One man's gossip is another man's evangelization or defending the Faith, apparently. (But we would never proselytize. That would be solemn nonsense, as bad as gossiping, right?)
In the spirit of entering the most holy and sacred Tridiuum, I would hope this conversation could be placed on hold as I don't see it being very edifying. Peace.
There is already so much on hold , like the latest Scalfari interview. Some of us just have to laugh at some of the nonsense we read these days. Look at what David thinks is a fair comment. Its not the Catholic Faith. Laugh or cry ,we all have our different ways of coping.
Yes, miker, I would hope also that these matters could be left until the synod itself. Unfortunately, postings continue to be made which are almost invariably from the 'traditionalist' standpoint which certainly does not support the Pope's approach. Any kind of response which challenges that standpoint is viewed as certainly not 'fair comment'. If it is considered ok to make postings putting forth Cardinal Burke's standpoint, then it should also be ok to post alternative standpoints. But it would be better if all could wait for the synod and be confident in its success under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Petrine ministry.
It's not really about fair versus unfair, traditional versus post Vatican II, harsh versus "merciful," or favorite cardinal versus the latest quip from a loquacious pope. It's simply about orthodox versus heterodox. And not even a pope can make orthodox that which for 2000 years has been taught to be heterodox.
Miker ,I have to disagree with you. This Holy Tridium and the parallels of the Church and the world today,are strikeing! On one hand we have terrorists killing Christians the World over, mainly by muslims and on the other secular progressives are attacking Chritians as intolerant thru Europe and America Tonight Jesus will pray to the Father, JN 17 v8 I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 II am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine; 10 all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled. Friday Pilate asks Jesus John 18:38 Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” [ Jesus Sentenced to Death ] For this I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Every one who is of the truth hears my voice.” 38 Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” Cardinal Burke, its implied is leading a schism in the Church when we have NO proof in word or deed. But we have progressives in the Church thumbing there nose at Rome and have the same theology as the UN demands on the Church By EWTN News' Vatican Observer, Andrea Gagliarducci UN versus Holy See on human sexuality, gender theory Pope Benedict And in his last Christmas address to the Roman Curia, given Dec. 21, 2012, Benedict XVI stated that today the very idea of human nature is in crisis, and that this crisis is based on gender “as a new philosophy of sexuality.” “The very notion of being – of what being human really means – is being called into question,” noting that sexual complementarity, and one's sex as a given, “is what is now disputed.” He added that in the relativist ideology of gender, “man and woman as created realities, as the nature of the human being, no longer exist. Man calls his nature into question,” which also calls into question the nature of the family. “Likewise, the child has lost the place he had occupied hitherto and the dignity pertaining to him.” “Now, perforce, from being a subject of rights, the child has become an object to which people have a right and which they have a right to obtain.” Benedict said that “the defence of the family is about man himself. And it becomes clear that when God is denied, human dignity also disappears. Whoever defends God is defending man.” Defending man is the Church’s mission, and integral humanism is the Holy See’s international agenda – the basis of the Holy See's dialogue with states, societies, and religions. Benedict and Burke sound the same......As Cardinal Burke stated,these sexual issues should be a different Synod than The Family
Burke's standpoint is the 2000 year continual teaching of Catholicism on the subject, i.e., Truth. The alternative standpoints are the Kasper heresies, i.e., error. There is no development of doctrine or application of "mercy" that can trump or change the Truth about marriage and divorce founded in the words of Christ and Scripture. If this forum wants to permit equal weight to be given to each position, that is the prerogative of the forum owner/administrators, but the Forum would cease to be pleasing to Our Lady in doing so.
