I'm new here, obviously, so I don't know anyone posting here much beyond this thread, just as you all don't know me beyond what I've posted. When I shared my particular NFP experience, I did so with the motivation to show some 'sisterhood' and encouragement to the poster. My message was intended as "Yeah, it's a difficult decision but the behavior itself (NFP) can be done and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to do it correctly". The poster had listed all the other changes she'd instituted in her life since converting to the Church, and described how it had given her great joy, and it was just this one issue that was causing her grief. That IS heart-breaking. But I suspect the real pain, the real underlying source of her misery is not the Church's teaching on contraception in marriage. She sought out priests and from what I understand they signed off on the coitus interruptus, or rather counseled mainly to be sure to confess it prior to receiving Communion. So she was getting no push-back there. She described still struggling with her conscience, but decides that according to her conscience and heart, it was not the grave sin that the Church teaches it is. So at that time, no push-back there. And yet, she still feels hardship over the issue. She then finds a 'gifted' priest who tells her that HER CHURCH demands that she must follow HER conscience. So then she gave herself in complete trust of Jesus, and that Jesus knows her intentions are noble. There! So you would think at this point the decks are clear to continue in this behavior. But no, she lays it all out in this forum, and I could be quite wrong, but to me that indicates that it is still unresolved for her and she is still looking for a way to live this decision without pangs of guilt. And here she finds at least one person who tells her: you're fine! In fact, you really should just get sterilized and cut to the chase. But clearly from her final post she is still drowning in sadness, misery, anger and guilt. Her refusal to give up is admirable and I do ache for the struggle she is in. To my understanding, the real source of her current discontent resides in the fact that her remedy to reconcile what her Church teaches and what her spouse wants, by it's very nature, results in that discontent, and for very logical reasons. "It is not the pleasure but something else that gives significance to the conjugal act. The conjugal act may or may not be accompanied by pleasure, pleasure that is always transient. But the significance of the act is not transient; it lasts. And it is shown by what happens in that marital encounter, which is not just a touch, not a mere sensation, however intense, but a communication, an offer and acceptance, an exchange of something that uniquely represents the gift of oneself and the union of two selves." (http://www.cormacburke.or.ke/node/984) "In this consists the singular quality of intercourse. Other physical expressions of affection do not go beyond the level of a mere gesture; they remain a symbol of the union desired. But the conjugal act is not a mere symbol. In true marital intercourse, something real has been exchanged, with a full gift and acceptance of conjugal masculinity and femininity. And there remains, as witness to their conjugal relationship and the intimacy of their conjugal union, the husband's seed in the wife's body." (ibid) " In contraceptive sex, the spouses do not "reveal themselves to each other" (and this should be especially evident in the case of the use of condoms). They do not "know" each other or possess each other [3]. For they have not actually given that which physically encapsulates the gift of themselves. By excluding the mutual gift of their procreative potential they cannot become the one unified subject of the act. They are not thereby united; rather they are "using" each other. Their sexual act will hinder, not foster respect for one another and actually becomes a force for division rather than union. Neither the sense of possessing the other, nor that of surrendering oneself to the other, can be present; only the experience of an appetite satisfied - but in a way that effects no union, that is empty and non-communicative, marked by one-sided appropriation rather than conjugal sharing." (ibid) And finally, "By their use of contraceptives the spouses' physical act - of apparent self-donation - is turned into a lie [6]. Contraceptive intercourse is not true sexual intercourse at all, and neither expresses nor effects any conjugal union. It is not an act of mutual love; it has been dehumanised [7]." (ibid) But no spouse can fully recognize this reality of conjugal sexuality unilaterally. Life is full of twists and turns, and I'd like to think no one enters into an unequally yoked marriage unconvinced that any and all religious differences will be reconciled, over time, through love, understanding and mutual respect. Good, thorough pre-marital counseling can prevent disasters if both parties are unflinchingly honest during the process, but peoples' beliefs and understanding do change as they move through life and all possibilities cannot ever be fully examined before the nuptials. Sparrows obviously desires to be a good, obedient Catholic AND a good, obedient wife as she sees it, and she shouldn't risk her life to do so, if she does not have to. But I don't believe the Church's teaching on contraception is the real thorn in her side. I will continue to pray for her and for her husband.
