Charlie Johnston.

Hi Charlie- I have reread you post above a few times and am hoping you could help me better understand this portion:

"There are those who impose mystical significance on everything, constantly gilding the lily of God’s work. They mean well, but they have gilded so much that outsiders see all gilding and no lily – and reasonably conclude this is of man’s making, not God’s. Too much mystical overlays have obscured the lily for those who do not already believe. Trust me, God is not pleased about this."

 

Very powerful words from scripture for our time indeed. Well I have warned many and few have listened. I suspect when the tribulation hits home to those around us a few more many listen. I fear if the Warning did not come nearly all would be lost.

Thus says the LORD:
You, son of man, I have appointed watchman for the house of Israel;
when you hear me say anything, you shall warn them for me.
If I tell the wicked, “O wicked one, you shall surely die, ”
and you do not speak out to dissuade the wicked from his way,
the wicked shall die for his guilt,
but I will hold you responsible for his death.
But if you warn the wicked,
trying to turn him from his way,
and he refuses to turn from his way,
he shall die for his guilt,
but you shall save yourself.

 

I know this link was posted on another thread, but it surely fits the scripture reading for today. This Patriarch said it as clear as possible.

By Gareth Jones
KIEV (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin has fallen under the spell of Satan and faces eternal damnation unless he repents, a top Ukrainian clergyman said on Saturday in an unusually blunt statement that squarely blamed the Russian leader for the war in Ukraine.
Patriarch Filaret heads the Kiev Patriarchate, a branch of the Orthodox Church that broke away from Moscow in 1992 after the fall of the Soviet Union and the declaration of an independent Ukraine.
His church, a rival of the Moscow Patriarchate which is closely linked to Putin, strongly supports Ukrainian nationhood and the Kiev government's struggle to defeat pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine.
"With great regret I must now say publicly that among the rulers of this world ... there has appeared a new Cain, not by his name but by his deeds," Patriarch Filaret said, invoking the Biblical character who killed his brother Abel.
"Like the first fratricide of history Cain, these deeds show that the afore-mentioned ruler has fallen under the action of Satan," he said in the statement, published on the patriarchate's website in Ukrainian, Russian and English. (http://cerkva.info/en/messages/5417-new-kain.html)
The statement, entitled "New Cain", was released on the first full day of a ceasefire between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russian rebels. At least 2,600 people have died in fighting in eastern Ukraine since it erupted in April.
Putin is a baptized Orthodox Christian and has forged close ties with Russia's Orthodox Church, seeing it as a valuable ally in his battle with what he sees as a decadent Western world.
Filaret, who recently took over the Kiev patriarchate, said Putin had deliberately stoked the conflict in Ukraine by sending mercenaries, troops and weapons across the border and had spread lies via Russia's mass media about what was really happening.
Putin denies sending Russian troops into Ukraine or arming the separatists, despite what Kiev and its Western backers say is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
"This ruler is cynically lying, saying his country is not a party to the conflict in Ukraine, though he did everything in order to foment the conflict and maintain it," said Filaret.
"He calls himself a brother to the Ukrainian people, but in fact according to his deeds, he has really become the new Cain, shedding the brotherly blood and entangling the whole world with lies," Filaret said.
Filaret urged the Orthodox faithful to pray that Putin would "come to his senses". Otherwise, the patriarch added, he would face "an ignominious end and eternal damnation in hell".
(Reporting by Gareth Jones; Editing by Andrew Heavens)

 

And to me the second reading for today shows us the way:


Reading 2ROM 13:8-10
Brothers and sisters:
Owe nothing to anyone, except to love one another;
for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery;
you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not covet, ”
and whatever other commandment there may be,
are summed up in this saying, namely,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Love does no evil to the neighbor;
hence, love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

Marvelous analysis, BH. I would consider it perfect if you had said "usually" works through the natural rather than "always." It seems to please God to act in both ways, but usually in subtle ones. The obviously supernatural miracles, it strikes me, are usually both a sign of hope to those who can accept it and a rebuke to those who war against the faith or against God's agents. The BOTH AND miracles are also a sign of hope to those who will accept it but also, I think, a gentle rebuke to those who always demand God's showier obviously supernatural miracles. God gives us always the direction - and the correction - we need to stay steady on the path to Him.

