Burke Calls for Consecration of Russia to Immaculate Heart of Mary

Yes I am glad I am not a young person growing up today.

 

A. This statement by Sor Lucia contradicts the purported content of the tv interview with Lucia in 1998 where she says that Fatima prophecy does not concern the end of times and it is not in Scriptures.

Published by Francois de Marie des Agnes (Fatima Joie Intime Événement Mondial, 1991):

Lucia: "It is all in the gospels and the apocalypse. Read them."

Interview between Sor Lucia and Frere Michel (All the Truth about Fatima, 1989):

Frere Michel: "Lucia said it is in the chapters VIII and XIII of the apocalypse"

This has been confirmed by Cardinal Ratzinger in 1984 interview with Vittorio Messori [after he had read the Third Secret], and confirmed by his own interpretation of the 3rd secret published in 2000 - he has stated that the Fatima messages concern the following: "The dangers threatening the faith," "the importance of the last times" and the fact that the prophecies "contained in this Third Secret correspond to what has been announced in Scripture." (Jesus magazine, Nov. 1984, p.79)


B. Also another interesting fact about the consecration of Russia:

- Interview to Sor Lucia (journal Il Sole di Fatima, september 1985), answer to question about the 1984 consecration [my translation]:

Lucia: "All the bishops did not participate and the name of Russia was not mentioned"
Interviewer: "So the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady?"
Lucia: "No. Many bishops gave no importance to the [1984] act.

- father Lenton, who sidded with the Vatican on asserting the consecration of 1984 was valid, said in 1986: " Lucia has remained unsatisfied, and seems to think that the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady."

- Cardinal Meyer of Chicago, 25 octobre 1987, speech to catholic politicians and leaders said that the consecration of Russia had not been completed as requested by Our Lady. Cardinal Stickler, Head of the Vatican Archives and Library, stated the same on 26 november 1987.

C. To this day we only have confirmation from Cardinal Bertone and Cardinal Sodano, that the 1984 consecration was "accepted by heaven" [whatever that means] according to a supposed letter that Sor Lucia sent to the Pope in 1989, which was never published (and will never be according to Fr. Amorth...). Yet we have no public statement from any pope that the consecration of Russia has been done according to what our lady requested.

D. There are not just one or two letters, but over a dozen letters and public statements and interviews from sor Lucia prior 1984 where she insists the consecration had to be of Russia and with all the bishops in the world.

E. Lucia stated that Pius XII consecration of 1942 was accepted by heaven and it will bring about the end of WWII, but she insisted that a concecration mentioning Fatima with all the bishops of the wold was still needed to bring about the conversion of Russia. Pius XII then published a letter in 1952, Sacro Vergente Anno, as a sort of appendix to the 1942 consecration which mentions the "peoples of Russia" - Lucia said it still did not meet the requirements because it did not mention just Russia as nation and was not done in a solemn ceremony with the all the bishops of the world. So after 1952 she exhort pope Pius XII, John XXIII, up to Paul VI and John Paul II, to consecrate Russia.

F. 12 may 1982 (one day before the 13 may 1982 consecration), John Paul II publicly meets with Lucia and she gives him a written witness of Our Lady's request to consecrate Russia. One week after, Osservatore Romano, 19 may 1982, John Paul II states: "I have done what was possible within the circumstances."

G. 19 march 1983, the pope send the Apostolic Nuncio Archbishop Portulaghi and FatherCoelho to meet Sor Lucia. The Nuncio reported the following statement from sor Lucia : "In the act of 13 may 1982 Russia did not seem to be the object of the consecration, and the bishops did not organize in their dioceses a public and solemn ceremony of reparation and consecration of Russia. Pope John Paul II has only renovated the consecration done by Pius XII in 1942. From this consecration we can expect some benefits but no the conversion of Russia. The consecration of Russia has not yet been done as Our Lady requested."

