Divine Will revisited.

Daniel,
I have a question for you: In Revelation 20 after Satan is released to wage a final war on the saints (who in Fr. Ianuzzi's theory are resurrected already) what is the point of satan encircling their camp (v 9) if they are untouchable?

 

There will be the children of the remnant born during this era who have not as yet met with a test, Satan having been chained, as the parents/remnant who have already been tested during the purification before this Era of the Divine Will and remained faithful through the terrible trials. So this offspring will be those who must be involved in this final battle in order to be tested as well. There will have been the martyrs of the previous purification but the remnant although having passed the test did not have to go through martyrdom. At least this is the estimation by those who have studied the new era. Thus only a portion have been resurrected amongst the whole.

 

But the key point is also that an Era of Peace before the Second Coming is also not ruled out.

Abbott Vonier does not rule out divine intervention. What he rules out is "..a coming of Christ and a presence of him in glory and majesty on this earth which would not be the consummation of all tings but would still be a portion of the history of mankind."

 

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Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith



NOTIFICATION*









Many Bishops, priests, religious and lay people have sought an authoritative judgement from this Congregation on the activity of Mrs Vassula Ryden, a Greek Orthodox residing in Switzerland, who in speech and in writing is spreading in Catholic circles throughout the world messages attributed to alleged heavenly revelations.

A calm, attentive examination of the entire question, undertaken by this Congregation in order to "test the spirits to see whether they are of God" (cf. 1 Jn 4:1), has brought out – in addition to positive aspects – a number of basic elements that must be considered negative in the light of Catholic doctrine.

In addition to pointing out the suspect nature of the ways in which these alleged revelations have occurred, it is necessary to underscore several doctrinal errors they contain.

Among other things, ambiguous language is used in speaking of the Persons of the Holy Trinity, to the point of confusing the specific names and functions of the Divine Persons. These alleged revelations predict an imminent period when the Antichrist will prevail in the Church. In millenarian style, it is prophesied that God is going to make a final, glorious intervention which will initiate on earth, even before Christ's definitive coming, ah era of peace and universal prosperity. Furthermore, the proximate arrival is foretold of a Church which would be a kind of pan-Christian community, contrary to Catholic doctrine.



The fact that the aforementioned errors no longer appear in Ryden's later writings is a sign that the alleged "heavenly messages" are merely the result of private meditations.



Moreover, by habitually sharing in the sacraments of the Catholic Church, even though she is Greek Orthodox, Mrs Ryden is causing considerable surprise in various circles of the Catholic Church. She appears to be putting herself above all ecclesiastical jurisdiction and every canonical norm, and in effect, is creating an ecumenical disorder that irritates many authorities, ministers and faithful of her own Church, as she puts herself outside the ecclesiastical discipline of the latter.



Given the negative effect of Vassula Ryden's activities, despite some positive aspects, this Congregation requests the intervention of the Bishops so that their faithful may be suitably informed and that no opportunity may be provided in their Dioceses for the dissemination of her ideas. Lastly, the Congregation invites all the faithful not to regard Mrs Vassula Ryden's writings and speeches as supernatural and to preserve the purity of the faith that the Lord has entrusted to the Church.



Vatican City, 6 October 1995.



Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect

Tarcisio Bertone, S.D.B.Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
Secretary



* L’Osservatore Romano, English Edition, N. 43, 25 October 1995, Page 12.

 

In fact some of the early Church Fathers spoke of an "interim coming".

 

I will try to act my age . I cant make any promises. But at least for a while I will try.
Stephen has made some interesting points already about Fr Iannuzzi. Can you refute them?

 

Ok, so in that case the ones born just after the era begins have to wait 1000 years (until satan is unleashed) until their trial begins? And as such cannot taste death because that would initiate their purification leading to the beatific vision. The text only makes sense if we understand the term "saints" in its proper biblical sense (as St. Paul used frequently) in order to describe the early christians. These saints therefore are not the resurrected from the dead, but simply those alive during the great tribulation and final persecution of the Antichrist-which we have on the authority of the catechism occurs not prior to this so called era of peace but directly before the last judgment (as confirmed by popes time and time again and in the visions of St Hildegard)

 

I never said anything about Revelation 20 or about the saints "rising first." These straw men are precisely what cropped up last time we discussed this matter -- you seem to want me to defend everything that anyone has ever said about the Era of Peace. All I'm saying is that there will indeed be one; I am not particularly interested in the specifics of it, except that indeed God's Will shall be done "On Earth as it is in Heaven," as Our Lord prayed -- and His prayers are always answered.