One day, after Holy Communion Sister Faustina heard God’s voice: “My daughter, look into the abyss of My Mercy and give praise and glory to this Mercy of Mine. Do it this way: Gather all sinners from the entire world and immerse them into the abyss of My Mercy. I want to give Myself to souls; I yearn for souls, My daughter. On the Day of My Feast, the FEAST OF MERCY, you will go through the whole world and bring fainting souls to the spring of My Mercy. I shall heal and strengthen them.” My mercy is greater than all the sins of the world. These words say everything, no sin, no person, is beyond the mercy of God until the door is closed. PF is continuing the Divine Mercy messsage so clearly and not shutting the door to anyone unless they refuse to enter, even at the very last minute! Jesus will close the door on mercy when time is right. Francis is swinging the door wide open and I believe this is Our Lady's desire. Cardinal Burke, it could be argued hasn't fully embrassed the Divine Mercy message like the pope has and desires the church to do also fully. It doesn't mean he isn't holy and richteous just that he may not be opening the door as wide as he could/should. When the illumination/miracle/etc happens the church has to be ready. I feel the Pope is preparing for this. Peace to all.
Brian, Your last point says it all. There are some within the Catholic Church that want to push a heterodox position. But the Church can't. So while I regret the turmoil and confusion, I am confident and at peace! Truth will prevail. Safe in the Barque of Peter!
MMM, I agree with most of what your saying.Our Lady has told us, many souls go to hell for they have no one to pray for them, Our Lord is saying the same to Faustina. Its a last call,if you will....Be Not Afraid! We all have to seek the Truth and convert our hearts to our Lords will.Burke in interviews has said he has compassion for those who struggle to overcome from those who want acceptance as they are,the Church must change... they believe. We will ALL be judged on LOVE and LOVE of Truth will be in front! Lord be Merciful to me a sinner!
It sure cant.... Pope Pius XII "Progress" of dogmas is, in reality, nothing but corruption of dogmas . . . I absolutely reject the heretical doctrine of the evolution of dogma, as passing from one meaning to another, and different from the sense in which the Church originally held it. And likewise, I condemn every error by which philosophical inventions, or creations of the human mind, or products elaborated by human effort and destined to indefinite progress in the future are substituted for that Divine Deposit given by Christ to the faithful custody of the Church . . . Condemned and proscribed is the error that dogmas are nothing but interpretations and evolutions of Christian intelligence which have increased and perfected the little seed hidden in the Gospel. Pope Paul VI Those wretches tainted with the error of Indifferentism and Modernism hold that dogmatic truth is not absolute, but relative: that is, that it must adapt itself to the varying necessities of the times and the varying dispositions of souls, since it is not contained in an unchangeable revelation, but is, by its very nature, meant to accommodate itself to the life of man. Pope St. Pius X No one is allowed to offer, write, or compose any faith other than that which was defined by the holy Fathers . . . Whoever shall dare to compose another faith shall be subject to anathema.
...That said ,it is clear that the Churchmen will indeed yield to Apostasy as foretold in so much prophecy. Pope Pius XII makes it clear.... “I am worried by the Blessed Virgin’s messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a Divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul. … I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the true Faith of the Church, reject Her ornaments and make Her feel remorse for Her historical past.” “A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God. In our churches, Christians will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them. Like Mary Magdalene, weeping before the empty tomb, they will ask, ‘Where have they taken Him?’” http://marienfried.com/catholic teachings/prophecy of apostasy.html
MMM, our Lord is all merciful, BUT one has to say yes to his mercy. Saying yes to mortal sin is saying no to mercy. This, I believe, is Cardinal Burke's message and the message of Christ and His Church. Mercy is an invite back to sanctifying grace. When one chooses to remain steadfast in grave sin, it closes the door to His mercy and His forgiveness.
Exactly. And this message was just repeated by Cardinal Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith: "No Mercy Without Truth" -- Cardinal Müller on the Holy Year and the Synod of Bishops "The Holy Year is to serve the people to remember that mercy can not be without the truth," said Cardinal Gerhard Müller, Prefect of the Congregation. Man and the Church "are often tempted to separate one from the other," the cardinal said. The love of God is closely bound up with the truth. The same applies to the so-called broken families, those who are in an irregular situation. They need the attention of the Church, not in new pastoral ways, but by the truth. Cardinal Müller led a discussion with the Italian news agency ANSA about the upcoming Holy Year. Cardinal Müller belonged to the most ardent defenders at the Extraordinary Synod of Bishops last October, of the Catholic teaching on marriage. In preparation for the Ordinary Synod of Bishops on the family next October, he always returns to take a position on the world stage for the sacrament of marriage as it has been taught by the Church of Christ and how this is why the Church has taught it for almost 2000 years.