I have sometimes told people close to me who wonder about visits and such not to worry, that if God speaks to them in the thunder, they won't miss it. But that's not where the heart of salvation lies. The reality is that God speaks to us a thousand times a day in little whispers. Salvation does lie there and I worry much more about what I am missing there than in when the thunder will come again.

Also, please do not think I dismiss the BOTH AND type of miracle as "merely" natural. The timing and placement of these things are guideposts, an invitation to look at the deeper spiritual reality behind certain temporal events. I think we ignore that invitation to our peril, whether it is through blatant disbelief or a sullen demand that God give us the satisfaction of a showier miracle.

While I was camped in my mountain for the Novena at the end of my pilgrimage, I was found by two national park rangers at one point - who detained me for a while (wanting to assure themselves I was not a drug dealer hiding a stash deep in the mountain, I suspect). When they found I drank from the streams, they warned me of the prevalence of a deadly bacteria and asked how I purified my drinking water. I said I prayed and trusted God to purify it for me. With a fearful look, one ranger said it could take a week or two for symptoms to show and asked how long I had been doing it that way. When I replied a little over a year, he looked flummoxed and said, "Well, maybe you have developed an immunity." Smiling, I replied, "If I have, isn't that from God, too?" Grudgingly, he agreed it was. I treasure both types of miracle - but it is only the BOTH AND type that I fear my obtuseness could cause me to miss.

 

There are many miracles that defy any natural explanation, Miker. For example, the tilma of St. Juan Diego - a stunning phenomenon that cannot be explained by any natural means. The dance of the sun at Fatima was witnessed by all, believers and disbelievers alike, and could not be denied. But there are many natural miracles that are signs to us. Uncontented with the compelling nature of the sign, some believers insist on imputing mystical qualities to such natural signs that are not there. The believers think this makes it more clearly from God - a sort of "gilding the lily" of what God has done to try to match human expectations. I say that this practice reduces the faith to a type of mere magic. It creates two major problems that drives people away from faith.

First: It leads people to think if it is not obviously supernatural, it is not from God. This insistence leads us to become progressively less sensitive to the presence of God in the ordinary, which He created and in which He usually chooses to work to guide and prompt us. Always searching for the thunder, even when it is not there, it makes us deaf to His little whispers.

Second: Both disbelievers and those on the fence look at our extravagant claims for supernatural qualities to perfectly natural miracles whose miraculous nature is primarily signified by their timing and placement and conclude that we are a superstitious bunch with overheated imaginations. The problem with the tilma of Juan Diego is not that anyone in the world has ever been able to explain or refute its miraculous nature - but that they can safely ignore it entirely because we have made it too easy to discredit us as a superstitious bunch with overheated imaginations.

If we did not constantly "gild the lily" of natural miracles, letting God's work stand as is, devoting ourselves to pointing people to the deeper spiritual reality such events signify, the world could not easily ignore the transcendant power of a phenomenon like the tilma. Thus, I think our efforts to impose a childish supernatural veneer over natural miracles does not lead more people to God, but rather obscures the compelling nature of His presence in such undeniable miracles as the tilma to the world. So I think God, in this Storm, rebukes both those who have spurned Him AND those who have obscured the evidence of His presence by "gilding the lily" of His work. I also think the miraculous nature of His natural miracles would be much more obvious and compelling to those on the fence if we pointed out what they signify rather than imbuing them with qualities they don't have. There is much to be set right in this Storm - and every one of us will live correction from the Almighty.

But above all, I want you to remember: "God calls all men to salvation." He does this not to reject us, but to call us back to Him. There are many who think they are going to stand at God's side watching Him correct the unwashed. I say that every one of us is going to stand on the side of the unwashed to be corrected. Many will be surprised to find themselves standing there. I will not - and will be grateful for the correction I need for my salvation.

