CDF reaches negative judgment on Medjugorje, Italian journalists report

But we like arguing because we all like to be right! and defensive just like Adam and Eve!

 

We do not know for sure how the things are and who is reliable and who is not. The 'leak' could be intentional.
Even if the meeting of CDF didn't happen this month, the 'leak' can be trustworthy. That's how I see it.
Here is one article: http://te-deum.blogspot.fi/2015/06/full-translation-of-gianluca-bariles.html

 

True Padraig. While it does appear in many words from Pope Francis that he has an issue with Medjugorje , we will have to wait .
Pope Francis will do what Pope Francis wants to do.He doesn't care what people think of him.


Watch the video and listen to the excuse. The excuse is twaddle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=133&v=EDmW2mDfrI0

 

Of course he cares what people think, Mac. Without referring directly back to those who falsely accuse him and put words in his mouth he puts the record straight in his homilies and addresses so that his flock is not misled. He cares for those in his charge. He cares when his enemies endanger his sheep by lying about the shepherd and keeping him from his work as they tried in the last Synod.

 

While we wait for the English translation, here is a summary of it from a Medjugorje site. Vatican Insider is probably the most reliable source of Vatican news there is (maybe after the Vatican site itself!).

FRIDAY, JUNE 26, 2015
Vatican Insider rebuts claims of journalist

Italian journalist Andrea Tornielli, writing forVatican Insider, has rebutted the report published yesterday by Gianluca Barile in which he claimed that the CDF had held its Plenary meeting (fourth feria) on Wednesday and had found against Medjugorje.

Tornielli states that the Cardinals and bishops have not yet examined the dossier and that everything is postponed until after the summer. He suggests that it is possible that the CDF could meet again after the conclusion of the Synod on the Family and if so, a ruling would not be made before autumn 2015.

Vatican Insider reports that when the ‘fourth fiera’ does take place it will be attended by 25 cardinals and bishops, among them Secretary of State Pietro Parolin, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelisation of Peoples Fernando Filoni, the President of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts Francesco Coccopalmeiro, the archbishop of Naples Crescenzio Sepe, the archbishop of Vienna Christoph Schönborn and archbishop Jean-Pierre-Ricard of Bordeaux.

Tornielli also asserts that members of the “fourth fiera” have not yet received copies of the dossier and are not aware of the text prepared by the Commission headed by Cardinal Ruini.

Vatican Insider’s rebuttal follows on from the announcement yesterday by Radio Maria that the CDF meeting had not taken place.

http://www.crownofstars.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/vatican-insider-rebuts-claims-of.html

 

We were also told the leaked Encyclical was not finished and their would be changes . There were no changes.

 

Another rebuttal:

Vatican Insider rebuts claims of journalist

Italian journalist Andrea Tornielli, writing for Vatican Insider, has rebutted the report published yesterday by Gianluca Barile in which he claimed that the CDF had held its Plenary meeting (fourth feria) on Wednesday and had found against Medjugorje.

Tornielli states that the Cardinals and bishops have not yet examined the dossier and that everything is postponed until after the summer. He suggests that it is possible that the CDF could meet again after the conclusion of the Synod on the Family and if so, a ruling would not be made before autumn 2015.

more..... http://crownofstars.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/vatican-insider-rebuts-claims-of.html

More purposeful delays.....more "leaks" of what never happened! And more time during the delay for more gossip and presuppositions by the anti-Medj usual suspects! This is a battle between what the Pope has asked of the CDF and what they (he) is doing in reproach to that request. They haven't even "examined" the "dossier" after all of these months with a deadline given to them? What else is one then to believe?! "After the conclusion of the Synod on the Family"? The making of a schism which will give more ammo to those who are on the side of their personal "new" church. Church following the passion and now at the crowning of thorns which is the attack on papal authority/head.

 

I have been called by Our Lord, to be little.

Sometimes I find this hard, as I like to think that I have much to offer.

But the truth is I am little. (Really that is a grandiose statement, I am but less than dust.)

To be little means that I should not comment on great questions or dilemmas in the church.

Therefore, Praise God in All His Angels and Saints.

And Bless us Lord,

The small and the great,

The woman and the man,

The Master and the slave,

The authority and the peasant,

The child and the parent,

The little and the big.

I praise you Lord for the equality and the inequality that befronts us here on this earth.

