Cardinal Ratzinger: We Have Not Published the Whole Third Secret of Fatima

I agree. It was not like he posted anything shameful or incriminating about himself either. Moreover, as you say, he was very factual in his discussions on private revelation.

Maybe this is all just a misunderstanding. I hold out hope that Kevin and Quis are able to talk and resolve the matter. Let's pray for this intention, Harper (and all)!

 

He acts like a freemanson. He came here to convince that there is no more about third secret. Failed.

 

That is not true. Scroll back. He explicitly stated there was more.

 

Yes, I see, It was an answer directly to me, but changing the focus, and in general it is what we can extract of his argumentations, and then erasing, and saying that was not him etc.

 

Here is a question:

Padraig argued comments posted on a public forum were personal information.

Should posters here be able to delete what they say, so no one will be able to find it on the internet later on?

 

Given how he was treated by people here, maybe he just wanted to leave and be at peace? Why read anything else into it?

 

Except when she didn't! The same requirements were there as in all the other prior "consecrations" by the prior Popes which she stated lacked all the Bishops' participation as well as the lack of mention of Russia by name. Nothing changed of those necessary requirements which Lucia was adamant about previously....unless one wishes to call Sr. Lucia a liar in her prior statements when she wasn't under complete control by Vatican officials like Bertone which btw his own claims and limitations of the message of Fatima were refuted by statements given by Pope Benedict. As they say, now then, "the rest of the story":

May 1936 - Our Lord speaks again to Sister Lucy and tells her that the conversion of Russia will occur only when that nation is solemnly and publicly consecrated to the Immaculate Heart by the Pope together with all the bishops. On another occasion, Our Lady tells Sister Lucy that Russia was to be the instrument of world chastisement, unless beforehand the conversion of “that poor nation” was obtained through the Consecration.

October 31 and December 8, 1942 - Pope Pius XII, acting alone, consecrates the world, but not Russia, to the Immaculate Heart. A few weeks later Winston Churchill observes that “the hinges of fate” have turned, and the Allies begin winning most of their battles against Hitler's armies. In the spring of 1943, Our Lord tells Sister Lucy that world peace will not result from this consecration, although the war would be shortened. World War II will continue for another two years.

October 1943 - After one month of prayer and reflection, the Bishop of Fatima, His Excellency José da Silva, gives Sister Lucy a formal, written order to write down the Third Secret. Sister Lucy tries to obey immediately, but for over two months is mysteriously unable to commit the Third Secret to paper.

January 2, 1944 - Our Lady again appears to Sister Lucy and bids her to write down the third part of the Secret entrusted to her at Fatima in July 1917, which will become known as simply the Third Secret of Fatima. The Virgin requests that the Third Secret be revealed to the world not later than 1960. When later asked why the Third Secret had to be revealed by 1960, Sister Lucy states: “Because the Blessed Virgin wishes it so,” and “It [the Third Secret] will be clearer then.”

January 9, 1944 - Sister Lucy writes to tell the Bishop of Fatima that after months of being unable to do so, and causing the Bishop to wait so long, she was finally able to obey his command that she write down the Third Secret.

June 17, 1944 - Since Sister Lucy will not allow anyone but a bishop to carry the one-page letter containing the words of Our Lady in the Third Secret, up to this date it has not been given to the Bishop of Fatima. On this day a bishop visits near the Convent in Tuy and Sister Lucy entrusts the Secret to him. He in turn gives it to Bishop José da Silva of Fatima on that same day. The Bishop of Fatima is free to read the Secret immediately, but chooses not to.

July 15, 1946 - In answer to a question from Professor William T. Walsh, Sister Lucy points out that Our Lady did not ask for the consecration of the world (as was done by Pope Pius XII in 1942), but only and specifically RUSSIA. “If this is done,” says Sister Lucy, Our Lady promises to “convert Russia and there will be peace.”

July 7, 1952 - Pope Pius XII consecrates Russia specifically, but he is not joined by all the Catholic bishops of the world because he did not ask them to participate, not having been advised that this was necessary. The war in Korea continues, and other wars follow.

