We are living through a very great and final confrontation - the unleashing of evil -- a great deception a battle between the - Church vs anti-Church Gospel vs anti-gospel Christ vs anti-Christ We see signs of this all around us -- We are being sifted and our faith tested that we may witness to the power of Jesus Christ.
Powerful deceptions in our midst: 1. Presumed universal salvation without having to repent, believe or be baptised (there has to be repentance and faith) 2. In the area of sexual morality -- Do you not realise that people who do evil will never inherit the kingdom of God? Make no mistake -- the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, the self-indulgent, sodomites (1 Corinthians 6v9) --- will inherit the Kingdom of God. 3. Sin is not serious -- yes it is - the 'wages of sin is death' and unrepented mortal sin leads to eternal separation from God. 4. 'Lifestyle choice' - vice is not virtue - No! we cannot approve of lifestyle choices that endanger souls. 5. Hell is empty or very few people go there - St Faustina's vision below: St Faustina's Vision of Hell "I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence...the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell." (Diary 741) The Apostle of Divine MercySt. Maria Faustina Kowalska of the Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy "Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw: The First Torture that constitutes hell is: The loss of God. The Second is: Perpetual remorse of conscience. The Third is That one's condition will never change. The Fourth is: The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's anger. The Fifth Torture is: Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own. The Sixth Torture is: The constant company of Satan. The Seventh Torture is: Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies. These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings. Indescribable Sufferings There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned. I would have died. There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me. No One Can Say There is No Hell. Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like...how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God's mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary 741)
I promised Padraig in one of my posts I would pray and ask the Lord for His advice, and was surprised at the outcome. A strong inspiration came to me and I will share it. I do not see this as a solution to this discussion; but it certainly has reminded me that only the Lord Himself has the right to judge; me, Sparrow or anyone else. "If your right eye causes you to sin, tare it out, it is better to enter Heaven with one eye than to end up in hell with both eyes." "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off, it is better to enter Heaven with one hand than end up in hell with both hands." Holy Father Francis says get out of your comfort zone, shake things up. This is Julia's contribution. Hoping I won't be ordered to go back and pray some more until I get the right answer.
I know people who consider themselves devout Catholics but don't go to Confession because they believe it is enough to confess their sins to God and they will be forgiven. Should I tell them that there's no guarantee that God will forgive them without receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation, or should I mind my own business for fear of being accused of judging them? Which is more likely to land me in hell: telling them what the Church teaches or encouraging them to keep on receiving the Eucharist because they are good, kind people who are only following their conscience? My comfort zone tells me to mind my own business rather than "judging" them by telling them the truth and hurting their feelings. Should I tear out my ears rather than hear them and say nothing, or tear out my tongue rather than tell them they ought to go to confession?
There's a better way - ask Jesus to guide you in His Will. He will give you the patience to be silent or the words to speak in any situation. Then your response belongs to Him, if you give him your own willfulness.
This part of your post: "...rather than "judging" them by telling them the truth and hurting their feelings." I find this concept puzzling. Could you expound on how telling someone the truth is judging them?
It is a perennial question, how best to approach the non-believer. Pope Francis would simply say, with love and mercy. I was reading this morning an article in the Catholic Herald about a lady from the 'Wild West' in the 19th century on the way to sainthood. I copy a quote here: "Sister Blandina (Segale) caught my attention because she encountered lynch mobs and was unmoved by their ferocity. She faced Billy the Kid and dissuaded him from causing more bloodshed. Instead of distancing herself from the violence, Sister Blandina worked to instill a sense of mercy in both the sinners and their victims." I think we can learn a lot of how to approach the non-believer, whether in our own family or outside it, by reading Our Lady's monthly messages in Medjugorje. Our Lady's gentle loving approach (but so strong and firm!) has converted and continues to convert countless souls.
Yes, I'm sure we all struggle with this. And I like what Pope Francis says . Since discovering many beautiful mystical texts and Our Lady's messages, I have learned that my response matters much, much less to Our Lord than what motivates my response. So I've learned to guard my tongue when my responses are not motivated by love, because lack of love can make any action virtually worthless to God. (If it's not for love of God, then it's about me and that can turn what looks like a good act into a sin...). Kathy's suggestion sums it up nicely too.
We approach folks 'where they are at' just like Jesus and love them just like Jesus loves them. But we must always be true to the truth.
Removing limbs or organs is not about other peoples sins. It is about our own sins. In the way that "taking the plank out of our own eye before taking the splinter out of our neighbours eye" works. If we make a bold statement on how we are going to tell sinners to go to confession or they will be damned. And then go out and do just that in our parish. I think we would be in serious trouble with our parish Priest. And I don't know if you realise it; but publicly making that statement above, you could be inviting Our Lord to call you out on that and judge you by your own statement. Sorry if this sounds harsh. I may have misread your post. Are you asking a question or making a statement. Of course if a catholic tells you they are in mortal sin and tells you they don't go to confession; you would be obliged to say to them, in charity they need to consult a Priest. Unless you are facing a blatant in your face Catholic who brags about their sinful behaviour, then I think we could go for the gun or the tank and let them have it. I use the ammunition in a symbolic way.