Please give to us, your children, the eyes to see past our prejudices, and embrace in love, those with different points of views/culture/understandings. Amen

 

“I LOOK WITH SERENITY AND TRANQUILLITY TO WHAT WILL BE THE POSITION OF THE POPE”-

http://www.nationalmedjugorjemovement.com/news/vicka-our-lady-told-me-not-to-worry-about-commission/

25.06.2015.
VISIONARY VICKA IVANKOVIC HAS ALLEGEDLY EXPRESSED HER CALM despite a sudden media storm that Italian Blogger Gianluca Barile caused claiming that the commission have ruled negatively against the visionaries whilst adopting and maintaining the Shrine.

“I look with serenity and tranquillity to what will be the position of the Pope”- Visionary Vicka Ivankovic tells Father Michael Barone one of the priests more present in Medjugorje and very close to the visionary – ‘I am in full obedience to the Church and the Madonna told me not to worry.” Vicka confidently assured.

This comes after visionary Ivan Dragicevic claims he is sure the Pope will say something positive about Medjugorje.

Just recently Padre Livio has dismissed the rumours that the Vatican held a feria quarter yesterday with a negative conclusion, tweeting:

“The Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith held no Plenary on #Medjugorje. Sleep peacefully. Our Lady watches. P.Livio”

Visionary, Mirjana Soldo, has before said that Our lady told her regarding Cardinals and Bishops dealing with Medjugorje ‘you pray – and leave them to Me’

Today marks the 34th Anniversary of the alledged apparitions that took place in Medjugorje, 1981.

 

I've changed my mind Padraig. I backed down too easily as I often do. My only mistake was in thinking the CDF was the teaching authority of the church. I see its role is to spread sound doctrine and defend tradition. Do you know what role, if any, the CDF had in the investigation of Medjugorje? Were they given the findings of the Commission? Are their conclusions binding? Are you saying that if Pope Francis pronounces a decision on Medjugorje that it can be ignored because the Magisterium was not involved? I may have missed the letter of the law but I am sure I have the spirit. I reiterate, if something does not belong to God, it belongs to Satan. St Theresa said its better to have a learned man than a wise man in charge because the learned man will get it right. I understand and accept that protocol and process have to be observed for valid conclusions to be reached. I was ignorant of these. Take away my ignorance and my logic still stands. Make my case without my mistake the and it prevails. You cannot serve both God and Mamon. Mamon in this case is falsity. Either Medjugorje is false or it is true. Either it is worthy of belief or it is not. The Spirit of God does not deal in half measures.

 

'Are you saying that if Pope Francis pronounces a decision on Medjugorje that it can be ignored because the Magisterium was not involved?'

Am I ?

Was I?

 

OK|. I'll leave it at that. We are starting going round in circles again and over a report that was false in the first place.

An exercise in futility.

 

Here is the full Vatican Insider article:

06/26/2015
Medjugorje: No decision yet


THE HILLS OF APPARITIONS IN MEDJUGORJE

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has not held any “plenary” sessions or a “feria quarta” on the Herzegovina apparitions. Cardinals and bishops have not yet examined the case, with everything postponed until after the summer. The outcome of the discussions will be presented to the Pope who will ultimately decide. Francis has shown his appreciation for the work carried out by Ruini’s commission

ANDREA TORNIELLI VATICAN CITY

No decision has been taken regarding the Medjugorje apparitions, which began in 1981 and have not yet come to an end. The institutional bodies of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith have not yet met to examine the case along with the conclusions of the lengthy and important study carried out by the commission headed by Cardinal Camillo Ruini, which concluded its work last year.

The former Holy Office has not held any “plenary” sessions (the next one is due to take place next January). Even the“feria quarta” (a once-a-month meeting – held on a Wednesday – held by cardinals and bishops of the Congregation to examine current cases) did not deal with Medjugorje. The last “feria quarta” took place on 17 June, authoritative Congregation sources tell Vatican Insider. The next meeting will be held after the summer, possibly after the Synod has ended. This means no announcement is to be expected before autumn 2015.

On the occasion of the 34th anniversary of the first apparition there was a great deal of expectation regarding an announcement, which was considered imminent. Answering a journalist’s question on the return flight from Sarajevo, Pope Francis had said: “In regard to the issue of Medjugorje, Pope Benedict XVI at the time convened a committee presided over by Cardinal Camillo Ruini; there were other Cardinals, theologians and specialists on the committee as well. They did an investigation and Cardinal Ruini came to me and gave me the study they did, after many years of labour, I don’t know, maybe three of four years, more or less. They did a fine job, a fine job indeed.”

