Civil War in the Ukraine?

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by padraig, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. PotatoSack

    PotatoSack Powers

    I don't know if you mean we will knowingly deceive our lord or be totally duped as it will be so confusing? You mention bodily harm, so it implies not going through with physical persecution. I know I haven't been praying as much because of work and I'm just so exhausted. II'm trying to fast from nicotine and have been a miserable failure. Yikes...I better get on the ball. I'm glad our mother showed you this as sshaking at this point in the game is good for all of us. Now I'm late for my hour to pray for the forum but will start right now.
     
  2. Heidi

    Heidi Archangels

    Yes, I agree with this! I know already that my family will be divided, and God has been preparing me for that since childhood.
     
  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    No I don't Heidi. I wouldn't even if I did, I wouldn't want to give folks heart failure. :D

    But the thought occurs to me , Jesus kind of tapped Judas on the shoulder in public as being a traitor. I wonder why He did that? Could it be He was trying to make Judas rethink, to make him convert?

    Anyone any ideas.

    Nothing is inevitable, prayer can change anything even peoples hearts. I have to say anyone after seeing the Warning who turns to the Darkside their heart must be pretty hard, I wouldn't say they have it coming exactly but...

     
  4. miker

    miker Powers

    Padraig- I have often contemplated the exchange between Jesus and Judas on the night of the Last Supper and His Betrayal. I think it was only after "satan" entered into Judas that Jesus calls him out and says do what you must do. I know we all have the chance even at last moments to change and repent but perhaps in this case Jesus knew Judas fully rejected Him and accepted the evil one- maybe to a certain extent he was lost forever at that point? I don't know- it's a mystery. I also always wondered why Jesus allowed Judas to participate in that First Communion of the Last Supper? Contemplation and mystery.
     
  5. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I think ,Mike you have hit it on the head when you write about the, 'Mystery' of evil. I think St Paul mentions this in scripture:

    Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. (2 Thess 2:1-8)

    cf:
    http://blog.adw.org/2014/02/the-mys...tation-on-the-deep-mystery-of-rebelliousness/

    In witchcraft they have a word they use quite a lot, 'Glamour' . I think this is a good word to describe the deceptive draw of pure evil, the love of evil for evils sake. 'Glamour'

    I have read many different exegetes writeon why Judas did what he did, that he did it for the dough, he did it because he was a Jewish Freedom Fighter, he did it to draw Jesus out and so on.

    But I have to say none of these ever satisfied me. I suspect Judas did it for the glamour. Or in other words he did it for pure evils sake. When at first we take to doing bad we become convinced at first we doing bad for a good reason. But if we travel along the road of evil we enter into the region of pure glamour. So that we reach the point that doing evil for evils sake is reason enough in itself. We don't usually reach this point quickly a certain amount of time has to go by.

    Similarly with the saints they don't get to do good out of pure goodness right away. So we have Satanic 'saints', just as we have Godly saints. People who go totally to either the good or to the evil.

    I admit sometimes I myself have felt this draw , this glamour. It doesn't really explain things it simply talks about the process rather than the inner reality, but I think Judas was such a Satanic Saint. He was born to be an apostle and when he didn't take this turn he became a great Satanic Saint. When the good becomes bad it really shoots out into the darkness of Outer Space.

    Just for the hell of it, I dare say.

    I am not too sure if Judas actually took and consumed the host. I think in scripture that is why Jesus dipped the bread in gravy and handed it to the guy. A symbol that whereas the Apostles got the Bread of Heaven Judas got what he wanted a kind of on the hoof McDonnells. :ROFLMAO:

    Just out of pure curiosity but has anyone else experienced the draw, the glamour of pure eviL?

     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  6. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Maria Valtorta's Poem of the Man God spends a lot of time on Judas and Jesus' behaviour to him. It is clear from the writings that Jesus did absolutely everything to convert Judas. Everything except taking away his freedom to choose. At the end of the day, Judas refused to follow and believe in a messiah that, to him, was a loser.

    Miker certainly raises an interesting point regarding Jesus giving Judas Holy Communion and maybe this is a point to be thought about with regard to giving Holy Communion to the divorced.
     
  7. padraig

    padraig New Member

    According to the Ven Mary of Agreda Our Lady did everything she could too and she would have been with him everyday.

    So here we have both Jesus and Mary beside Judas everyday in the first seminary and he still said , 'No'.

    Something to think upon.
     