 

Things actually get interesting around here ,and you go quiet.
Whats with that?

 

Well its just that you seem to support Fr. Ianuzzi's thesis. Is that not correct then?

 

Daniel,
I notice in your resources section from your ebook you site Fr Iannuzzi's Slendour of Creation in which this whole thesis is promoted. Again, I would ask you to show just one approved private revelation which teaches this spiritual millenium theory. I think you will find there is none.
http://www.amazon.com/Heralds-Secon.../ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

 

"The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me and she will be converted, AND AN ERA OF PEACE WILL BE GRANTED TO THE WORLD." (Sister Mary Lucia of the Immaculate Heart, "Fatima in Lucia's Own Words"

 

Two different eras of peace.

 

This era of peace is a reprieve from Our Lady and it has nothing to do with millenarianism or with the promised time of the peace of the new heaven and the new earth, where there will be no more tears.

It is a little reprieve before the final chastisment!

Consider.....

In the Apparition of 13 July 1917 after Our Lady showed the children hell, the Blessed Virgin said......

You have seen hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. It is to save them that God wants to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If you do what I tell you, many souls will be saved, and there will be peace. This war will end, but if men do not refrain from offending God, another and more terrible war will begin during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night that is lit by a strange and unknown light [this occurred on January 28, 1938], you will know it is the sign God gives you that He is about to punish the world with war and with hunger, and by the persecution of the Church and the Holy Father.


To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph.

The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.”

On the 25 March 1984 which was (the feast of the Incarnation of Jesus the word made flesh and the annunciation of the Angel Gabriel to the Blessed Virgin Mary), the Holy father St Pope John Paul 11 in St. Peter's Square and Before the Holy Year Mass for Families, with the Statue of Our Lady of Fatima, brought from Fatima to Rome for this purpose by the Bishop of Leiria-Fatima next to the main altar, the Holy Father in union with the Bishops of the world Consecrated
the world including Russia 'To the Immaculate Heart of Mary'

On August 29, 1989 Sr. Lucia affirms in correspondence that the consecration of Russia “has been accomplished” and that “God will keep His word.”.

Now consider..........
Exactly 33 years to the day prior to the great Miracle of the Sun in Fatima, that is, on October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII had a remarkable vision.

When asked what had happened, he explained that, as he was about to leave the foot of the altar, he suddenly heard voices - two voices, one kind and gentle, the other guttural and harsh. They seemed to come from near the tabernacle. As he listened, he heard the following conversation..........

The guttural voice, of Satan in his pride, boasted to Our Lord:"I can destroy your Church."

The gentle voice of Our Lord:"You can? Then go ahead and do so."

Satan:"To do so, I need more time and more power."

Our Lord:"How much time? How much power?

Satan:"75 to 100 years, and a greater power over those who will give themselves over to my service."

Our Lord:"You have the time, you will have the power. Do with them what you will".


In 1984 the 100 years that satan had requested to distroy the Church had expiated! but Our Lady had appeared 33 years after this confrontation in 1917 and gave us a reprieve if the Holy Father would consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart.

Since 1984 we have had that interim period of peace!

So now is the time of the culmination or the show down if you like for the ultimate battle of revelations between the humility of the Blessed Virgin which opposes the the pride of satan!


I believe St Pope John Paul 11 saved us all in 1984 from certain doom and now we await the chastisment and the final hour.!!!!

Praise God and may His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven, and His Kingdom come. Amen.

 

Those martyrs who proved themselves during the purification's persecutions will be resurrected to live in this "interim" era as they deserve. Those martyrs and those who live in the Divine Will will stand out/be recognized in a special way throughout all eternity. And that 1000 years is never, whenever the term is used throughout scripture, taken literally. 1000 years is like a day with God....His time which no one knows for certain. The life span, due to what was always intended originally by the Creator since it was as well effected by original sin, is not to be judged by our measure in this current time anyway. Those who have experienced some type of lifting of the vail that separates us from the other side speak to seeming like days there due to the amount of knowledge given and what was experienced, learned that they were actually gone from this earth only minutes! An era is to come in which Satan is to be banned, therefore even better than the original garden since Satan was roaming about then; then released to tempt again. It is the second Pentecost; a supernatural era as always intended by the Father to have His Will realized among the creatures....with the new light, supernatural, THEN, in the end, Satan is demolished to his own fires forever and THEN comes the final judgement. Those given insights into this New Era state anyway that death will not be considered then as now....since the Divine Will living among the creatures, finally, brings "death" to its true meaning, our true birth. People, when their time comes, they will know it in the Divine Will, and simply understand their time and rejoice instead of sadness and go. You can't speak to this era with the same limited knowledge of this corrupt time in which we live. It is completely different and beyond our normal way of thinking. It can only be understood through the Holy Spirit since it will be a New Pentecost with all the Gifts and Fruits...the preternatural gifts.

