Cardinal Burke on the State of the Church

Discussion in 'Video Blogs' started by padraig, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    Right, Vigano has quickly become quite a bit of a trumpet. Really they both have. Careful if not certainly watchful, knowing we are all praying for them.
    padraig likes this.
  2. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Thank you, Padraig!
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  3. Mario

    Mario Powers


    I have no idea of your age, but I as a boy grew up in a Catholic Church where pomp and pageantry was common especially in regard to the Holy Mass. Such pomp was to point to the King of Kings into whose presence we were entering. We are currently so dummied-down liturgically that I can understand your abhorrence. It might be good for us to recall the vision which Isaiah had when the Lord called him to be his prophet:

    Isaiah 6:1 In the year that King Uzzi'ah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple. 2 Above him stood the seraphim; each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory." 4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. 5 And I said: "Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!" 6 Then flew one of the seraphim to me, having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 And he touched my mouth, and said: "Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin forgiven." 8 And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I! Send me."
  4. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Cardinal Burke is something of a Saint , I think. I am rather uncertain about Archbishop Vigano. I wouldn't swallow everything he says.
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  5. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    I am puzzled about your distrust of Abp Vigano.

  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    There was an article in the Catholic Herald a couple of weeks ago concerning his recent statemnt. The author was by no means hostile to the Archbishop but he did point out some factual errors in his last statement.I will see if the article in available unline. It is worth reading.

    The author also throew no doubt on his previous statements, just I think the last one. It would be better to read it and judge for yourself. Itmade an impression on me.

    I wil lsee if I can find it.
    AED likes this.
  7. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Robert Moynihan has been meeting with Archbishop Vigano. He's going to publish an account of the conversations they had. He says the book will be out in a few weeks.

    Here's part of one of their conversations:
    What do you make of it?
    Joan J likes this.
  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

    As I say if you read the article judge for yourself.

    It is good not to get into an us and them kind of scenario and to retain objectivity.

    If I can't find it online I will look it up and provide bullet points. Recall Vigano was originally part of the original cover ups and decided to come clean. But still he was part of the original cover ups.
    AED likes this.
  9. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I trust Dr Moynihan like crazy. The truest of the true. Reading his output for years and years. Impeccable.
    AED likes this.
  10. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Ah here we are. I'm so glad I found this. Read this carefully and beware of knee jerk; it seems very convincing.

    Is Viganò overstating his case?
    Christopher Altieri
    18 July, 2019

    Last summer’s celebrity ecclesiastical whistleblower, Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, is back in the news. On July 3, LifeSite published excerpts omitted from a Washington Post report of a lengthy email interview with Viganò. A note had accompanied the Post’s story, informing readers: “Selected passages containing unverified allegations have been removed.”

    In the now published remarks, Viganò spoke about two cases, both of which had already appeared in media reports.

    The first case Viganò mentioned concerned the Preseminario Pio X, a minor seminary built inside Vatican City in the 1950s, with a bequest from the Diocese of Como, for the promotion of vocations to the priesthood. The students of the institution serve Masses in St Peter’s Basilica.

    In 2012, the then Pio X student Kamil Jarzembowski accused an older student of serial sexual assault against another boy who was also a seminarian and Jarzembowski’s roommate. Jarzembowski alleged that several of the assaults took place in his dorm room, with Jarzembowski himself present.

    Under the direction of Cardinal Angelo Comastri, the Vicar General for Vatican City, the superiors of the seminary (and eventually a bishop connected with the institution) looked into the situation. None of them found anything to substantiate the allegations. The Gendarmerie (the Vatican police) did not investigate the claims when they were first lodged. Jarzembowski left the seminary and the man he accused received Holy Orders.

    Cardinal Comastri told the Italian wire service ANSA that he ordered two internal investigations, which found nothing amiss. He said he eventually asked the Bishop of Como to look into the matter, since Como oversees the minor seminary through its Don Folci Association. More than six months later, Como’s Bishop Diego Coletti submitted a four-page report that also found nothing to substantiate the allegations. Comastri said that Coletti “proposed that the case be archived” but claims he did not follow that last proposal. He did say he ordered one boy to be sent away from the pro-seminary and back to Como. Comastri also had the pro-seminary’s senior staff replaced – “In order to be even more tranquil,” Comastri told ANSA, “so that there would be fresh air.”