“Cardinal Müller (Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) told me that he would be having a feria quarta (a meeting dedicated to this specific question) at the right time; I think it was done on the last Wednesday of the month. But I am not sure… We are close to coming to a decision. And then the results will be communicated. For the moment, all that is being done is to give guidelines to the bishops, but along the lines that will be taken.”

Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi later stated that the “feria quarta” on Medjugorje had not been held yet. Vatican insider has learnt that it will not take place until after the summer. The “feria quarta” is attended by 25 cardinals and bishops, including: the Secretary of State, Pietro Parolin; the Prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, Fernando Filoni; the President of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts, Francesco Coccopalmerio; the Archbishop of Naples, Crescenzio Sepe; the Archbishop of Vienna, Christoph Schönborn (who has a notoriously positive attitude to the Medjugorje phenomenon) and the Archbishop of Bordeaux, Jean-Pierre Ricard.

This is the assigned place for the examination of the case. “Feria quarta” participants have not yet received the material and are not therefore familiar with the contents of the text prepared by Ruini’s commission. Other material from the archive of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith could be added to the conclusions reached by the working group headed by the former president of the Italian Bishops’ Conference. The outcome of the discussions held by the “feria quarta” will be an authoritative viewpoint but it only serves as advice, which will eventually be presented to the Pope who will make the final decision.

Recent speculations in the media about a highly negative decision on Medjugorje are completely unfounded as no decision has been taken. Pope Francis highlighted his appreciation for the work carried out by Cardinal Ruini and the revelations made in recent months make it clear that the conclusions reached by the commission were not that negative: they gave credit to the first apparitions (the ones witnessed in June and July 1981), separating them from the ones which followed; they criticised some abuses but recognised the spiritual fruits and underlined the need for improved pastoral and spiritual care for seers and pilgrims and the suggestion was put forward to transform Medjugorje into a shrine unto itself or to include it within a new diocese.

Of course, there is nothing to say that the final decision will definitely be as suggested by the commission of cardinals, theologians and experts led by Ruini. The commission’s work spanned four years and involved interviewing seers and witnesses and gathering ample documentation. It is possible that, given that the apparitions are ongoing, the opinion regarding the potential supernatural nature of a phenomenon that has not yet come to an end, may be separated from the opinion about the spiritual fruits witnessed among the pilgrims of Medjugorje. It is also possible that a decision may be taken not to turn the parish church into a shrine. The “feria quarta” will examine and evaluate the case and will then present its appraisal to Pope Francis who is already familiar with the documentation. But all pre-emptive speculations about a negative decision by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on the Medjugorje apparitions are completely premature and ignore the fact that Francis’ “consultants” – the 25 cardinals and bishops of the “feria quarta” – have not yet examined the case.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/medjugorje-41993/

 

Unfortunately the way things are set up these days with the philosophy of "collegiality" that has contributed to competing with papal authority or at least stalling final pronouncements by the Pope, as in this case, such commission reports MUST first pass through the CDF as protocol demands. If it is in the wind that the Pope is rather favorable then the best tactic to use, esp. with all of the division of forces within, is to stall while doing what one can to formulate a public opinion that will believe that there is a negativity towards this question of Medj., creating a bit of chaos as so recently seen with this false report and then somehow tying that chaos to the question of Medj. itself. I think it is a "grievous offense" against the faithful when this supposedly responsible congregation of the hierarchy is seen as so very derelict in their duty to even begin to review the commission's report, in the works for years, and which the CDF has had in its hands now for months. As reported, the Pope himself has already reviewed the "dossier" and complimented the commission on a job well done. They're probably hoping for more chaos generated by the divisions within the coming Synod to give another excuse for stalling longer.....to their delight and goals.

 

Medjugorje has created divisions and took peace of mind of the people of God as we can see also in this forum. And still it is claimed with many that the Queen of Peace is appearing there? And this has been so for 34 years now. No peace! No obedience!