H. The 1984 was the same as the 1982. It would have been different if the John Paul II had sticked to its script, which mentioned Russia by name. We know today by Cardinal Cordes that John Paul II regreted non mentioning Russia but that he thought he did what was possible within the circumstances, as in 1982.

I. John Paul II never made a public statement later in his life about the consecration. We know that in 2004 JPII he send a fragment of the tumb of St Peter to Fatima, which is place in the Holy Trinity Basilica as the 'corner stone' with a note of the bishop of Leiria.

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Sor Lucia never literaly said that Russia had to be mentioned by name. However, everytime the popes consecrated Russia, whithout mentioning Russia by name and mentioning the "world" or "those regions of the world" instead, she always came back insiting they do a solemn and public consecration of Russia. I think it is remarkable that even Pius XII letter of 1952 which mentions "the peoples of Russia" did not satisfied Lucia because it was just am apostolic letter, did not refer to Russia as a nation and the bishops did not participate.

Finally, Lucia has never publicly mentioned that the consecration was "accepted by heaven" - this is a statement from Cardinal Bertone and Sodano in 2000, this are words that they claim she said. And even if the words are true, they are misleading because she stated the same about the 1942 consecration, yet she also continued to ask that another consecration of Russia be done. So a consecration accepted by heaven does not necessarily mean it has been done as Our Lady requested. Indeed, every single consecration since 1942 is certainly been accepted by heaven, including pope Francis one in 2013.

So, conspiracy theories aside, it is simply possible Lucia was asked by the Vatican to obey, accept and trust, agaisnt her own opinion, that the 1984 consecration was ok because of the difficult circumstances. This may have been confirmed by the collapse of communism.

However today, with the rise of war and violence we have seen in the last 25 years, and the contradictory signs send by Russia (conversion on one side and violent foreign and domestic policy on the other), we have reason to believe and ask that a final consecration of Russia be done.

 

Mario could be describing my family. Children AND husband. All gone from the Church. I have friends who have one or two who remain committed but I see so much rebellion too anger at feeling cheated or deceived by the way they were brought up. This culture is slow poison for children. Simple as that. And for parents stay in deep prayer day in and day out. Storm heaven. I fell asleep at the wheel one or two times over the years and blame myself bitterly for that. Thanks be to God that He heard our prayers. He has given us the Immaculate Heart. She is the one who will crush the serpent in our families.

 

The worst aspect of growing up in today's world is lack of knowledge of the faith. When God's arm does come down upon this world, practically no youth and young adults will be able to make any sense of it. This lack of knowledge will be an added scourge to the happenings in the world.

 

Jarg, you don't quote where all this post comes from. It seems a hotch potch of different quotes from different places. However, it includes a quote from 'an interview between Sister Lucia and Frere Michel which appears, at first sight to contradict Sister Lucia's letter of 1989. Frere Michel himself is a reliable source but I wonder where this interview has come from?

 

Sure, I wrote the source in the text in parenthesis. But here it is more precisely:

Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite (1990). The Whole Truth About Fatima, Volume III. Buffalo, New York CityA. p. 533.

And sor Lucia's critical answer in the statement of the Nuncio from 1983 is reported within an article by Father Pierre Caillon of Centre Saint Jean 61500 Sees, (Orne) France. This article was published by the monthly periodical Fidelite Catholique, B.P. 217-56402. Auray Cedex, France. It has also been reported in other publications in Spain and Italy.

Regards the 1942 consecration's acceptance from heaven even though it was incomplete, El secreto mejor guardado the Fatima, Jose Maria Zavala (2017). In this case the source is a letter from Sor Lucia solemnly read to the public on 20 april 1943 by all the bishops of Portugal at the sanctuary of Fatima, where they met for a retreat : " Our Lord has shown me his complaisance with this act done by the Holy Father and his bishops, though incomplete according to his will. As a reward, he promises to end the World War promptly; the conversion of Russia for later on." [my translation]

 

Another problem is that we are dealing again with Carlos Evaristo.
He had a 2 hr interview with Sr Lucia the year before this video interview.....