And about the character assassination of particular theologians of choice here....if you don't understand their authorized research just on this topic alone, with much more attention to facts than those with obvious limited knowledge and understanding, and...I would add....a kind of fear of the future if it doesn't conform to the status quo way of thinking, then take it up with them with an openness that just perhaps you may learn something you've been missing instead of the attempt to degrade them in the eyes of others. Or simply write Mark Mallett who has written much on the topic, solely based on the Early Church Fathers, other theologians, the Church's own stance, Saints and approved mystics down the centuries.

 

From Mark M's latest:

You will prepare the world for My final coming. —Jesus to St. Faustina, Divine Mercy in My Soul, Diary, n. 429

But Pope Benedict makes the important point:

If one took this statement in a chronological sense, as an injunction to get ready, as it were, immediately for the Second Coming, it would be false. —Light of the World, A Conversation with Peter Seewald, p. 180-181

...
Revelation 12 speaks about an intervention of “a woman clothed in the sun” who battles against a dragon (the woman being a symbol of both Mary and the People of God). It speaks about a breaking of Satan’s power, but not a chaining (that comes later; see Ch. 20). The chapter then ends with Satan poised to centralize his remaining power into a “beast.” That is to say that Chapter Twelve of Revelation has everything to do with what John Paul II said: a direct prelude to a confrontation with an antichrist. And as must be repeated again, it is this defeat of the “beast and false prophet” that the Church Fathers, several contemporary theologians, and the “prophetic consensus” of contemporary mystics have said, leads to an “era of peace.” Summarizing the Church Fathers and vast body of mystical revelations, theologian Rev. Joseph Iannuzzi stated:

From this viewpoint, the appearance of Antichrist before the Era of Peace becomes a matter of Tradition. —Antichrist and the End Times, n. 26

....
He also points out, as have I, that after the Era, there is a last satanic surge as Satan is unchained from the abyss and gathers the pagan nations against the “camp of saints” before the return of Jesus in glory.
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And from Mark's "Coming Resurrection":

A question from a reader:

In Revelation 20, it says the beheaded, etc. will also come back to life and reign with Christ. What do you think that means? Or what might it look like? I believe it could be literal but wondered if you had more insight…



THE purification of the world from evil will also, according to the Early Church Fathers, usher in an Era of Peace when Satan will be chained for a “thousand years.” This will coincide also with a Resurrection of the saints and martyrs, according to the Apostle John:

They came to life and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection. (Rev 20:4-5)


Citing the written and oral tradition of the Church, St. Justin Martyr wrote:

I and every other orthodox Christian feel certain that there will be a resurrection of the flesh followed by a thousand years in a rebuilt, embellished, and enlarged city of Jerusalem, as was announced by the Prophets Ezekiel, Isaias and others… A man among us named John, one of Christ’s Apostles, received and foretold that the followers of Christ would dwell in Jerusalem for a thousand years, and that afterwards the universal and, in short, everlasting resurrection and judgment would take place. —
—St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Ch. 81, The Fathers of the Church, Christian Heritage

.......
THE FIRST RESURRECTION

Those who have died in Christ during this time of tribulation will experience what John calls the “first resurrection.” Those who,

…had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image nor had accepted its mark on their foreheads or hands. They came to life and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection. (Rev 20:4)

This is indeed a tremendous hope (and remarkable that we are suddenly living in a time when Christians are being beheaded again)! Though we cannot know for certain the exact nature of this resurrection, Christ’s own Resurrection may give us some insight:

This authentic, real body [of the risen Jesus] possesses the new properties of a glorious body: not limited by space and time but able to be present how and when he wills; for Christ’s humanity can no longer be confined to earth and belongs henceforth only to the Father’s divine realm. —Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 645

It is possible that the resurrected martyrs will participate in the reigning temporal Kingdom of the surviving remnant Church inasmuch as the risen saints will not be “confined to earth” nor necessarily be ever-present, as Christ only appeared at times during the 40 days before His Ascension.

