Whoa, Brian! I was going to give you a high five on this post until I hit this last sentence. Pope Francis knows that lack of clarity on this issue will have dire results among the rank-and-file Catholics. I'm firmly convinced he allowed free reign in the preliminary session so that the true colors of the bishops would be there for all to see. Pope Francis will not capitulate this coming fall. Period! If anything, it will be his faithful stance that will bush his opponents to threaten schism. Safe in the Barque of Peter!
What purpose does espousing hypotheticals about the Pope do for anyone here? Seems to me that all it us doing now is taking away the peace of the forum. Good night and time for me to ignore this thread going forward.
I don't see anything wrong with the holy league. I've heard the main guy in this video on EWTN and enjoy his shows. I don't know cardinal burke, but he definely didn't sound well. He seemed to be short of breath a few times. Nothing wrong with what he said though. I am not a fan of Voris, so I don't watch his videos. But overall, this holy league sounds like a very good thing. As for all the hypthetical debate going on...I'm with Mike...that is not good for the forum. It seems some people already come to conclusions about pope francis and are very down on him and are already very, very worked up about a hypothetical situation. I don't see how that helps ones conversion. I choose to just pray and fast. I don't worry about the syonod. It is beyond my control and God's will will be done anyway, so why go in circles about it now? Pray, fast, and work on your conversion. If you are very close to Jesus through our lady, you will know which way to turn when these grave prophecies come to fulfillment.
Welcome back Brian. Im pretty sure most people do like Cardinal Burke. All he teaches is the truth.Like great saints before him... View attachment 2702
There are two types of Catholics...the Sunday Catholic and the Devoted Catholic. Sunday Catholics will accept the breaking of tradition without much resistance. The Devoted Catholic understands Catholic teachings and traditions. It will be very hard for the Pope or any other Bishop/Cardinal to make major theological changes without major resistance. My problem is with people assuming what Papa Francis is going to do. My prediction is that he is getting everyone to lay their cards on the table. The Cardinals and Clergy will have to decide if they stay with The Chair of Peter or they split up to follow the church of this world. In the future we might see a catholic church of england, a catholic church of the americas, a catholic church of germany and so on and so on. But the Roman Catholic Church will be the only true church. May Gods Will be Done
I believe the reason these things have been foretold is to help us prepare spiritually. These things will come. My assignment is to remain in a state of grace, in the Divine Will, and to be a peaceful, generous and joyful presence to those in my midst. Priests, Bishops, Cardinals and Popes have their assignments; I have mine. I will be judged on how well I carried out my mission, not on how well I critiqued the performance of others, or how accurately I guessed at what horrors they might commit in the future. And I work diligently to keep my eyes on Jesus, who is my joy and my peace. Even in the gravest times, it's possible to remain in His peace, as the recent martyrdoms have shown. When my peace is disturbed, I can assure you, it doesn't come from God.
Amen to that! I would add that part of our mission is to pray for our priests. There is a visionary with local approval in Italy who has important messages that insist on the need to pray for Pope Francis so that he will make the right decisions. (I'll see if I can find that to post precise message.) Hasn't our Blessed Mother said that many priests fall because they don't have enough prayers from the faithful?
That would be the indifference of the lukewarm. The hallmarks of a warrior in the army of Christ and our Lady would be the peace this world can not give, holy zeal and charity.
I sense an anger and something terribly wrong about this thread - and I'm not referencing Card. Burke nor the Holy League - but the direction the thread has gone. Maybe this is exactly the issues that will be faced and yes maybe it is all about how I respond. I know many got up in arms over the "who am I to judge" comment from the Pope. But remember the full verse is: "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get." I'm no theologian, but this does not say you get a free pass if you sin, but it does say, you will be judged - not by men, but by God. And if you do judge another harshly and condemn them, then , guess what- God will judge you in the exact same manner. There is nothing here that is "pharasitical". The peace of Christ is of great importance and yes, I will not allow it to be taken from me as best as I can. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:6-7). Then Jesus said to his disciples: ‘Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?’” (Luke 12:22-26) Why are you downcast, O my soul? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise him, my Savior and my God” (Psalm 42:5). Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil. This will bring health to your body and nourishment to your bones” (Proverbs 3:5-8). May the Peace of Christ be with your Spirit.