Pope Francis speech at the conclusion of the Synod Below, please find Vatican Radio's provisional translation of Pope Francis' address to the Synod Fathers: Dear Eminences, Beatitudes, Excellencies, Brothers and Sisters, With a heart full of appreciation and gratitude I want to thank, along with you, the Lord who has accompanied and guided us in the past days, with the light of the Holy Spirit. From the heart I thank Cardinal Lorenzo Baldisseri, Secretary General of the Synod, Bishop Fabio Fabene, under-secretary, and with them I thank the Relators, Cardinal Peter Erdo, who has worked so much in these days of family mourning, and the Special Secretary Bishop Bruno Forte, the three President delegates, the transcribers, the consultors, the translators and the unknown workers, all those who have worked with true fidelity and total dedication behind the scenes and without rest. Thank you so much from the heart. I thank all of you as well, dear Synod fathers, Fraternal Delegates, Auditors, and Assessors, for your active and fruitful participation. I will keep you in prayer asking the Lord to reward you with the abundance of His gifts of grace! I can happily say that – with a spirit of collegiality and of synodality – we have truly lived the experience of “Synod,” a path of solidarity, a “journey together.” And it has been “a journey” – and like every journey there were moments of running fast, as if wanting to conquer time and reach the goal as soon as possible; other moments of fatigue, as if wanting to say “enough”; other moments of enthusiasm and ardour. There were moments of profound consolation listening to the testimony of true pastors, who wisely carry in their hearts the joys and the tears of their faithful people. Moments of consolation and grace and comfort hearing the testimonies of the families who have participated in the Synod and have shared with us the beauty and the joy of their married life. A journey where the stronger feel compelled to help the less strong, where the more experienced are led to serve others, even through confrontations. And since it is a journey of human beings, with the consolations there were also moments of desolation, of tensions and temptations, of which a few possibilities could be mentioned: - One, a temptation to hostile inflexibility, that is, wanting to close oneself within the written word, (the letter) and not allowing oneself to be surprised by God, by the God of surprises, (the spirit); within the law, within the certitude of what we know and not of what we still need to learn and to achieve. From the time of Christ, it is the temptation of the zealous, of the scrupulous, of the solicitous and of the so-called – today – “traditionalists” and also of the intellectuals. - The temptation to a destructive tendency to goodness [it. buonismo], that in the name of a deceptive mercy binds the wounds without first curing them and treating them; that treats the symptoms and not the causes and the roots. It is the temptation of the “do-gooders,” of the fearful, and also of the so-called “progressives and liberals.” - The temptation to transform stones into bread to break the long, heavy, and painful fast (cf. Lk 4:1-4); and also to transform the bread into a stone and cast it against the sinners, the weak, and the sick (cf Jn 8:7), that is, to transform it into unbearable burdens (Lk 11:46). - The temptation to come down off the Cross, to please the people, and not stay there, in order to fulfil the will of the Father; to bow down to a worldly spirit instead of purifying it and bending it to the Spirit of God. - The temptation to neglect the “depositum fidei” [the deposit of faith], not thinking of themselves as guardians but as owners or masters [of it]; or, on the other hand, the temptation to neglect reality, making use of meticulous language and a language of smoothing to say so many things and to say nothing! They call them “byzantinisms,” I think, these things… Dear brothers and sisters, the temptations must not frighten or disconcert us, or even discourage us, because no disciple is greater than his master; so if Jesus Himself was tempted – and even called Beelzebul (cf. Mt 12:24) – His disciples should not expect better treatment. Personally I would be very worried and saddened if it were not for these temptations and these animated discussions; this movement of the spirits, as St Ignatius called it (Spiritual Exercises, 6), if all were in a state of agreement, or silent in a false and quietist peace. Instead, I have seen and I have heard – with joy and appreciation – speeches and interventions full of faith, of pastoral and doctrinal zeal, of wisdom, of frankness and of courage: and of parresia. And I have felt that what was set before our eyes was the good of the Church, of families, and the “supreme law,” the “good of souls” (cf. Can. 1752). And this always – we have said it here, in the Hall – without ever putting into question the fundamental truths of the Sacrament of marriage: the indissolubility, the unity, the faithfulness, the fruitfulness, that openness to life (cf. Cann. 1055, 1056; and Gaudium et spes, 48). the remaining text of the address is at: http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/10/18/pope_francis_speech_at_the_conclusion_of_the_synod/1108944