    “Could I have done [anything] more?” Comastri went on to say.

    In November 2017, shortly after the news stories reached the public, the Vatican announced that it had reopened the case. “In view of the new elements that have recently emerged,” the Press Office said, “a new investigation is underway, to shed full light on what really happened.”

    In response to requests from the Catholic Herald, the Press Office of the Holy See confirmed that investigations are ongoing, but offered no further details.

    The seminary story pre-dated the major reforms to Vatican City’s criminal and criminal-procedural law, which took place earlier this year. That law makes all Vatican officials mandatory reporters of child abuse – phrased to encompass even suspicion of untoward activity of any kind – and requires that prosecutors investigate reports. If it is a mistake to forget about the reported scandal and move on, it is also an error to treat Viganò’s statements as fresh allegations.

    Archbishop Viganò’s second story concerned Archbishop Edgar Peña Parra, the current Substitute for General Affairs in the Vatican Secretariat of State. The Sostituto, as this post is known, is a very significant one in the Curia, but not the “number three spot” in the curial pecking order, as is sometimes claimed. Rather, it is comparable to a Chief of Staff. Viganò claimed that Pope Francis had promoted Peña notwithstanding serious questions regarding his past. Viganò made a particularly grave allegation related to an incident in Venezuela in 1992, which he said Vatican officials have known about since 2002. Like the Washington Post, the Herald was unable to verify the claim.

    Archbishop Viganò, however, did not simply invite journalists to take a closer look at the two cases. He adduced them in illustration of a net judgment: “Not only is Pope Francis doing close to nothing to punish those who have committed abuse, he is doing absolutely nothing to expose and bring to justice those who have, for decades, facilitated and covered up the abusers.”

    Those last two assertions are a serious overstatement.
    In addition to the aforementioned new law for Vatican City, Pope Francis has punished abusers, including a pair of notorious Chilean bishops and the disgraced former cardinal, Ted McCarrick. Even if, overall, his response has been inadequate, Francis has not done “absolutely nothing” to expose the rot.

    Viganò’s first foray into the public conversation over the leadership crisis besetting the Church was far from perfect. That first letter did, however, also offer a series of allegations that were new to the public, very serious and in principle verifiable. In point of fact, the bones of those allegations as they regarded the protection of Ted McCarrick and the knowledge of his character and proclivities received confirmation in later reporting.

    It’s hard to know what to make of these latest allegations, however. Over the past year, Archbishop Viganò has often been his own worst enemy. The statements of his which LifeSite published after the Washington Post refused to run them are further confirmation not only of his willingness to be unpopular, but also of his capacity for enmity, even as they offer precious little in advancement of the cause he claims to serve.
  11. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    I sang this as a choral piece for the first time in choir this year. LOVE IT!!
  12. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Yes, Dr. Moynihan comes across as genuine and not easily influenced by others. I rate him a lot higher than Christopher Altieri.

    Evidently, Archbishop Vigano trusts Dr. Moynihan and there seems to be mutual respect there. Moynihan's book about their conversations should be worth reading.

    Reams have been written about the scandals with all sorts of solutions being proposed.

    Here's some of the conversation between Dr. Moynihan and Apb. Vigano:

    “Some aspects of how to face this crisis have been explored by various bishops’ conferences, and at various meetings like the one at the Vatican in February, but the deep spiritual roots seem not to have been touched.

    “Something is still missing.

    “And that is what I find in this book.”

    “And what is that?” I asked.

    Vigano picks up the book to find a certain passage.

    “The monk author,” Vigano replied, “suggesting that the words he writes are the very words of Jesus to him during his time of prayer, says to us:

    “‘The solution to the hardships and trials of priests, the answer to the problems that beset so many of them, causing them to fall into patterns of sin, is the friendship that I offer them.

    “‘The Holy Spirit is poured out on every priest on the day of his ordination, and in that outpouring is given a marvelous capacity to live in My friendship and in the intimacy of My most Holy Mother.’ (p. 17)

    “But then,” Vigano continued, “the author adds:

    “‘So few of My priests accept this gift and use this capacity for holiness that I bestow upon them.’