The Original Pamphlet
On October 11, 1992, Carlos Evaristo emerged from the famous convent in Coimbra, Portugal, to make an amazing claim: that he had just spent two hours interviewing Sister Lucy, and that during this “interview” she had contradicted all of her public and private statements over the past 75 years concerning the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the conversion of Russia, and the Third Secret of Fatima.

According to Evaristo, the “new” Sister Lucy, “contrary to everything she had said in some 75 years worth of prior correspondence, conversations and published remarks, was now saying that Russia had been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (in 1984), that Russia is “converting”, that “conversion” does not mean embracing the Catholic faith, and that the Third Secret of Fatima was not meant to be revealed to the faithful in 1960.

Evaristo would soon publish this first “interview” in the form of a crudely produced pamphlet entitled Two Hours with Sister Lucy. The credibility of the pamphlet was immediately cast into doubt by a manifestly absurd “detail” with which Evaristo embellished his account:

“Carlos Evaristo, who was sitting closest to Sister Lucy and directly in front, held Sister Lucy's hands for most of the two hour interview.”(1)
Sister Lucy is a cloistered nun who is not even permitted to see her blood relatives alone. The claim that she held hands for two hours with a strange man she had never met before was laughable on its face and impossible to believe.

Equally impossible to believe was the “interview” as a whole. In fact, it was so unbelievable that the only other Portuguese-speaking witness to Evaristo’s alleged encounter with “Sister Lucy”, Father Francisco Pacheco (who is a lawyer as well as a priest), publicly disavowed the pamphlet in its entirety:

“I was the official translator of this meeting, which lasted two hours. I categorically affirm that the booklet entitled Two Hours with Sister Lucy published by Carlos Evaristo contains lies and half-truths and is not to be believed. When I was first shown a copy in January 1993, I immediately contacted Carlos Evaristo and I personally told him not to publish this booklet because of the gross lies that he had put in it ... I trust that this will end the confusion caused by Carlos Evaristo and his notorious pamphlet.”(2)
Besides Father Pacheco, two other witnesses were present during the alleged 1992 “interview”, but neither of them speaks Portuguese. Anthony Cardinal Padiyara and Bishop Francis Michaelappa, both from India, were in Fatima to attend a Marian conference at the invitation of Father Nicholas Gruner’s Fatima apostolate, and they went along with Evaristo and Father Pacheco to the convent at Coimbra. Afterwards, Cardinal Padiyara would only attest that he had been present during the “interview”, which was conducted entirely in a language he did not understand. As for Bishop Michaelappa, he not only refused to vouch for the authenticity of the “interview”, but joined Father Pacheco in demanding that Evaristo not publish it.

Why did Father Pacheco publicly repudiate Two Hours with Sister Lucy, and why did both he and Bishop Michaelappa demand that it not be published by Evaristo? The answer was supplied by Evaristo himself: In a fax transmission to Coralie Graham, editor of The Fatima Crusader, Evaristo admitted that the statements he had attributed to “Sister Lucy” contain:

“... contradictory and unlogical (sic) things which at times seem almost craziness.”(3) (See fig. 1.)
In the same fax Evaristo further admits: “The dialogue was not recorded at the time. No notes were taken.”(4) (See fig. 2.) As if to demolish any remaining vestige of credibility in the “interview”, Evaristo even concedes that because his memory is unreliable, the “transcript” of the “interview” did not reflect his own memory but was “reconstructed”(!) from the memory of others:

“Although I may have a bad memory this reconstruction of what was said was not largely made by me. I only typed it.”(5) (See fig. 3.)
This is a devastating admission, because if the “transcript” was not based on Evaristo’s own memory of what “Sister Lucy” allegedly said, and if Father Pacheco, the only other Portuguese-speaking witness, repudiated the “transcript” because it “contains lies and half-truths and is not to be believed”, then the only possible sources for the “transcript” are Cardinal Padiyara and Bishop Michaelappa — neither of whom speaks a word of Portuguese.