  8. Charity

    Charity Mercy

    If you go to distribution of the hours of passion by Luisa Piccarreta and read the hour of the Eucharistic Supper- this has some wonderful heart wrenching scenes and thoughts on just this topic
     
  9. Pray for me Padraig; and I for you!
     
  10. miker

    miker Powers

    Wonderful discussion on these mysteries. Last night I was reading from the Book Of Wisdom and I can't help but think here that wisdom is the exact opposite of the glamour of evil that Padraig speaks of. Wisdom is the reflection of the Light of God. In fact, we read it even takes precedent over Light itself. We all too often mistake wisdom for intelligence, but it can't be farther away from it. To have Wisdom is to Have God. Wisdom was ever present from all eternity and will be forever. Perhaps this is what Judas lacked - the grace of wisdom, walking in the light and having the need for light to see the darkness he was entering into. When Solomon was promised anything he wanted, he chose wisdom. Good lesson.

    24] For wisdom is more active than all active things: and reacheth everywhere by reason of her purity. [25] For she is a vapour of the power of God, and a certain pure emanation of the glory of the almighty God: and therefore no defiled thing cometh into her.

    [26] For she is the brightness of eternal light, and the unspotted mirror of God' s majesty, and the image of his goodness. [27] And being but one, she can do all things: and remaining in herself the same, she reneweth all things, and through nations conveyeth herself into holy souls, she maketh the friends of God and prophets. [28] For God loveth none but him that dwelleth with wisdom.[29] For she is more beautiful than the sun, and above all the order of the stars: being compared with the light, she is found before it. [30] For after this cometh night, but no evil can overcome wisdom.
    Wisdom7:24-30
     
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  11. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I will Marti and for your wonderful family. :)

    I am just curious is there still snow out there in Montana?
     
  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I often define true Wisdom as the grace given ability to refer all things to God. So for instance if we are talking about something like say, the Ukraine, we look at it birds eyed way if we do so with Wisdom, that is from up above in heaven.

    I love the title Seat of Wisdom given to Mary. When we meet her in Scripture everything she says, such as the Magnificat is simply a tissue of Scriptural texts as indeed were the Words of her Son Our Lord Jesus Christ.

    St Therese of Liseaux said before here death that she no longer read anything but Scripture. It is easy to see why so young she was made a Doctor of the Church.

    I guess then that the truly Wise person would always have the Word of God burning on their hearts and tongue. :)

    Mary,Seat of Wisdom , sedes sapientae, pray for us.
    [​IMG]

     
  13. concernedforusa

    concernedforusa New Member

    All this talk about Russia, Ukraine and the Crimea is just “much ado about nothing”. People of Russia and Ukraine are the same people: they both are siblings of the same parents. Russia originated in Kiev, which is now the capital of Ukraine. Moreover, both Russian and Ukrainian people are the SINGLE flock of the Russian Orthodox Church. The Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church was from the ancient times and IS now the spiritual leader of BOTH the Russian AND the Ukrainian Christians.


    Crimea was the Russian territory from 1700’s when the Russian soldiers drove the Muslim Tatars out of this peninsula. The Crimea was soaked with Russian blood, not Ukrainian blood. From 1700s and on, Crimea was a part of Russia.

    After the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, and with the creation of the USSR in 1922, Russia and Ukraine were just 2 republics out of 15 republics. The Crimea was a part of the Russian republic all the time, as it was before Bolsheviks came to power.

    Then, in 1960, Nikita Khrushchev, then a leader of the USSR, gave the Crimea to Ukraine, because the Crimea had borders with Ukraine. In Khrushchev’s mind, it did not make any difference because, at that time, the USSR was still one country.

    When, in 1991, Russia and Ukraine became separate countries, it was decided that the Russian and the Ukrainian fleets will share naval bases in Crimea, particularly, in Sevastopol.

    I am a Ukrainian, I was born in Ukraine, and I lived the majority of my life in Ukraine before moving to the USA. And as a Ukrainian, I am telling you that the Crimea belongs to Russia, as it always did. Ukraine should be happy and grateful to just share the Crimean naval bases with Russia. This is not just my opinion, this is the opinion of Ukrainian people who know the historical facts. I know about that because I am in a constant contact with my Ukrainian relatives and acquaintances, who still live in Ukraine.

    If Ukrainian government wants the Crimea only for itself, the result will be a war. Russia will never give up Crimea, and Russians have all rights to do so. Putin is a head of state, and, as every head of state does, he must protect the interests of Russia. And, believe me, Russian cause is a just cause.