Cardinal Burke Responds to Recent Criticisms (7089) In an Italian-language interview, the patron of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta said, ‘I am not against the Pope; I have never spoken out against the Pope. … My purpose is to serve the truth.’ by RICCARDO CASCIOLI 04/17/2015 Comments (35) Cardinal Raymond Burke – Joaquín Peiró Pérez/CNA Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, 66, is troubled by the negative campaign that has been waged against him. Ordained a bishop by Pope John Paul II in 1995, the respected expert in canon law was called to Rome by Pope Benedict XVI in 2008 as prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura before being appointed cardinal in 2010. In recent months, critics have described him as an “ultraconservative fanatic,” “anti-Conciliar,” “in conspiracy against the Pope” and even ready for a schism should the upcoming family synod open up unwelcome changes. The criticism has been so defamatory that in Italy several bishops have even refused to host his lectures in their dioceses. Where he has been allowed to give a conference — as recently in some cities in the north of Italy — there are invariably priests who oppose him and accuse him of spreading propaganda against the Pope. “It’s total nonsense, I don’t understand this attitude. I have never said a single word against the Pope; I strive only to serve the truth, a task that we all have. I have always seen my talks and my activities as a support to the Petrine ministry. The people who know me well can witness to the fact I am not anti-papal. On the contrary, I have always been extremely loyal and wanted to serve the Holy Father, as I am doing now.” Indeed, meeting him in his apartment, a stone’s throw from St. Peter’s Square, with his friendly manner and spontaneity, Cardinal Burke bears no resemblance to that hard defender of “cold doctrine” as he is described by mainstream media outlets. Cardinal Burke, in the debate that preceded and followed the first synod on the family, some of your statements did sound like criticisms of the Pope, or at least that is how they were interpreted. For example, quite a stir was caused by your recent remark, “I will resist; I’ll resist,” as a response to a possible decision of the Pope to grant Communion to the divorced and remarried. That comment was misrepresented, and there was no reference to Pope Francis. I believe that because I have always spoken very clearly on the issue of marriage and the family, there are people who want to undermine what I say by depicting me as an enemy of the Pope or even ready for a schism by using that answer I gave in an interview with a French television channel. How should we interpret that answer? Quite simply. The journalist asked me what I would do if, hypothetically, not referring to Pope Francis, a pontiff were to make decisions contrary to the Church’s doctrine and practice. I replied I should resist, because we are all in the service of the truth, starting with the Pope. The Church is not a political body, in the sense of power. The power is Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Therefore, I replied I would resist, and it would not be the first time that this has happened in the Church. There have been several moments in history where someone had to stand up to the pope, beginning with St. Paul against St. Peter, in the matter of Judaizers who wanted to impose circumcision on the converted Greeks. In my case, I am not resisting Pope Francis at all because he hasn’t done anything against the doctrine. Nor do I see myself in a fight against the Pope, as they try to depict me. I’m not pursuing the interests of a group or party. I am simply trying, as a cardinal, to be a teacher of the faith. Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/cardinal-burke-responds-to-recent-criticisms/#ixzz3XqNE2gca Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/cardinal-burke-responds-to-recent-criticisms/#ixzz3XqLsF9sz Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/cardinal-burke-responds-to-recent-criticisms/#ixzz3XqLMSpqJ