Christ’s Resurrection was not a return to earthly life, as was the case with the raisings from the dead that he had performed before Easter: Jairus’ daughter, the young man of Naim, Lazarus. These actions were miraculous events, but the persons miraculously raised returned by Jesus’ power to ordinary earthly life. At some particular moment they would die again. —Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 645

Since the risen saints will have experienced the “first” resurrection, they may be in a state such as the Blessed Virgin Mary, who is able to appear on earth, while also enjoying the beatific vision of Heaven. ***The purpose of this grace to be bestowed upon the martyrs would be two-fold: to honor them as “priests of God and of Christ” (Rev 20:6), and to help prepare the remnant Church of the new Era, who are confined still to time and space, for the Final return of Jesus in glory:***
​

For this reason too the risen Jesus enjoys the sovereign freedom of appearing as he wishes: in the guise of a gardener or in other forms familiar to his disciples, precisely to awaken their faith. —CCC, n. 645

The first resurrection will also coincide with a “new Pentecost,” a full outpouring of the Holy Spirit begun earlier in part, through an “illumination of conscience” or “the warning” (see The Coming Pentecost and The Eye of the Storm).

At Jesus’ Resurrection his body is filled with the power of the Holy Spirit: he shares the divine life in his glorious state, so that St. Paul can say that Christ is “the man of heaven.” —CCC, n. 645


Much more of this wonderfully clear explanation of the eschatological outlook for these times upon us by Mark can be found here (a great way of informing oneself from the study of the Early Church Fathers, Popes, saints, scripture, Catechism):
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http://www.markmallett.com/blog/the-coming-resurrection/#more-477
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Since that notification and since the clarifications offered by Vassula to the specific questions given to her by the Congregation the current stance is a cautionary advisement but as far as her holding gatherings wherever in the world is left up to the local Bishop. That is why there is so often seen local Bishops in various countries giving her permission to speak as well as attending such gatherings themselves....with no repercussions. Fr. Laurentin is a long time backer and has attended such gatherings. It may matter to some that Fr. Iannuzzi as well as Fr. Jozo and Fr. Petar (selected by Mirjana to announce the secrets of Medjugorje publicly) as well as other important Marian experts and Bishops have backed Vassula and continue to do so, again, with no repercussions. The Notification is noted as standing by certain prelates but with an additional understanding that continues to unfold, obviously.

 

"No repercussions" is a pretty low bar. If the Notification has not been revoked or formally amended doesn't it still stand? I give the Notification great weight since it was written by Pope Benedict when he was cardinal. (Benedict is a much more formidable theologian than Fr. Iannuzzi.)

 

I presume you are not addressing the character assasination towards me, as I have simply pointed out some facts that need addressing-and as yet nobody has offered any clarifications as to why Fr Iannuzzi was claiming to quote from a 1952 Theological commission that never existed, or adding terms to the diary of St Faustina that are not actually there. I repeat once more, can anyone show me from a single approved private revelation that there will a bodily resurrection of the dead before the end of the world, and that the Antichrist comes prior to that temporal era. This issue highlights why leaning so much on apparitions is very dangerous. I mean we have an official document that states an era of peace (in the form of a millenium -and the document didnt specify one form of it!) is incompatable with Church doctrine and yet so many just refuse to accept it. No so different to the protestants perhaps? Pick and choose Catholicism is rather problematic.

 

It was Benedict who asked that this clarification notification be included in all further books by Vassula. The reason for "no repercussions" is due to the fact that such appearances now are under the permission of the local Bishop. Since others seem to be quite alarmed about that "no repercussions" and believe there should have been such....that is, no calling on the carpet by any "Notification" authorities who could reprimand such Bishops willing to not only grant a venue but to attend. Nor have Catholics been discouraged from attending such gatherings. Thus it's currently an ongoing dialogue...esp. since Vassula is Greek Orthodox she is not under Roman jurisdiction....and she is known personally by Pope Francis, having met with her and also permitted her to have a gathering in his diocese in Argentina. After meeting him and then hearing that he was chosen to become Pope she has hopes that he will be favorable to the main mission she's been given, unifying the East and West, since she understands that it will be the Roman Church that will have to do most of the bending....esp. beginning with the mutual date for celebrating Easter....which is rather a scandal against unity. And the Pope has discussed this beginning gesture with the Russian Orthodox Patriarch.