September 2, 1952 - Father Schweigl interrogates Sister Lucy about the Third Secret at her convent in Coimbra, Portugal. He had been sent there by Pope Pius XII on a special mission. On his return to the Russicum in Rome, Father Schweigl confides this to one of his colleagues: “I cannot reveal anything of what I learned at Fatima concerning the Third Secret, but I can say that it has two parts: one concerns the Pope. The other, logically — although I must say nothing — would have to be the continuation of the words: In Portugal the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved.”December 26, 1957 - Father Fuentes interviews Sister Lucy. She tells him of many nations disappearing from the face of the earth and of many souls going to hell as a result of ignoring Our Lady's Fatima Message.

1958 - Father Fuentes publishes the interview with Sister Lucy with the Imprimatur of the Bishop of Fatima. It is read widely and no one questions its authenticity.

October 1962 - Just before the opening of the Second Vatican Council, the Vatican agrees with Moscow that the Council will not condemn Soviet Russia or communism in general, in exchange for which two Russian Orthodox observers would attend the Council, as desired by Pope John XXIII. This agreement launches the policy of Ostpolitik, which constrains the Vatican from opposing Communism by name as well as prevents it from condemning communist regimes which persecute Catholics. The new Vatican policy is in favor of “dialogue” and negotiations with the communists.

1966 - In the aftermath of Vatican II, the Bishop of Fatima, Bishop John Venancio, comes to understand the necessity and urgency of defending the authentic message of Our Lady against the perfidious attacks of the progressivists — all disciples of the modernist Jesuit, Father Dhanis. To defend the Message of Fatima against revisionists, in 1966 the Bishop commissions a learned Claretian priest, Father Joaquin Alonso, to establish a complete critical history of the revelations of Fatima. Ten years later, Father Alonso will complete his work, entitled Fatima Texts and Critical Studies. The massive work presents 5,396 documents, ranging from the beginnings of the Fatima apparitions until 12 November 1974. His manuscripts were “very well prepared,” according to the Abbé René Laurentin, who consults them himself.

November 15, 1966 - New revisions in the Code of Canon Law permit anyone in the Church to publish on Marian apparitions, including those at Fatima, without need of an imprimatur. Out of the one billion Catholics in the world, only Sister Lucy — the very person who received the Message of Fatima — is still forbidden to reveal the Fatima secret, even though Our Lady had expressed Her will that the Secret be revealed to the Church and the world no later than 1960. Sister Lucy remains under an order of silence to this day, unable to speak freely about Fatima without special permission from the Vatican, specifically from Cardinal Ratzinger or the Pope.

May 13, 1967 - Sister Lucy meets Pope Paul VI in the open public square of Fatima during his visit there. In the presence of 1,000,000 pilgrims, she pleads to speak with the Pope. She weeps when the Pope rebuffs her and tells her “speak to your bishop.” According to at least one Fatima expert, Sister Lucy pleaded with Pope Paul VI to release the Third Secret, but he refused.

(cont'd below)

 

(cont'd from above)

1975 - After 10 years of studying the Fatima archives, Father Alonso declares, in public, that Father Fuentes' published 1957 interview of Sister Lucy was a true and accurate report of her statements concerning the content of the Message of Fatima.

1975 - Father Alonso's 24 volumes of 800 pages each are ready for publication. This monumental work on the Message of Fatima includes at least 5,396 documents. The presses are literally stopped by the new Bishop of Fatima, Monsignor do Amaral, preventing Father Alonso's ten years of research from reaching the public. Two of the twenty-four volumes will eventually be published (in 1992 and 1999, respectively), but only in a heavily edited form.