 

Charlie, I've told my children that I don't care if a person is converted by seeing Jesus in a tortilla or our Lady's figure on the bathroom wall, if it brings a person to their knees, so be it. Its not our journey to judge. One person's miracle is another's fleeting moment.

 

Please don't get me wrong, Mama! I do not begrudge anyone what they get hope or inspiration from - and I know that I will have much yet to be instructed on, as well. I judge by the fruit that is produced - in hope, faith, charity - and I see many taking a very different course than I do who produce abundant and profound fruit. Thanks be to the good God who provides many different people who can speak to a multitude of different hearts that all might find hope.

What I know is that those of us who make it our business to propound the faith and evangelize, in whatever way, have a duty to seriously consider whether the things we do are more likely to ignite faith or quench it. Far too many of us have reduced our duty to simply getting people to be "like us" - and getting angry and petulant if they are not. God has noticed. He is not pleased about it.

 

Today's readings from the Mass, in particular the First and Gospel, focus on correction- albeit worldly - in the sense that the correction while from God is still being administered through others and the Church. It sounds like the correction you are talking about will be supernatural through the direct intervention of God, and while it might not be pleasant - what correction ever is- it will be done in utter love and mercy and for our eternal salvation. As I think of this and maybe somehow prepare, I reflect on how I've responded to correction in my life and it's not always been so well. It's sort of easy to lash out at the corrector but when I look back, I now see it was for my betterment.

 

The greatest miracles are those that God works in our hearts and souls - the exterior ones are to get our attention.

 

Beautiful, Lynn! I just love it when someone captures the essence of the matter in a very few words.

 

I think sometimes we (well at least I do at times) overlook or maybe take for granted the miracle that takes place right in front of us everyday at the Mass - when through the words of His priests, Jesus comes to us, Body, Soul and Divinity in the form of bread and wine. I think when in the future, we don't have priests as readily available as we do now, we will be so aching for this miracle.

 

Well I for one have not been liked, because I am faithful to all the Churches teachings. I last one year teaching faith formation classes to high school kids, then about every 2-3 years we get a new director (who doesn't know me) and I am in for another year. See, unlike the other teachers who say to their students "whatever is said in this class stays in this class" , I say the opposite. And so they kids go home and tell their parents what I read straight out of the Catholic Catechism, that it is a mortal sin to miss Church on Sunday's and Holy Day's of obligation and lo and behold the 'cafeteria catholic' parent it ticked off. They complain to the director and ofcourse who is sympathetic to them being 'judged' when it was truth that convicted them. Like I said in another post, in 30 years of learning, teaching and defending the faith, I think I have affected only a small handfull of people I have shared faith with. I can find hardly no one who gets excited about anything other then the things of this world. I have a message for God. Start using the smart phone to spread your Word and atleast you will find that they are reading what you are saying. I can't get my own kids out of their phones!!

 

Fatima, I had to "like" your post for the Smart Phone comment alone! If God, did, indeed, send a text bomb to everyone, I reckon that would get their attention - at least among the young. I'm tempted to ask my angel why he didn't think of that!

 

Yes, my kids would definitely pay attention to a text- God may well have to do that for the Warning with our Gen Y kids and young adults as their heads are never turned upward to look at the sky I love what all have said about miracles- in my own life I believe that my family has had healings and also wonderful things happen which are more than coincidence though in the healing of my daughter from a serious complication of her disease process it was both me on my knees in prayer and my husband talking the doctors into trying a new antibiotic which cleared up an infection and prevented need for major bowel surgery. I believe there are no coincidences, God works supernaturally and in the natural. Recently my youngest daughter was in a car accident and she was literally inches according to the policeman of serious loss of life or at least serious injury. She was unharmed and the car only had minor damage despite the other driver passing her on the left while she was making a turn at 50 mph causing that car to hit a tree (and thankfully she was also ok too but her car was totaled). I had been praying for her safety all summer as she was working as camp counselor through the intercession of Venerable Edel Quinn, a Legion of Mary missionary who has a cause for sainthood and was a young and adventurous gal just like my daughter is now. I do believe that the intercessory prayers kept my daughter from harm and I have let the cause know that there has been a favor and received a beautiful letter back from the Legion of Mary. My Methodist daughter has heard all about it too

 

That would be cool...your phone beeps...you look at it: Message from: GOD; text: "Look up."

