Creation or Evolution theories

"jose, post: 34451, member: 384"]Hi Jimmyiz,
Yes, that is why I gave a "like" to Sunburst.
I think evolution is a true scientific theory with many facts that support it and that men have a soul. I am convinced by genetic and fossil records that modern humans and apes share the same common ancestor and that God used the laws of evolution as He used the laws of Physics and Chemistry for the unfolding of life on earth

What do you mean now you have to leave? Please tell me you are not being booted?

 

But he refuses to read God's word, saying that there is no "reason" to it, so I am confused on why he is here??

 

He does read God's word, many of our theologians argue over this point Carmel.
At one time everyone believed there was nothing above the sky, one was considered evil if they thought otherwise. We now know different and we have a Vatican astronomer.

We have theologians who have argued this point for years until they arrived at where they have done today. They will tell you that evolution can fit into God's creation without contradicting Catholic teaching..

 

That's why I asked Jose his exact views and if they are in line with Church teachings. From what he answered it appears that his views are in line so I don't know what is the problem. He believes at some point that God put souls into humans despite what evolutionary progression might have happened and the Church also teaches this.

 

Which is a perfectly reasonable position to hold.

 

Maybe you should explain the "theory" of why we have fossils at all, and what assumptions even the existence of fossils is based on....

Because if you believe the Grand Canyon was carved out over millions of years by the Colorado River, then we have an idea of what your assumptions on the "age of rocks" is based on also.

Men think they "know" all of these things as "facts", but the "wisdom of men is folly"....

 

If he has HONESTLY read the Bible, why does he not know anything of giants and other civilizations mentioned? I'm ONLY asking that he read it with an open mind, since he is so willing to read any human theory. Our goal is to get back to God....is probing and questioning every little aspect of creation really going to do that? What has science done so far to bring us all home to God, what has science done to protect the Earth? I am just putting these questions forward on the purpose of scientific debate between disciples of Jesus. Science never finds all the answers, they really just find more questions.....

 

Every time he goes to Mass he listens to God's word and has the priest break open the word which is reading the bible Carmel. He may not have read it cover to cover, but this is not the requirements of The Catholic Church. In fact many would be doing themselves and others a favor if they only listened to the bible in the light of the priest's instructions. I am not saying all, but many people, not as in most people either. We can interpret things so badly. This is not an accusation.. lol.. I am so aware of what I am typing and how it may be coming across, I hope that you can see what I am saying and know that this isn't being personal to anyone here.

 

Wich means one woman.
It is either - or. If we share the same lineage, it is the same woman. There is no other way around.
I know genetics, btw, it is my professional need to some degree.

 

I understand that. But also, having read it several times from front to finish, I can say that when he is at Mass, he is most likely not there to listen to the word and try to find clues of creation. If he would pick up a Bible, use his intellect, and give God a chance to speak on this, then perhaps he might expand his views, not restrict them.

 

Oh Carmel, it may not have been meant that way, but that is a terrible presumption and accusation.

I am stunned..

 

...And it absolutely depends on the long ages of the earth (billions of years) theory. Without it, it crumbles to dust. Yet with the long ages of the earth theory, there are many things expected (based on those billions of years) beyond evolved forms of life, that just aren't consistent with what is found.

Such as, speaking of dust, the amount of dust expected on the lunar surface before we landed there, prompting the lander design to have very long legs (which proved to be completely unnecessary, and the amount was ony a few inches.....totally unexpected). And, although I have not researched this myself, I have heard the Earth's rotation has been slowing down since its creation, and if it has been linear, it would have been spinning so fast in the begining, that it wouldn't have held itself together.

I bet someone on here knows many more of these "anomalies" that just don't add up...

 

One of the reasons that I love the Catholic Church so much is that she is not afraid of science. Quite the contrary, the Church has been one of the leading forces in scientific discovery over the centuries. Heck, it was a Catholic religious (a monk I think) who came up with the Big Bang Theory. There are a number of other examples. The Church embraces science and reason as well as faith. It's so beautiful. Some other religions are afraid of science because they have to fit their beliefs exactly and literally into what the bible says but this is not so and the Catholic Church has the greatest take of all on science, reason, and faith.

 

God is the author of science in the same way that He is the author of scripture. Like in the bible where He reveals His salvation history to us and our true ends He also reveals His creation to us through science.

 

What the heck are you talking about? I am asking him to give the Bible a chance, he says he wont. I care for his soul, and everyone who has lost their faith to this subject. Please stop trying to make a fight where there is none!

 

Concerning cosmological evolution, the Church has infallibly defined that the universe was specially created out of nothing. Vatican I solemnly defined that everyone must "confess the world and all things which are contained in it, both spiritual and material, as regards their whole substance, have been produced by God from nothing" (Canons on God the Creator of All Things, canon 5).

 

One more thing I wanted to add. Actually, science has led tons and tons of people to God. When many people have truly and honestly looked and studied the laws of physics in creation they are persuaded to believe in a higher intellect which almost always leads to a belief in God. Faith alone does not always lead some people to God, where as science and physics brings them home. When they see the amazement in creation which originates from scientific discovery they are left with no other option than to believe in God the creator. It is truly awesome. Watch Fr Spitzer's programs on EWTN about physics and creation. It will blow you away.

 

Genesis 6--There were giants in those days....
It is a known fact that archiologists have found giants. There also is a HUGE cover up about them. Why?? Look at 9:00min.



Magisterial documents do not cover everything. We KNOW we have been lied to repeatedly by govts. that have their own agendas. Columbus did NOT discover America. There were many here, including Europeans long before Columbus. We have to be very careful because the info out there and much has been suppressed. Have you seen the new show 'America Unearthed'? Its wonderful. A forensic geologist bringing out wonderful information that is proving that the media, govt. has banned info on these things. THERE is another perspective and its real and not talked about and if it is, its immediately ridiculed and poo-pooed. That is just not right. Its like saying people can't see angels and demons, watchers and darkmen. Oh really? Just because you don't --doesn't mean it ain't so...

 

Really, MC what is your accusation? When you are at mass, are you trying to find clues about creation or praying at mass? I am saying he is probably there to pray and worship, not study the bible. PLEASE stop trying to start an argument again.