May 13, 1981 - Pope John Paul II is shot on the very anniversary of the first apparition of Our Lady of Fatima. The shots are fired at the same instant the Pope turns to look at a picture of Our Lady of Fatima pinned to a little girl's sweater. The bullets miss their mark. The Pope recognizes that Our Lady of Fatima intervened to save his life.
June 7, 1981 - The Pope consecrates the world, but not Russia, while still recovering from his wounds.
July 18, 1981 - According to Msgr. Bertone (who, as just noted, is contradicted by the Pope's spokesman, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, on this point), Pope John Paul II reads the Third Secret for the first time.
May 12, 1982 - On the eve of Pope John Paul II's visit to Fatima, L'Osservatore Romano — the Pope's own newspaper — publishes an article by Father Umberto Maria Pasquale, S.D.B. about one of his conversations with Sister Lucy and her subsequent letter to him on the subject of the Consecration of Russia. In this interview, Father Pasquale reveals to the world that Sister Lucy clearly and emphatically told him that Our Lady of Fatima never asked for the consecration of the world but only the consecration of Russia. Father Pasquale also publishes a photographically-reproduced copy of a handwritten note by Sister Lucy attesting to their conversation on this point.
Father Pasquale, a well-known Salesian priest, has known Sister Lucy since 1939. Up to 1982 he has received 157 letters from her. Here is his own testimony, as published in L'Osservatore Romano:
“I wanted to clarify the question of the Consecration of Russia, in having recourse to the source. On August 5, 1978, in the Carmel of Coimbra, I had a lengthy interview with the seer of Fatima, Sister Lucy. At a certain moment I said to her: ‘Sister, I should like to ask you a question. If you cannot answer me, let it be! But if you can answer it, I would be most grateful to you, for you to clear up a point for me which does not appear clear to many people ... Has Our Lady ever spoken to you about the consecration of the world to Her Immaculate Heart?’ - ‘No, Father Umberto! Never! At the Cova da Iria in 1917, Our Lady had promised: I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia ... to prevent the spreading of her errors throughout the world, wars among several nations, persecutions against the Church ... In 1929, at Tuy, as She had promised, Our Lady came back to tell me that the moment had come to ask the Holy Father for the consecration of that country (Russia)’...”
After this conversation, Father Pasquale, wishing to have a written declaration from Sister Lucy, had addressed this request to her: “Has Our Lady ever spoken to you about the consecration of the world to Her Immaculate Heart?” Father Pasquale then received a written response from Sister Lucy, dated April 13, 1980. A copy is reproduced below.

Here is the translation of the pertinent
section of Sister Lucy's handwritten note:

​

“Reverend Father Umberto,

“In replying to your question, I will clarify:
Our Lady of Fatima, in Her request, referred only to the Consecration of Russia” …

May 13, 1982 - Pope John Paul II consecrates the world, but not Russia, at Fatima. The bishops of the world do not participate.

May 19, 1982 - In L'Osservatore Romano, the Holy Father explains why he did not specifically consecrate Russia, declaring that he had “tried to do everything possible in the concrete circumstances.”
July/August 1982 - The Blue Army's Soul Magazine publishes an alleged interview with Sister Lucy in which she supposedly claims that the Consecration of Russia has been accomplished by the ceremony of May 13, 1982. !!!!!

(cont'd below)

 

(cont'd from above)

1982-83 - In private comments to friends and relatives, Sister Lucy repeatedly denies that the Consecration has been done. When asked to say so publicly in early 1983, Sister Lucy tells Father Joseph de Sainte Marie that she must have “official permission from the Vatican” before she can make such a statement.

A year later, in May of 1982, the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romanopublished an article about Sr. Lucia by Father Umberto Maria Pasquale, a Salesian priest who had known her since 1939. Fr. Pasquale reported that Sr. Lucia told him emphatically that Our Lady had never asked for the consecration of the world, but only of Russia. He also published a photographic reproduction of a handwritten note to him from Sr. Lucia confirming this point.

March 19, 1983 - At the Holy Father's request, Sister Lucy meets again with the Papal Nuncio, Archbishop Portalupi; Dr. Lacerda; and this time also with Father Messias Coelho. During this meeting Sister Lucy confirms that the Consecration of Russia was not done because Russia did not appear clearly as the object of consecration and the world's bishops did not participate. She explains that she could not say so publicly before because she did not have the permission of the Vatican.

September 1985 - In an interview in Sol de Fatima magazine (a publication of friends of the Spanish Blue Army), Sister Lucy affirms that the Consecration of Russia still has not been done because, yet again, Russia was not the clear object of the 1984 consecration and the world's episcopate did not participate.

1985 - Cardinal Gagnon, in an interview with Father Caillon, acknowledges the Consecration of Russia has still not been done.

1986 - Maria do Fetal publicly quotes Sister Lucy (her cousin) as saying that the Consecration of Russia still has not been done. Maria do Fetal will consistently maintain that Sister Lucy told her this until July 1989.
1986 - 1987 - Father Paul Leonard Kramer writes “The Plot to Silence Our Lady” (June 1986) and a sequel entitled “The (USA) Blue Army Leadership Has Followed a Deliberate Policy of Falsifying the Fatima Message” (April 1987). Both articles expose the bogus 1982 Soul Magazine interview and the USA Blue Army's subsequent disinformation about the Consecration requested by Our Lady.

July 20, 1987 - Interviewed quickly outside her convent while voting, Sister Lucy confirms to journalist Enrico Romero that the Consecration of Russia has not been done.