    “And then the author writes, speaking now in the words of the Blessed Mother, Mary:

    “‘I am for all my priest sons the Gate of Heaven.

    “‘If any priest would ascend, even in this earthly life, into the glory of the heavenly liturgy ceaselessly celebrated by my Son before the Father’s Face, he need only approach me.

    “‘I will open the way into the mysteries of heaven for him.

    “‘I will teach him the reverence, the silence, the profound adoration that befits one called to serve at the altars of my Son and in His place.'” (p. 17)

    Apb. Vigano goes on to talk about us all needing to cleanse ourselves from evil by growing closer to Jesus.

    Many of us are expecting a chastisement from Heaven and wondering why it hasn't happened yet. Dr. Moynihan asks the Archbishop whether he is saying that God is about to chastise the Church as Niniveh was threatened with destruction or whether he believes we still have a chance of renewal through pray and spirituality. Archbishop Vigano's response:

    “The two possibilities you offer are not mutually exclusive,” the archbishop said. “There may be both a chastisement, which will shake and diminish the Church, and also a reform and renewal of the Church, making her more resplendent in holiness. Both are possible. The Lord is not denying grace of conversion to anyone. Furthermore, it is really the deep desire of His heart, to ask for conversion and to have us accept His love for us.”

    Read the conversation here:

    My impression of Apb. Vigano is that he acknowledges that much has gone wrong in the governance of the Church; that many mistakes were made; and that as a well connected member of the hierarchy he has to take his share of responsibility for what went wrong but that he believes it's time for everyone to 'fess up and stop sweeping the dirt under the rug. That he gets a few things wrong or overstates some events while understating others doesn't make him a liar and it doesn't disprove his entire testimony. Claims that he is making it all up out of revenge for Pope Francis are simply ludicrous and cause me to question the motives, intelligence or, indeed, integrity of people making that allegation.
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  13. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Totally agree. Thank you, Dolours.
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  14. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Lynnfiat deserves the thanks. It was she who posted the link to Dr. Moynihan's website on the thread about In Sine Jesu. There was a link on the bottom of the page to Dr. Moynihan's conversations with the Archbishop. The book Archbishop Vigano "picks up" in the piece I quoted above is In Sine Jesu.
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  15. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Thank you, Lynne.
    gracia likes this.
  16. gracia

    gracia Archangels

    Burke is very kind, and patient, I think. He knows a lot, but doesn't say much. That those closest to the Pope and most apparently faithful, wise, and orthodox are sticking with him, and are continuing along as though he were or is truly the Pope is the best reason, for me, to assume that while Francis may have problems, he is still the reigning Pontiff.
    Carol55 and padraig like this.
  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes it is up to the Bishops to act if they think otherwise. Anyway as far as I know for any Catholic to suggest otherwise incurs automatic excommunication as far as I know.

    I hear Netflix might be mounting a film about Pope Benedict , Pope Francis and the current Church crisis which sounds very interesting. It suggests that there is considerable enmity there. I must look and see....
    gracia likes this.
  18. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Ahh this is the film here, 'Pope Francis a Man of his Word'. Netflix hasn't got it on here yet..but maybe in the States?

    Seems interesting..oh from the trailer it seems like a Liberal snow job.

    Never mind.

    gracia likes this.
  19. gracia

    gracia Archangels

    Yeah, that would not surprise me. But if there is enmity, Benedict has been extremely polite and kind about it. Very, very quiet.

    I did used to doubt things, honestly. But until and unless anyone officially says otherwise, Francis is the Pope. That seems reasonable.
    padraig likes this.
  20. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I am so glad I am not a Bishop or Cardinal at this present time; they have to answer to God for what they do or do not do at this present time. All we are asked to do is pray really. How hard is that?
    A Bishop has to be something of a Roaring Lion to get things done, the way things are. I heard last night my won Bishop has spent 3.5 million pounds (that about 4.25 mill US Dollars ) refurbishing his mansion , just up the road from where I live. So I suppose he'll not be doing too much roaring any time soon as he'll be soaking in his new Jacuzzi.
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