Yet, nowhere in Two Hours with Sister Lucy is the public ever told that the “transcript” of the “interview” with Sister Lucy is not really a transcript at all, but a “reconstruction” from the memories of people who could not even speak the interviewee’s language!

 

Ahhh,
Thank you. I read about the pamphlet and all of that a while back but I wasn't connecting the dots and realizing that was from Evaristo.

 

I have the 3 Volumes by Frere Michel of The Whole Truth About Fatima but can find no mention of an interview between Frere Michel and Sister Lucia. Nor can I find any reference on the internet.

All the other references in your original article are irrelevant as they refer to comments by Sister Lucia before the 1984 Consecration.

 

Mac's post is just a quote from Chris Ferrara's website that pushes false and misleading information about Carlos Evaristo. They question whether he ever had an interview with Sister Lucia but you can see in the Kronzer video that he has a good and close relationship with the nun.

You have your choice, follow the Chris Ferrara/Fr Gruner line or follow the truth. I would actually like to read the Carlos Evaristo pamphlet in English but haven't been able to locate it anywhere. Mr Evaristo seems a totally reliable witness.

 

Cardinal Ratzinger said in the same interview that the Secret also refers to “the importance of the Novissimi [the Last Times / the Last Things]” and that “If it is not made public, at least for the time being, it is in order to prevent religious prophecy from being mistaken for a quest for the sensational…” The Cardinal further revealed that “the things contained in this ‘Third Secret’ correspond to what has been announced in Scripture and has been said again and again in many other Marian apparitions, first of all that of Fatima…”

 

I hope God will make allowances, these are very,very difficult times indeed.

 

Praetorian,
I think this video in question was kept hidden due to evil intent by a person or persons unknown, but now we have this account and I suspect it could easily be translated today if people are presuming that the translation is a problem. I also belive we are very lucky and I praise God that we now have this video record which also validates the following, which we have from Our Church Fathers............

Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished (“Sim, està feita, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, desde o dia 25 de Março de 1984”: “Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984”: Letter of 8 November 1989).

And also............

1) the Holy Father's letter of 19 April 2000 to Sister Lucia;
2) an account of the conversation of 27 April 2000 with Sister Lucia;
3) the statement which the Holy Father appointed Cardinal Angelo Sodano, Secretary of State, to read on 13 May 2000;
4) the theological commentary by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.



Pope John Paul II, on 25th March 1984 in Saint Peter's Square, while recalling the fiat uttered by Mary at the Annunciation, the Holy Father, in spiritual union with the Bishops of the world, who had been “convoked” beforehand, entrusted all men and women and all peoples to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

The Holy Father was unable to use the word Russia because of diplomatic advice and cautions but He found a way around this!

The Holy Father implored heaven to accept this consecration as a consecration of Russia!, Pope John Paul II even deviated from the text of the consecration to add..........

In a special way we entrust and consecrate to you those individuals and nations which particularly need to be thus entrusted and consecrated!!!

Also the text of the consecration itself was imbued with references to Russia!

Mother of the Church! Enlighten the People of God along the paths of faith, hope, and love! Enlighten especially the peoples whose consecration and entrustment by us you are awaiting! Help us to live in the truth of the consecration of Christ for the entire human family of the modern world.

“Mother of all individuals and peoples, you know all their sufferings and hopes. In your motherly heart you feel all the struggles between good and evil, between light and darkness, that convulse the world: accept the plea which we make in the Holy Spirit directly to your heart, and embrace with the love of the Mother and Handmaid of the Lord those who most await this embrace, and also those whose act of entrustment you too await in a particular way!!! Take under your motherly protection the whole human family, which with affectionate love we entrust to you, O Mother. May there dawn for everyone the time of peace and freedom, the time of truth, of justice and of hope”

“O Mother of all men and women, and of all peoples, you who know all their sufferings and their hopes, you who have a mother's awareness of all the struggles between good and evil, between light and darkness, which afflict the modern world, accept the cry which we, moved by the Holy Spirit, address directly to your Heart. Embrace with the love of the Mother and Handmaid of the Lord, this human world of ours, which we entrust and consecrate to you, for we are full of concern for the earthly and eternal destiny of individuals and peoples!

