own time compiling one. The standard also includes convenient two-letter codes for each country, like us for the United States, defor Germany, and jp for Japan, which you might recognize from website addresses specific to those countries. This ISO standard is based on an official list kept by the UN...but then why on Earth are there 249 country codes? That's way more than the total number of UN member and observer countries! Well, the standard list does leave out some breakaway states not recognized by the UN, but makes up for it by listing dependent territories separately from their parent countries. In other words, the ISO list is more an answer to the question, "How many countries and territories in the world?" than "How many countries in the world?" This means there are "country codes" not just for actual countries, but also for nearly-independent states, overseas colonies, uninhabited islands, and even Antarctica! This is important, because organizations might need an option for every place that any person can be located, and dependent territories often aren't technically part of the countries they belong to. UN Members: 193 UN Observer States: 2 States With Partial Recognition: 2 Inhabited Dependent Territories: 45 Uninhabited Territories: 6 Antarctica: 1 Total: 249 So there you have it! Next time someone tells you "There are 194 countries in the world," remember that the real answer isn't so simple!
I am inclined to place more emphasis on the facts that: 1) the rosary first developed from the Psalms, which number 150 (therefore the original rosary had a total of 150 Hail Marys in the mysteries), "From the time Saint Dominic established the devotion to the holy Rosary up to the time when Blessed Alan de la Roche reestablished it in 1460, it has always been called the Psalter of Jesus and Mary. This is because it has the same number of Hail Marys as there are psalms in the Book of the Psalms of David. Since simple and uneducated people are not able to say the Psalms of David, the Rosary is held to be just as fruitful for them as David's Psalter is for others." https://www.theholyrosary.org/rosaryhistory 2) in the original form given to St Dominic, there were only the Joyful, Sorrowful and Glorious Mysteries, and 2) Our Blessed Mother asked us to meditate on the 15 mysteries of the rosary on First Saturdays. Also, as far as I am aware, Pope JPII never really explained why he decided to add the Luminous Mysteries. Nothing mentioned about any Divine Inspiration/ Vision etc. Speculation is that it was part of his ecumenical efforts. In his apostolic letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae he talked about making the rosary more Christ- or Scripture- centred. “Of the many mysteries of Christ’s life, only a few are indicated by the Rosary in the form that has become generally established with the seal of the Church’s approval,” he wrote. “I believe, however, that to bring out fully the Christological depth of the Rosary it would be suitable to make an addition to the traditional pattern which, while left to the freedom of individuals and communities, could broaden it to include the mysteries of Christ’s public ministry between his baptism and his passion.” “Consequently, for the Rosary to become more fully a ‘compendium of the Gospel,’ it is fitting to add, following reflection on the Incarnation and the hidden life of Christ (the joyful mysteries) and before focusing on the sufferings of his Passion (the sorrowful mysteries) and the triumph of his Resurrection (the glorious mysteries), a meditation on certain particularly significant moments in his public ministry (the mysteries of light),” he continued. I will stick with praying the original version of the Rosary.
Hi , in haste, Praetorian. Its in the memoirs, but Im not sure where off the top of my head and would have to go through them again to find it. I did a quick search and you can see it here; http://www.worldfatima.com/en/fatima-prayers. Taylor Marshall mentions it here, but he is not fully aware of the TWO differences and only mentiones the one. ;https://taylormarshall.com/2012/09/origin-of-fatima-prayer-in-holy-rosary.html Also see: "The John de Marchi piece from 1952 quotes it as "O my Jesus, forgive us and deliver us from the fire of hell. Take all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need." http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/TSFATIMA.htm I will try to find more... Somewhere, I have the memoirs in the original Portuguese and I have studied that language so I will go back to source...
As AED said, you explain it perfectly. Thank you for laying it out so clearly. I'm still happy to pray the Luminous mysteries on Thursdays. That Pope John Paul didn't claim to have Divine inspiration doesn't mean that he wasn't following the Holy Spirit's guidance when he introduced the Luminous mysteries or that what he did wasn't prophetic, irrespective of the reason he gave. There's nothing in the Luminous mysteries that contradicts the faith, and we can get the same indulgences by praying them as we can by praying the Joyful, Sorrowful or Glorious mysteries. I'm not trying to be picky here, but there seems to be confusion about the First Saturdays and meditating on the mysteries. I thought, perhaps mistakenly, that Our Lady asked that we spend 15 minutes meditating on Christ's passion, which would be the Sorrowful mysteries. I have heard some priests say that it's ok to choose one mystery of the Rosary and meditate on that. You say that we are to meditate on the original 15 mysteries, which would be one minute of meditation per mystery. What did Our Lady actually ask us to meditate on?
Sr Lucy said in her writings to choose one of the mysteries and meditate on it or meditate on all of them which brings us through the whole life of Christ.
Josephite, Thank you! Your observation is very interesting also, great find! I wish I had the list of nations that John Riedell used in 1917. It is a little difficult to believe that there were only 153 nations in 1917, I believe that is what he is stating. Another thought occurred to me maybe 153 is very significant including a possible connection in scripture per John Riedell because I wonder if after the prophecies of Fatima come to complete fruition if there will only be 153 nations in the world once again especially considering that the seers were told, "The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated". This is more conjecture, of course. Sg, I did point out that Wikipedia lists 206 nations in my post and I explained that I was eliminating 3 and therefore, I consider there to be 203 nations in the world currently. For me it is obvious to eliminate Palestine and the Vatican (the only 2 UN observer states) from the count and I explained why I was not including Taiwan in the count either. I agree that the number of nations in the world is difficult to determine and I believe that it probably was always difficult to determine but somehow John Riedell from the link that you posted came up with 153 nations in 1917(?) and I am conjecturing just like he did. I find it interesting, very interesting that is all. Josephite's find makes it even more interesting, the fact that there are 203 days from March 25th (the Annunciation and the first mystery of the Rosary) to October 13th (the day of the Miracle of the Sun) especially since John Riedell has also pointed out that there are 153 days between May 13th and October 13th, the first and last appearance of the Blessed Mother at Fatima.