But newspapers often use a photo of you wearing a hat clearly out of date. Yes, I know, but it’s just incredible. I can explain: That photo was spread around after Il Foglio published it alongside the interview I did at the time of the synod. The interview had been done well, but, unfortunately, they chose a photo that had nothing to do with it, which I regret, because, in this way, they gave the mistaken impression of a person who lives in the past. The truth is that, after being named cardinal, I was invited to a diocese in the south of Italy for a conference on the liturgy. For the occasion, the organizer decided to give me as a gift an old-fashioned cardinal’s hat. I have no idea where he got it from. I held it in my hand and obviously had no intention of wearing it regularly, but he asked me to put it on to take at least one photo. This was the only time I put that hat on my head, but, unfortunately, that picture has been published all over the world, and some use it to give the impression that I go around like that. But I’ve never worn it, not even for a ceremony. You have also been named as the inspiration if not the promoter of the “Petition to Pope Francis for the Family,” which has been circulated to collect signatures by a number of traditionalist websites. I did sign that petition, but it is not my initiative or my idea. Nor did I write or collaborate in drafting the text. Anyone who says otherwise is affirming something false. As far as I know, it is an initiative by laypeople. I was shown the text, and I signed it, as have many other cardinals. Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/cardinal-burke-responds-to-recent-criticisms/#ixzz3XqQS5IdX
Another of the charges against you is that you are against the Second Vatican Council. These labels are easy to apply, but there is no basis in reality. All my theological education in the major seminary was based on the documents of Vatican II, and I am still trying to study these documents more deeply. I’m not at all opposed to the Council, and if one reads my writings, he will find that I quote the documents of Vatican II many times. What I don’t agree with is the so-called “spirit of the Council,” which is not faithful to the Council texts but purports to create something totally new, a new church that has nothing to do with all the so-called aberrations of the past. On this matter, I wholeheartedly follow Pope Benedict XVI’s enlightening presentation to the Roman Curia for Christmas 2005: It is the famous discourse in which he explains the correct hermeneutic, which is that of reform in continuity, as opposed to the hermeneutic of rupture in discontinuity that many sectors promote. Pope Benedict XVI’s presentation is brilliant and explains everything. Many things that happened after the Council and are attributed to the Council have nothing to do with the Council. This is the plain truth. Did Pope Francis “punish” you by removing you from the Apostolic Signatura and entrusting you with the patronage of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta? Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/cardinal-burke-responds-to-recent-criticisms/#ixzz3XqQw4g5v
In an interview with the Argentine newspaper La Nacion, the Pope already answered this question by explaining the reasons for his decision. This already says everything, and it is not up to me to comment. I can only say, without revealing any confidential information, that the Pope has never told me or given me the impression that there was anything he wanted to punish me for. Perhaps your “reputation” has to do with what Cardinal Walter Kasper called the “synod battle,” which also seems to grow in intensity as we get closer to the ordinary synod this coming October. At what stage are we now? I would say that there is now a much more extensive discussion on the topics covered by the synod, and this is a good thing. There is a greater number of cardinals, bishops and laypeople who are intervening, and this is very positive. Therefore, I don’t understand all the fuss last year made over the book Remaining in the Truth of Christ, to which I contributed, along with four other cardinals and four specialists on marriage. That was when the theory of a conspiracy against the Pope was born, a view echoed recently by the well-known Italian historian Alberto Melloni, co-author of a famous history of the Vatican Council II that pushes for a progressive interpretation of the Council. Melloni wrote an article for the most popular Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera, blaming the five cardinals of a conspiracy against the Pope. It is simply absurd. How can you possibly accuse of plotting against the Pope those who uphold what the Church has always taught and practiced on marriage and Communion? The book was certainly written as an aid for the synod to answer Cardinal Kasper’s thesis. But it is not polemical, it is a presentation completely faithful to the Tradition, and it is also of the highest scholarly quality possible. I am absolutely disposed to receive criticism on the content, but to say we conspired against the Pope is unacceptable. Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/cardinal-burke-responds-to-recent-criticisms/#ixzz3XqRRa0RZ