October 25, 1987 - In an audience with a dozen Catholic leaders, Cardinal Mayer publicly acknowledges that the Consecration has not been done according to Our Lady's specific request.

November 26, 1987 - In a private meeting, Cardinal Stickler confirms that the Consecration has not been done because the Pope lacks the support of the bishops. “They do not obey him,” says Cardinal Stickler.

July 1989 - In the presence of three witnesses at the Hotel Solar da Marta in Fatima, Father Messias Coelho reveals that Sister Lucy has just received an anonymous “instruction” from unidentified persons in the Vatican bureaucracy. The “instruction” states that Sister Lucy and her fellow religious must now say that the Consecration of Russia was accomplished in the ceremony of March 25, 1984, even though Russia was never mentioned and the world's bishops did not participate.

After this development, various witnesses — including, it is claimed, Sister Lucy herself — begin to repudiate their own prior statements that the Consecration has not been done. These witnesses previously clearly stated that Russia could not possibly have been consecrated as requested in the Fatima Message because of the failure to mention Russia and the failure to obtain the participation of the world's bishops. Thus begins a process of “revising” Our Lady's request from the Consecration of Russia to the Consecration of the world.

May 13, 2000 - During the ceremonies for the beatification of Jacinta and Francisco, Cardinal Sodano announces that the Third Secret of Fatima will be revealed. (The Secretariat of State had previously tried to divert the beatification ceremonies from Fatima to a group beatification ceremony at the Vatican, involving other beati unrelated to Fatima.)

Cardinal Sodano, however, gives a misleading description of the Third Secret, claiming that it consists of a vision in which “the Pope apparently falls dead”. The actual text of the vision (to be revealed in the following month) states that the Pope is killed. Cardinal Sodano is clearly paving the way for a bogus “interpretation” of the Secret which will claim that the Third Secret culminated with the failed attempt on the Pope's life in 1981, and that all the events prophesied in the Secret, to use his words, “now belong to the past.”

June 26, 2000 - At a press conference, the Vatican publishes a text it claims is the entire Third Secret. The text describes a vision in which the Pope (a “bishop in white”) is killed by a band of soldiers who shoot him down while he is kneeling at the foot of a large wooden cross atop a hill, after having traversed a half-ruined city filled with corpses. The execution of the Pope is followed by the execution of many bishops, priests and laity.

The published vision contains no words of Our Lady, even though, when it announced suppression of the Secret in 1960, the Vatican itself referred to “the words which Our Lady confided to the children as a secret.” The vision fails to mention the words which clearly follow “In Portugal the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved etc.” — the phrase Sister Lucy included in her fourth memoir as part of the integral text of the Third Secret of Fatima. The phrase concerning the dogma of the Faith in Portugal is mysteriously demoted to a footnote in the Vatican commentary on the Secret, where it is ignored by both Cardinal Ratzinger and Msgr. Bertone, the co-authors of the commentary.

Cardinal Ratzinger's portion of the commentary specifically states that he and Msgr. Bertone are following the “interpretation” given by Cardinal Sodano: i.e., that the Message of Fatima, and the Third Secret in particular, relates entirely to events which now belong to the past. Accordingly, Cardinal Ratzinger claims that the Pope's escape from death in 1981 is what is depicted in the vision of the Pope being killed. Even the secular media recognize the falsity of this interpretation.

The only Fatima “authority” Cardinal Ratzinger cites is Father Edouard Dhanis, S.J., a modernist Jesuit who spent years casting doubt on the prophetic elements of the Message of Fatima concerning Russia. Father Dhanis claimed these elements of the Message were pious inventions of Sister Lucy. Father Dhanis refused to study the official Fatima archives or consult other private documents made available to him in order not to have to withdraw his false thesis. In keeping with Father Dhanis' errors, which reduce Fatima to generic piety with no prophecy of future events, Cardinal Ratzinger's portion of the commentary concludes by asserting that all that remains of the Message of Fatima is prayer and penance.