So here is the question for you and me. What would you do if a pope were to teach heresy? Anti-popes have been part of the history of Christianity and back then there was not the Catechism of the Catholic Church, encyclical's or the many volumes of Church documents that we have today to know Church doctrine (teachings on faith and morals). I think Cardinal Burke responded just as I would respond. My fidelity is to the truth of God, not in man made truth. This will not be a hypothetical question at some point in the not to distant future, if prophecy is fullfilled. As I said in another thread, I think Pope Francis is shrewd enough to bring out the sheep from the goats and he will gather all to himself who are of the Lord soon enough. Then as Cardinal Ratzinger foretold, the Church will become very small and at some point thereafter, with great stuggles in the Church and the world, an anti-Christ will raise his head and will teach what those in the world want to hear. I will stay with the truth, so help me God.
[quote="miker, post: Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil. This will bring health to your body and nourishment to your bones” (Proverbs 3:5-8). May the Peace of Christ be with your Spirit.[/quote] YUP MIKER! I'll say again! The "Mission" of The Church ... Magisterium, Clergy, Vatican, Museums, Art Works, Cathedrals, Parishes ..... is to get You & Me past the Pearly Gates into the Arms of The Holy Trinity ... PERIOD!! Fixate on Jesus! If any of the above distracts or confuses you ... Dump It!! GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
Thank you, Miker. My trust is in the Two Hearts. We are prayer warriors in an Army with unfathomable power. Let us fast, pray, and trust. Holy Church will prevail, as promised by our Savior. Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
What could possibly be concerning about this? Prayer, Adoration, devotion to Our Blessed Mother - is this concerning??? Holy League History Pope St. Pius V formed the original Holy League in response to the dire situation in which Christian Europe found itself in 1571. Small bands of Catholic men and remnant armies from various nations came together under the spiritual leadership of the saintly pontiff and the military leadership of Don John of Austria. By prayer and fasting, they implored the help of God’s grace, through the intercession of the Mother of God, and, by the grace of Almighty God, on October 7, 1571, at the Battle of Lepanto, the Christian fleet won a crushing victory over the Ottoman Turks, saving Christendom and western civilization. At this particular moment in time, the Church finds itself in a similar situation to that of the Church in the late Sixteenth Century. However, instead of a physical enemy on the horizon, the Church and the family (the domestic Church) are threatened daily by relativism, secularism, impurity, and confusion regarding Church teaching. The battle today “is not against human forces but against the principalities and powers, the rulers of this world of darkness, the evil spirits in the heavens” (Ephesians 6: 10-12). In response, faithful Catholics are longing to come together to combat these preternatural forces of evil. These men need something that will bring them together so that they can all work toward a common goal. The goal is to be in the state of grace, and that is why a new Holy League is being formed. Please go to their website and read what they are about: http://holyleague.com/
I would like to say my peace on this topic as I believe it is important. There may come a time when a Pope might issue a doctrine or change a discipline to which you may deeply disagree. I will get back to that in a moment but first lets talk about Pope Francis. Pope Benedict resigned and Pope Francis was elected. That makes Pope Francis the valid reigning Pope. A Pope can never teach heresy on faith or morals. (I know about the infallible, non-infallible, and theological opinion but lets just leave it at that). So the teaching part is covered, there is nothing to worry about there. A person might struggle with one teaching or another at different times, and that always happens, but nonetheless we accept the infallible teachings of the Pope with the full accent of Faith. So, if in my limited mind I personally think a doctrine does not make sense the problem is with me and not the doctrine or the Pope, the problem would be with me. Decisions on discipline are a whole different story. A Pope might make wise decisions or what seems to us to be unwise decisions. It is all up to him. That is why it is vital to understand what is a discipline or a doctrine, would you agree? I can only tell you what I would do if I disagreed with a decision of the temporal authority. I might say to myself "this seems unwise", or "I don't understand", but in the end I have to realize that the Pope holds the keys and he understands the faith better than I. Even if I disagreed with a decision on discipline, I would accept it. What alarms me is, this is NOT the tone of Cardinal Burke. Why would he even venture into saying the things he said in the article when we have a reigning Pope? Well, I cannot answer that, only he knows. Surely it is not because he disagrees with a decision on discipline that he thinks the Pope might change, and surely it is not with doctrine.