    The overwhelming majority of people in the Crimea are Russians. Therefore, it should not surprise anybody that 95% of people of the Crimea voted to re-unite the Crimea with Russia. The cause of Russia is absolutely just. Why do you think that it was no bloodshed when Russian soldiers took over the Ukrainian Naval headquarters in the Crimea? There was no bloodshed because Russians have a just cause and the Ukrainians do not, and Ukrainian military knows that very well.

    The people of Crimea by their votes put all this matter to rest. The case is closed.


    Many people on this forum expect that Putin will go to conquer Ukraine and possibly the West only because they believe that Putin is a “bad guy”. They believe so only because they rely on the prophecies of some Saints, and those prophecies are not in the OT or in the NT. We can rely with 100% of assurance ONLY on the Prophecies in the OT and in the NT and on the Words of Our Lady of Fatima.

    This all summit of European prime ministers is also “much ado about nothing”, and they know this. And, believe me, Obama would never utter a single word against Putin. Why? Because Putin has a proof that Obama is not a natural born citizen, and, therefore, he cannot be the President of the USA. Why do you think Obama, since he became a president, kissed in the past and kisses now Putin’s back? Why did Obama go into hiding since the Crimean crisis started? Just think about this.


    The best thing to do is to let the Russian and the Ukrainian people resolve their differences by themselves. They are one people and they will be able to do it, without “much ado about nothing” from the outsiders. The Crimean conflict is over and the case is closed.


    God Bless!
     
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  14. Andy3

    Andy3 Powers

    Here we go again. Can you please stop disrespecting the Saints of the Church by accusing them of lying with their prophecies. Yes we believe them. I am sorry that you don't. You will never change my love and belief of the church and the saints. I am saying my because I don't want to speak for others. I have to ask you though. If Putin goes further will you change your opinion? What is too far? Crimea? Poland? Belarus? Kazakhstan? Georgia? East Germany? Alaska? You are right, so far he is not the bad guy...but that is so far. I hope to God you are right though for the sake of the world.
     
  15. jerry

    jerry Guest

    Andy3: you are putting words in the mouth of concernedforusa which she did not say.
    She did not accuse the Saints of the Church of lying with their prophecies.
     
  16. Andy3

    Andy3 Powers

    It did not seem that way to me but if I did I apologize. How else should one take then saying that people on this forum rely on prophecies of some saints when the saints the people on this board rely on all speak of Russia and communism in the end times.
     
  17. SteveD

    SteveD Guest

    Concerned, your highly selective history of the Crimea is a joke. Remember the expulsion from the Crimea and murder of the Tatars by Stalin? If Ukrainians and Russians are one then why say that only Russian blood was shed in liberating Crimea from Hitler (nonsense anyway, people who were enforced and non-Russian citizens of the USSR died in their thousands)?. Putin wanted a puppet in Kiev and when the Ukrainians booted him out and wanted closer relations with nations who don't just pretend to hold elections, the Russians decided to get nasty and have thoroughly frightened the free people living in the Baltic Republics and even in Poland and Sweden (among other nations). They are right to be frightened, this monster is another Hitler intent on creating another USSR dominated by a Russia that is dominated by himself and surrounded by 'independent' nations who do as Russia wants 'or else'.
    The West must react strongly in union with its allies among the former prisoner nations of the USSR and with Poland.
    I await your ten page reply of obfuscation and distortion but without much interest.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2014
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  18. concernedforusa

    concernedforusa New Member

    To: Andy3

    You wrote:
    As a Ukrainian Christian belonging to the Russian Orthodox Church, I adore and venerate the Blessed Virgin, and, with all my heart, I love and respect ALL the Saints. In fact, we pray not only for the protection of the Blessed Virgin, but also for the protection of the Saints, although the Blessed Virgin is much, much higher than the Saints.

    My love to the Saints and belief in them is not less than your own love and belief.

    It would never come to my mind to accuse any of the Saints (either the Russian Orthodox Saints or the Roman Catholic Saints) in lying. God forbid! ALL the Saints were honest and holy people, who lived holy lives and deserved the title of the Saints. They ALL deserve our greatest love and respect.

    Just like the Saints of the Roman Catholic Church, many of the Saints of the Russian Orthodox Church prophesied about the End of Times. There is no doubt in my heart that the Saints absolutely believed in what they told in their prophecies. They were holy and honest people, and NOT the liars!

    But, the Saints are not the Prophets of the OT or the NT; their prophecies are not included in the Scripture. We can rely with 100% assurance ONLY on the Prophecies in the OT and in the NT, and on the Words of Our Lady of Fatima. Therefore, the prophecies of the Saints should be taken into account with a certain degree of reservation.