Very well said Homeschoolmom!! Spot on. We will pray for her. Right now however Julia has thrown herself on her sword and she has decided this is the hill she wants to die on...lol
I feel opinions and facts should be given by the experts of the ship, not by the sailors. St.Teresa of Avila said we need to pray for the Captains to guide the people and not offer our own opinions . . . It would have been better to sympathize with Sparrows predicament, and then point her to a professional resource in her community. I wish there could have been an internet back in the 60's and 70's in my formative years, these matters were never discussed. And I thank God that He has permitted me to live this long so I could learn the truth . . ." Seek and ye shall find". What a friend I have in Jesus and his Divine Mercy.
Our God is orderly. He gives authority, and those in authority have grave responsibilities. Using St. Peter, Moses and St. Padre Pio, and Brian using St. John and various Doctors of the Church, as models for dealings with our peers just doesn't apply. Yes, the humblest lay person must know the faith and defend it. We will all have to answer for doing that, as well as HOW we do that.
I missed it. Since you have it bookmarked, would you mind very much posting the link to save me reading pages of posts to find it.
The saints are perfect role models for everyone. The holiness of the saints is attractive because they are illuminated by the beauty of Christ. The saints are proof that the Church is the one holy, Catholic and apostolic Church established by Christ. I can think of no better way to evangelise than by introducing unbelievers, pagans and the lukewarm to the saints. Through reading about the lives of the saints our hearts are set on fire for love of God. We are all called to sainthood. Every single person who was born. There is no opt out clause. This is God's calling & plan for everyone. Fortified by so many and such powerful means of salvation, all the faithful, whatever their condition or state, are called by the Lord, each in his own way, to that perfect holiness whereby the Father Himself is perfect. The Lord Jesus, the divine Teacher and Model of all perfection, preached holiness of life to each and everyone of His disciples of every condition. He Himself stands as the author and consumator of this holiness of life: "Be you therefore perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect. Therefore, all the faithful of Christ are invited to strive for the holiness and perfection of their own proper state. Indeed they have an obligation to so strive. Let all then have care that they guide aright their own deepest sentiments of soul. Let neither the use of the things of this world nor attachment to riches, which is against the spirit of evangelical poverty, hinder them in their quest for perfect love. Let them heed the admonition of the Apostle to those who use this world; let them not come to terms with this world; for this world, as we see it, is passing away (Lumen Gentium)
All forms of contraception including sterilization and coitus interruptus are evil. However, I think Julia believes Sparrows may have an overriding medical problem that should be looked into. And I believe Julia's heart is in the right place even though she said what she said to sparrows rather crudely, which has not helped Julia's cause. I believe Sparrows needs to become more courageous in her faith and also become more acquainted with catholic doctrine. This could have happened on the forum and may still happen for her here on the forum, but if she is gone from the forum the Lord can reveal His truths through other avenues. In either case I pray and trust the Lord will lead Sparrows to the truth.
When Father gave me that advice in was in reply to a personal situation where I had said something to a family member that was not living a good Catholic life, in my eyes. I believe I had admonished this person unwisely which sadly caused them to become even more resolute in their sin. So I have tried to apply Fathers wise counsel to my life in general. The exception of course is when the Holy Spirit sets a fire in me, to admonish another , however at these times I know it is not me who is talking, as I feel an overwhelming zeal and I hand over my very limited understanding, love and means and let the Holy Spirit take control; I love it when this happens. The way God leads me is not the way He leads everyone! We are all on different walks but all serve the one God. St Padre Pio had a different mission to St Therese the little flower but both served the one God. Just as the Lord lead them. Some are called to great austerity and others go on 'the little way' with many ways between the two.