Pope Francis: Cardinals are servants of the Church Homily to New Cardinals 2/15/15 http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2015/02/15/pope_francis_cardinals_are_servants_of_the_church/1123586 THIS IS COPIED FROM TIS LINK- HALF WAY DOWN ITS PAGE.. There are two ways of thinking and of having faith: we can fear to lose the saved and we can want to save the lost. Even today it can happen that we stand at the crossroads of these two ways of thinking. The thinking of the doctors of the law, which would remove the danger by casting out the diseased person, and the thinking of God, who in his mercy embraces and accepts by reinstating him and turning evil into good, condemnation into salvation and exclusion into proclamation. These two ways of thinking are present throughout the Church’s history: casting off and reinstating. Saint Paul, following the Lord’s command to bring the Gospel message to the ends of the earth (cf. Mt 28:19), caused scandal and met powerful resistance and great hostility, especially from those who demanded unconditional obedience to the Mosaic law, even on the part of converted pagans. Saint Peter, too, was bitterly criticized by the community when he entered the house of the pagan centurion Cornelius (cf. Acts 10). The Church’s way, from the time of the Council of Jerusalem, has always always been the way of Jesus, the way of mercy and reinstatement. This does not mean underestimating the dangers of letting wolves into the fold, but welcoming the repentant prodigal son; healing the wounds of sin with courage and determination; rolling up our sleeves and not standing by and watching passively the suffering of the world. The way of the Church is not to condemn anyone for eternity; to pour out the balm of God’s mercy on all those who ask for it with a sincere heart. The way of the Church is precisely to leave her four walls behind and to go out in search of those who are distant, those on the “outskirts” of life. It is to adopt fully God’s own approach, to follow the Master who said: “Those who are well have no need of the physician, but those who are sick; I have come to call, not the righteous but sinners to repentance” (Lk 5:31-32). Nutshell of Francis' Thought...IMHO Peace
I'm pretty sure most here get all of this, it's basically Catholicism 101. Remember Vatican II? Doctrine was not "changed" there either. But pastoral changes occurred and much ambiguity which led to many abuses in the Church and here we are 50 years later with stripped churches, bland, watered down homilies, minimal reverence for the Eucharist etc. etc. If WE know doctrine cannot change, then so does old red tail. He doesn't go after doctrine, he goes after EVERYTHING else. Pastoral changes, disciplines, devotions, religious orders. Can't extinguish the light? Then surround it with darkness and hope nobody can find it. No worries, Our Holy Mother will inflame that Light which is Jesus in our hearts and defeat that bastard.
Thanks Mac, great advice. Seeing a good Cardinal maligned and aspersions cast against a good and holy prayer effort is just wrong on so many levels. I need to recall and heed St. John Cantius' excellent advice at times like this.
My 2 cents.....at least in Canada I don't see what this group fills that isn't already in place. My church in a quite small city has had 24/365 adoration for 13 years. There are men's groups and church groups in place already. Cardinal burke seems like a good man. The only vibe, right or wrong is its seems heavily focused on the group itself and personal salvation and less on serving others. Could be wrong. Where is the love was a feeling I was getting. not judging the group or burke just a vibe I got from it.