According to the info provided on The Fatima Center's website, this is what Sr Lucia said about the meditations: http://archive.fatima.org/crusader/cr49/cr49ap1.asp#b "Here is my way of making the meditations" In this devotion which is so simple and so easy, Sister Lucy writes to her mother, "it seems to me that the fifteen minutes of meditation are what might give you some difficulty. But it is quite easy." We have said that it is a question only "of keeping Our Lady company for fifteen minutes" and it is not at all necessary to meditate on all fifteen mysteries of the Rosary, but one or two can be chosen. In a letter quoted by Father Martins, Sister Lucy writes: "Here is my way of making the meditations on the mysteries of the Rosary on the first Saturdays: First mystery, the Annunciation of the Angel Gabriel to Our Lady. First prelude: to imagine myself seeing and hearing the Angel greet Our Lady with these words: "‘Hail Mary, full of grace.’ Second prelude: I ask Our Lady to infuse into my soul a profound sentiment of humility. "1st point: I will meditate on the manner in which Heaven proclaims that the Most Holy Virgin is full of grace, blessed among all women and destined to become the Mother of God. "2nd point: The humility of Our Lady, recognizing Herself and declaring Herself to be the handmaid of the Lord. "3rd point: How I must imitate Our Lady, in Her humility, what are the faults of pride and arrogance through which I most often displease the Lord, and the means I must employ to avoid them, etc. "On the second month, I make the meditation on the second joyful mystery. The third month, I make it on the third joyful mystery and so on, following the same method of meditating. When I have finished the Five First Saturdays, I begin five others and meditate on the sorrowful mysteries, then the glorious ones, and when I have finished them I start over again with the joyful ones."
Thank you for the story about the scented branch...I’ve never heard that before! See how Our Lady used a simple branch, scented from her heavenly feet, to open the mother’s heart. I wonder if that branch is still in existence?
I found the part of the Fr. John de Marchi book, which is called 'Mother of Christ Crusade.' Here is a continuing excerpt from when Jacinta and Francisco were showing Maria Rosa the branch: The whole family gathered and each wanted to hold the branch and smell the beautiful odor. "Leave it here, Jacinta. Someone will come along who will be able to tell what kind of odor it is." From that moment, Lucia's mother and her whole family began to modify their opposition towards the apparitions. Jacinta then took the branch and hurried home to show it to her own mother and father. Ti Marto tells of the occasion in his own words. "I had taken a round of my properties on that day. After sunset, as I was drawing near my house, a friend of mine met me and said, "Ti Marto, the miracle is becoming clearer." 'What do you mean?' I said, not knowing anything about the apparition at Valinhos or the branch. 'You know, Our Lady appeared again, just a little while ago, to your children and Lucia at Valinhos. You can believe it is true. I want to tell you that your Jacinta has something special. She (Jacinta) had not (initially) gone with the others (Lucia and Francisco) and a boy came (back) to call her (to the grazing site). Our Lady did not appear until she arrived!' I shrugged my shoulders. I didn't know what to answer, but I was thinking about what my friend said as I reached the yard of my house. My wife was not at home. I went into the kitchen and sat down. Jacinta came right in with a big smile on her face and a little branch in her hand. 'Look, Father, Our Lady appeared to us again at Valinhos!' As she came in I sensed a magnificent fragrance which I could not explain. I stretched out my hands toward the branch saying, 'What are you bringing in, Jacinta?' 'It is the little branch on which Our Lady placed her feet.' I smelled it but the odor had gone." Our Lady did not have to perform a miracle to prove her case to him. I am always surprised to read the numerous ways of how each person is given just what they need to believe.
Thank you again for adding to this seemingly little story...but really, it is not so unimportant. It was the turning point for the parents of the seers.. Especially Lucia’s parents. It’s understandable how they must have felt about Our Lady appearing. Our Lady fixed that!
I think that I posted the following link to The Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima movie somewhat recently on the forum but here it is again since we have been discussing these events on this thread. I am not certain how accurate the details of the movie are but the movie probably gives a reasonable idea of what the seers and their parents went through at the time of the apparitions. I hope that you enjoy the film. I think that it may not play in the Explorer browser but I know that it plays in FireFox and it probably plays in Google Chrome also. https://gloria.tv/video/JaCQyJA31Jb816LaA3Fvk2U3y
Thank you Carol...I have looked for it on you tube, but could never find it. I’ve wanted to send it to friends and family...some who have never heard about Fatima...Catholics none the less! I first saw it in the first grade and it’s stayed with me my whole life. I now promote Fatima at church events. It’s sad how many are totally unaware of it and it’s message. It changed my life, hopefully it will open eyes for others as well. The song of Bernadette is on you tube...I’ve watched it numerous times....another beautiful story unknown to our youth. I purchased both films and distributed them to our local catholic schools...hoping it will impact their lives as well...God willing. Thank you for sharing this...I can now email this link to others!