Our Lord will judge us all whether or not we invite him to do so. I'm asking this question: at what stage is it making a judgement call to state clearly Church teaching to folk who pick and choose which teachings suit them? According to Church teaching, anyone who chooses not to go to Confession for years yet continues to receive the Eucharist is committing mortal sin, irrespective of any unconfessed sins they may have committed. I don't ask anyone whether they have been to Confession or what sins they are committing because I'm too busy coping with my own sinfulness. These people have told me that they don't go to Confession and haven't for years. Is it more merciful for me to keep my mouth shut or to tell them that the only way they can be sure their sins are forgiven is by making a good confession? Does saying nothing make me complicit in their sin, causing me to commit the sin of omission? Am I being judgemental and merciless if I say "You shouldn't receive Communion unless you receive the Sacrament of Penance at least once a year. By doing so, you are guilty of the Body and Blood of Our Lord and bringing damnation upon yourself". That's the unadulterated statement of Church teaching as I learned it, and Jesus gave us a Church to teach us how He wants us to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. At what stage does shying away from stating the unvarnished truth for fear of hurting feelings and making ourselves appear judgemental cause us to commit the sin of omission? This example of Confession could apply to any Church teaching.
Dolours, Now things have changed...if someone asks you about the faith or brings up spiritual topics... then it is easier to evangelize. Or, if you would like to start the conversation, you could start with...you know, we have been friends a long time, maybe we can get together soon for coffee, I would like some help in my spiritual life. That switches the conversation away from the person. Once you have the fish hooked... then you can start a slow and gentle approach to conversion. I understand the Brians and Malachis of the world would state.... just tell them they are sinning and going to hell. But again, Jesus never condemned a soul to hell on earth. He preached on sin and hell to the masses...but never did he condemn a soul to hell on earth. So, now that you have peaked interest... you should get a coffee date. At the meeting, be all ears, let the individual person talk...be Gods ears. Once the pleasantries of family/single life has passed... then you bring up your topic. In this case...you mention to the person how you really enjoy your spirituality and you bring up confession. The other person might not understand confession, so it is a way to start the conversation. Here would be my starting point. You know what, every-time I go to confession I feel pretty embarrassed but once I come out... I feel like a burden has been taken away. What do you think about confession? Are you embarrassed? Once the other person is engaged then you start with all the positives of confession. There is so many positive things about confession that it seems like a no-brainer. Even doctors have had studies that telling other people your problems is positive for your mental health. Confession is like seeing your health doctor but for the healing of your soul. And at the end maybe you mention...and by the way going to confession gets us one step closer to heaven. If the conversation goes right you might find a new spiritual friend, But don't try to over do it. We are all in a gradual conversion process. To much information and the other person starts shutting down. Just a few suggestions from a old church mouse. May God Bless Your Every Actions...to bring Souls to heaven. Brother al
It is a shame you feel this way about myself and others. Lobbying to have people booted off the forum is not something that has happened in the past. Also your follow-on posts comparing forum members to cats and mice is not appreciated either and I don't think very Christ-like. You say you intend no malice in yoru posts...but your posts say something else. Not all of them, but enough of them.
To be fair I never said you were included. Also I am not lobbying for evictions but do find it absurd that those who have defended basic teaching charitably have been attacked and ridiculed as pharisees. This is the source of my frustration which has obviously come through in some of my posts.
You definately implied it, and for fallen saint too. So, the pharisee stuff happened some time ago on a different thread, right? I don't think it has happened on this thread to my recollection. Whether the pharisee stuff is justified or not, it seems you are holding onto it and it is bleeding into other threads and topics. It makes you come down like a ton of bricks on people who may be genuinely ill-informed and trying to learn. Hopefully you can let the frustration you are feeling over the pharisee stuff go as it is impacting many of your other posts.
There is not a single, absolute way to do this. Depending on your own judgment, even when it sits on a well-formed conscience, is not a fail-safe option. When we look closely at our interior motives, we can still be deceived. That's why it's especially important to call on the Holy Spirit to guide you and take over in these situations. From my work with the dying, I can attest that it takes great patience to be used by God in the conversion of a soul. It's as important to be obedient to the call to silence as it is to speaking. We put so much weight on our own words, and it is our own words that often send a soul to flight. Soaker prayers, like a soaker hose in a garden, do more to soften up the ground of a soul to receive what God is offering them than our words. Then, when the soul is prepared, the words can come, inspired by the Holy Spirit. It's also important to remember that one person can prepare the ground, another can sow the seed, and another can reap the harvest. We often never see the harvest, but our efforts are necessary for the result the Lord desires. This quote often comes to me when thinking of these things: "Never crush a suffering person with the full weight of the truth." Those living in grave sin are always suffering. Using truth as a hammer does not build up the kingdom of God. Better to offer it gently, in sips. The sick can't tolerate meat; only sips of warm soup and cool water. I liked Julia's suggestion to gently recommend seeing a priest. You can even take it further - offer to make an appointment, even go with the person to provide moral support. Jesus showed us how he wants us to approach sinners in the Gospels. He didn't tell Zachhaeus, "Come out of that tree, you miserable little sinner, so I can hammer you with the truth." He said, “Zacchaeus, come down quickly, for today I must stay at your house.” And Zachhaeus came down and received him with joy. The Truth is a person, Jesus Christ. Become a living tabernacle and you can bring the Truth to everyone you meet.