The astounding quote by Monsignor Bertone, Cardinal Ratzinger's assistant, in the commentary (photographically reproduced [in part] in the box immediately above, from the Vatican's booklet The Message of Fatima) shows how deeply into error and revisionism Msgr. Bertone and the rest of the anti-Fatima establishment have fallen. Msgr. Bertone says here, in effect, that Our Lady's promise of a period of peace was dependent on the revelation of the Third Secret, when, in fact, Our Lady said that a period of peace will be granted to the world only when Russia has been consecrated to Her Immaculate Heart and thereby converted. If one had not seen Msgr. Bertone's words in print, one would have doubted that any sensible Catholic theologian or Church official could have presented such a gross misrepresentation of the Message of Fatima. In view of the current state of the world, Msgr. Bertone's proclamation of the end of an era “marked by tragic human lust for power and evil” borders on lunacy. What does he think we have today — an era of peace and tranquility?

Incredibly, the only person not to participate in the “revelation” of the Third Secret on June 26, 2000 is Sister Lucy herself. She is still not allowed to speak, even though the public is now being told that the Message of Fatima has been fully revealed and that nothing else remains hidden.

May 16, 2001 - Reflecting the growing skepticism of millions of Catholics, Mother Angelica states on her live televison show on this date that she does not believe the Vatican has revealed the entirety of the Third Secret:

“As for the Secret, well I happen to be one of those individuals who thinks we didn't get the whole thing. I told ya! I mean, you have the right to your own opinion, don't you, Father? There, you know, that's my opinion.Because I think it's scary. And I don't think the Holy See is going to say something that does not happen, that might happen. And then what does it do if it doesn't happen? I mean the Holy See cannot afford to make prophecies.”

 

(cont'd from above)

And, of course we have the actual eye witnessed declaration of the great and trustworthy Fr. Amorth who defined those who controlled the consecration words of JPII....not to mention Russia by name when he asked if he could 3 times....why he felt that was even necessary before honoring the Mother's specific requests in order to gain peace is beyond many except for the agreement of Ostpolitik that only ended at the fall of Soviet Union (but not Communism). So even the Pope who is supposed to be responsible for THE Consecration fulfillment himself demonstrated during THAT Consecration that he knew what should have been said but wasn't said placing it in the same category as all the earlier attempts that were classified as not accomplishing the required elements. Nothing had changed....no extra messages with lessened requirements. Only an "acceptance" with another "lesser" type gift granted as had previously occurred in the previous incompletions. Then there are the (one would assume then quite unnecessary) later "follow up" consecrations by same Pope AFTER the 1984 that continued in the same vein admitting to the world that the job hadn't been done earlier...an admittance by his own actions.

Of course somehow those living in some alternate universe who wish to convince those in the reality of the moment, which is recognized as sin ridden worse than the time of Noah, to drink the Kool Aid that this IS the Mother's era of peace as promised to follow a full consecration. Go figure. Russia is now converted and those living in the Baltic states, Ukraine, Turkey, Germany are living now completely without any anxiety or fear from a now "converted" Russia. Just like the immediate answers to the Guadalupe promises within that territory....not!

The hundredth anniversary of the Fatima apparitions is of course 2017. The King of France learned the hard way when he failed to carry out the Consecration of France to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, as Our Lord requested in His message to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque in 1689. King Louis was guillotined and his country experienced a bloodbath of their revolution which effected the whole world. The "Pope will have much to suffer" and the still awaited complete murder of that "Bishop in white" with the other prelates with him remains in the offing. At least THAT part of the Secret IS accepted.....sad that it is likely still to occur due to the Church's failure so many times.

It's either that people wish to say that Sr. Lucy was lying about what heaven demanded in all those many failed consecrations at the times when she was still permitted to be speak openly. Or they only accept what was stated as "accepted" when nothing had changed re: the same stipulated requirements but in a time when she was only permitted to state what those in authority over her from the Vatican permitted and no more. I'll take what came from that close up eye witness to the Consecration (who, btw, arranged it) over Fr. Fox's statements which only repeated the limited and controlled talking points ordered by the same Vatican authorities. If only.....and we would not be in the dire straits of the current moment.

 

That was always my view. However, Padraig seemed to imply otherwise. I was wondering if there were a "policy" here.

 

I do not mean to play the devil's advocate here, but there is nothing in the rules about a person removing one's own posts.

This would have to be clarified. One is able to remove one's own posts. Perhaps that feature should be disabled?

 

CrewDog, this seems to me an example of trolling -- adding nothing to the discussion but personally scoring points against someone else. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Also, I don't believe he is in Austin.

 

Yes, I see that, but it is prefaced by the words "Requests for Content etc". There is a loophole there as someone may read it as "I don't need to request." Admittedly, there is no imperative for that.