 

L

Yes, I have already said it was a mute point. No we are not going round in circles. I have already said the thread began with a lie and so dismissed it. At this stage I am not discussing the content of the thread. I was adressing the principles by which that content could have reached its conclusions and how they should be regarded. I am asking that if process and protocol are observed, should the resulting directives by the Pope be obeyed wholeheartedly. I was bringing up the point that even if a teaching is not made officially ex cathedra it is still to be obeyed. Of course the old chestnut of conscience may be brought into play but that is a dangerous game whose rules are even more commonly misconstrued. I agree this is probably a new thread, one on conscience and the rules thereof. So my point was that if no valid reason exists, as opposed to simple opinion or feeing, to disobey the Pope's decision on Medjugorje then it should be not only respected and obeyed to the letter but embraced by the hearts of the faithful. If conscience still dictates otherwise then it should be re-examined and a path to reconciliation re-explored by the individual. Prayer and fasting come to mind, things that supporters of Medjugorje already practice, probably more than the majority of Catholics. Once again I may be wrong but I do not think humanae vitae was ex cathedra. Look at the damage and destruction disobedience has caused here, almost a kind of schism in itself among the laity. The majority of Catholics have already, so to speak, left the church by ignoring and rejecting this teaching. Will the same thing happen with the supporters of Medjugorje? While I have seen statements here that the letter of the law will be obeyed I have also seen admissions that the heart will not, that half measures are already at play, claims that the heart cannot submit to the mind. The Fathers of the church referred to the heart as the great traitor. For the last 50 years, since the 60s do your own thing mentality emmerged, the heart has ruled supreme. Abortion, euthanasia, divorce, anarchy etc have all resulted. Obedience has become a dirty word. Reservations are for trouble not tradition. I hope that whatever the Pope has decided about Medjugorje his decision will be respected and obeyed without reservation and that any movements of the heart against his ruling will be stilled for the sake of unity and for the sake of love. In the end we will be judged on love. "If you love me, keep my word." The care of this word has been given to our Holy Father and the authority of the Son conferred on him. I hate speaking from this type of spiritual hill top, primarily cause it means I am in danger of a great fall and there is no one to put humpty together again. Please forgive any offense and thank you for this chance to speak my mind. I love Garabandal but for what it is worth, if this Pope condemns Garabandal I will drop it like a hot potato, lock stock and barrel. I already have all I need for salvation. Nothing is worth risking the loss of that.

 

Here is my answer. No one obliged to believe in private apparitions even if the Church has approved them. The Church has approved Lourdes and Fatima, but we are free to believe or not to believe in them. If Pope Francis' decision on Medj. is 'not approved', then it means that we'd better accept it and don't waste time on it anymore. I trust that the Holy Spirit guides our Pope and he will come to a right conclusion.

 

You do realize that decisions that have been made in the past re: private revelations have been altered or changed by later bishops......or whoever is the local authority over the decision. We've had popes as well make different decisions about various private revelations than the prior decisions. More information is discovered that plays into the discernment process. So the "not approved" isn't always written in stone. Everyone knows what JPII thought about Medj but the ongoing process could not be finalized. I mean, good grief, the local bishop would not even invite him to the place with that history of territorial prejudice! And there have been so called commissions that were not according to the process as outlined by the Church...iow, they were shams that worked to prevent the real facts from even being presented or considered and thus no one is obliged to accept what is not in truth, under their conscience. That was the case in the early decision making process of Medj and the process was interrupted by the war thus the rather neutral position was adopted but the process was transferred to the Vatican with new commission. So that is an example of not stopping the process with only the last decision. All true private revelations seem to have gone through the trial....as well as those involved in them. It would seem then that due to the massive influence and appeal and recorded fruit of this modern day place/Medj and its gigantic barrier to Satan's capture of souls in his final challenge that it's only expected that it, above practically all others, would come against one of the strongest challenges by the world to stop it or deny its graces in the history of private revelations. Faith should never be without reason....JPII strongly emphasized that truth.

 

Faith should never go against reason but sometimes goes beyond reason. Sometimes we are wanting in our ability to reason. That is why the church teaches equivocation of intellect. Salvation comes to us in our capacity to understand and God's grace makes up for the rest.

 

So, the result of your long reply is that all evaluations of the apparitions are relative? They can be re-examined over and over again, eh? Nobody can be sure of anything? Well, I don't buy that.

Our faith should not be based on apparitions but on Jesus our Savior, Bible and the Magisterium.
It is true that there are good fruits coming from Medjugorje because people go to sacraments, pray and are open to God irrespective of whether our Mother is appearing there or not. Period.