    Besides this Catholic Forum, I am a long-term participant in the Protestant Forum. Couple of years ago, when I was looking for a Christian Forum where people discuss the End of Times Prophecies, I’ve found only one such Forum, and, by chance, it was a Protestant Forum.

    To make a long story short, in this Protestant Forum, I was labeled as a “heretic” and “idolater” for my adoration and devotion to the Blessed Virgin and for my great love and respect to the Christian Saints. Now, in the Catholic Forum, I am accused for “disrespecting” the Saints. Here we go again.



    You wrote:
    You want me to discuss some hypothetical scenarios. I believe that discussion of those hypothetical scenarios is not worth either yours or mine time. It is the same loss of time as the discussion of Putin’s intention to attack Mars.


    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  19. Andy3

    Andy3 Powers

    I hear what you are saying and thank you for clarifying your feelings. You have not mentioned this before but have said in countless posts that we are to only rely on the scriptures and Fatima (which I must admit I don't understand why you only follow this Marian apparition and no others) I assumed you did not trust the saints. Are you saying then that you love the saints but believe what they wrote and said could be in error? If we are to only rely on the scriptures then why would we not follow the prophecies to come after the scriptures as the scriptures tell us to?

    Acts 2:
    [16] But this is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel: [17] And it shall come to pass, in the last days, (saith the Lord,) I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams. [18] And upon my servants indeed, and upon my handmaids will I pour out in those days of my spirit, and they shall prophesy.

    Also, there was no bible put together for more than 300 years after Jesus died so what did the early Christians rely on? They read from what would become the OT put altogether but spread what would become the NT through the apostles and the apostles apostles and letters, etc. the church is not scripture alone it is also sacred Tradition and the church traditions both Roman Catholic and Orthodox.

    This was just blogged about recently in Mark Mallets blog and should make a lot of sense to those in the true churches of Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.

    THE GREAT ANTIDOTE

    After his discourse on the coming apostasy, St. Paul gives the Great Antidote to the deceptions of the lawless one, the Antichrist. It is the antidote to the vast confusion in our times:

    Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. (2 Thess 2:13-15)

    The antidote is to hold fast to the oral and written traditions passed on through Paul and the other Apostles. Where do we find these
    [​IMG]
    traditions? Some Christians saythe bible. But when Paul wrote those words, there was no bible. In fact, there still wasn’t until some 350 years later when the bishops of the Church met in the councils of Hippo and Carthage at the end of the fourth century to decide upon the canon of Scripture. At that time, the early Church had amassed several letters, epistles, and gospels. But which ones were authentic? How could they determine what were the inspired “oral” and “written” traditions? The answer is theApostles, not the bible, were the guardians and source of the authentic tradition that was passed on to them from Christ.

    Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations… teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you… As the Father has sent me, so I send you… and I confer a kingdom on you… (Matt 28:19-20; Jn 20:21; Lk 22:29)

    But wait a minute. By the fourth century, all the Apostles were dead. So did the teachings of the Apostles and the kingdom die out with their passing? No, for we see in Acts Chapter I that the very first act of the budding early Church was to fill the apostolic office left vacant by Judas, the betrayer.

    ‘May another take his office.’ (Acts 1:20)

    The Twelve, then, continued to ordain others to carry on their commission, appointing presbyters in each church3 and town.4 St. Paul warned Timothy, a young bishop, to not lay hands too readily on anyone though,5 and…

    …what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well. (2 Tim 2:2)

    This is all to say that Christ did not leave a hodgepodge of words that everyone could simply take and run with. Rather, He was careful to establish order, authority, and hierarchy so that not only his teachings, but the Sacraments could be safely taught and administered through Apostolic Succession. But knowing that they were mere men, He gave them this promise:

    I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth… I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (John 16:12-13; Matt 16:18)

    That is why St. Paul wrote that the Church, not the bible, is the“pillar and foundation of truth.6 Indeed, the bible came
    [​IMG]
    from the Church, not the other way around. The apostolic tradition was the benchmark and criterion to determine what writings belonged to the Faith and what didn’t, thus forming the canon of Scripture that we have today. Says Church Father, Origen (185-232 A.D.):

     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  20. Andy3

    Andy3 Powers

    Not really. Were you not discussing Russia's right to have Crimea before there was a vote on it? So let me rephrase the question then to not be speculating. If Russia was entitled to the lands of the Ukraine then what other lands are they entitled too or rather what other countries are they entitled to?
     
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  21. SteveD

    SteveD Guest

    Bump
     
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