There's a wry elegance to that. And no one who lived it would ever forget it.

 

I think the warning is going to have to happen through my sons' online video games to get their attention.....maybe all their army guys are going to have to experience the warning online for my sons to see it....

 

I can hear them now, Bonaventure. "Hey, how do you pronounce the name of this new player that just got online - YHWH - and what country is he from?"

 

And fair point from you too Garabandal.
My opening line "In my experience the miraculous always works through the natural" was hyperbolic.
I should have said "usually".

(The line "Why do all God's mighty wonders have to be so "in your face" and completely defiant of human explanation and reason?"
better sums up what I was trying to communicate.)

Having said that, even God's miracles that bypass natural causality are, it seems, always "natural" in a further sense in that they are harmonious with human context and meaning (as opposed to superstition). They are without hint of "power for the sake of power", without fetishism (superstition), they are not disrespectful, unjust or without meaning or disconnected from context.

I see these qualities (or their absence) as helpful in discerning what is of God and what is simply paranormal/preternatural (and hence merely of man or worse) or of legend/imagination/Chinese-whispers.

The power antics of a Simon Magus (levitation before the public and Emporers), the clay pigeons blessed by baby Jesus that flew away (the ancient "Gospel" of Thomas), the legend of the alleged raising of a long dead man by St Stanislaus to bear witness at a trial - these sorts of things do not seem to pass muster at first pass on the above grounds to my mind - which invites us to investigate them more closely.
Which prob explains why Simon Magus was opposed by the Apostles, the gospel of Thomas is not canonical and, if we do scholarly research, we reasonably discover that St Stanislaus's alleged raising of the long dead and buried was a pious oral exaggeration by locals and only put into writing 100s of years after his death.


I find Aquinas's view on miracles and the role of "natural causality" a good starting point:
"These works that are sometimes done by God outside the usual order assigned to things are wont to be called miracles: because we are astonished (admiramur) at a thing when we see an effect without knowing the cause. And since at times one and the same cause is known to some and unknown to others, it happens that of several who see an effect, some are astonished and some not: thus an astronomer is not astonished when he sees an eclipse of the sun, for he knows the cause; whereas one who is ignorant of this science must needs wonder, since he knows not the cause. Wherefore it is wonderful to the latter but not to the former. Accordingly a thing is wonderful simply, when its cause is hidden simply: and this is what we mean by a miracle: something, to wit, that is wonderful in itself and not only in respect of this person or that. Now God is the cause which is hidden to every man simply: for we have proved above that in this state of life no man can comprehend Him by his intellect. Therefore properly speaking miracles are works done by God outside the order usually observed in things.

Of these miracles there are various degrees and orders. The highest degree in miracles comprises those works wherein something is done by God, that nature can never do: for instance, that two bodies occupy the same place, that the sun recede or stand still, that the sea be divided and make way to passers by. Among these there is a certain order: for the greater the work done by God, and the further it is removed from the capability of nature, the greater the miracle: thus it is a greater miracle that the sun recede, than that the waters be divided.

The second degree in miracles belongs to those whereby God does something that nature can do, but not in the same order: thus it is a work of nature that an animal live, see and walk: but that an animal live after being dead, see after being blind, walk after being lame, this nature cannot do, but God does these things sometimes by a miracle. Among these miracles also, there are degrees, according as the thing done is further removed from the faculty of nature.

The third degree of miracles is when God does what is wont to be done by the operation of nature, but without the operation of the natural principles: for instance when by the power of God a man is cured of a fever that nature is able to cure; or when it rains without the operation of the principles of nature."