 

I don't see these necessarily as mutually exclusive.

I am totally willing to go either way on this. I am honestly looking for the truth, no matter what it is, in every subject area.
There are large amounts of information such as Jarg posted earlier to the effect that Sister Lucy has said on many occasions that the consecration had to be done a certain way. Even after the 1984 consecration. However that video you found clips of is potent. I just wish we could locate more of it.

 

Thank you Josephite.

I want nothing more than to believe the consecration was done properly. There seems to be a lot of loose ends though. More than loose ends actually, the whole thing seems frayed. Generally I accept the video was subtitled properly enough, though it would be nice to have verification from someone who speaks Portuguese or Spanish, I am not sure what language they were speaking.

The main problem for me is that it goes against everything Sister Lucy had been saying her whole life. So as you can see it will take a little more than a few stray clips to allow me to totally discard everything else she told us. That being said, the video is an important piece of information and I had never seen it before, though I had seen it referenced in writing.

I just don't know at this point. In any case I don't think there is any harm in a consecration being done with Russia proper being named and that is what I hope for.

 

The Sol di Fatima newspaper interview question is from after 1986, so it is relevant. Statements prior to 84 are also certainly relevant to know what she thought of each of the consecrations since 1942, because those consecrations were pretty much the same in their wording and intentionality as the 1984 one.

The Frere Michel mention of the apocalypse it is possible it was not an interview (that is not the point) but just a statement from a conversation between the nun and Frere Michel, but it is certain he reports it in his book as it is referenced in this sources at least:

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_Fátima ( note 34)

2. Jose Maria Zavala's recent book on Fatima, referenced several times.

3. Antonio Socci's book on Fatima

4. And this book which is a summary of Frere Michel's three volumes https://www.amazon.fr/FATIMA-JOIE-INTIME-EVENEMENT-MONDIAL-FRANCOIS/dp/B0045C0DAG

5. Marco Tossati's, the most respected and senior of all vaticanists, in his new book on Fatima

Cardinal Ratzinger also says the third secret is in the scriptures. That is enough confirmation to contradict the video, which is by no means from a vetted source, and it is NOT mentioned by any serious vaticanist expert on the matter of Fatima including Cardenal Bertone, Tossati's, Socci, Saverio Gaeta, Zavala's etc.

Do you know of any widely recognized reliable Fatima expert that has mentioned that tv interview? Do you seriously think that no serious vaticanists would have mentioned it if they had been able to? Or that they simply didn't know about it?

If no then you will have to make your own research, request the original tape from the Portuguese tv channel that publishes it, test it in a lab to see if it was altered and then translate it. Good luck but please don't base sth so critical on a tv source that is not mentioned in any Fatima book worth reading.

 

Actually the larger Krozner video has disappeared as well.

 

My responses on this matter were related only to the possible claim that Sister Lucia, after the 1984 Consecration, stated it was not done. I am not responding in any way to other matters involving the apocalypse or third secret. It is now clear there is no evidence Sister Lucia made any statement on the Consecration after 1984 that contradicts her letter of 1989.

Regarding the TV video of Sister Lucia speaking about the Consecration as part of the Krozner video, it is what it is. For me there is no need to search for problems with it.

And yes, as Mac points out, Mr Krozner and friends have now removed the video from YouTube. This doesn't surprise me. I doubt he has any interest in Fatima, only in 'unmasking' religious 'cults' that he doesn't approve of.

 

I'm forgetting your "Interview to Sor Lucia (journal Il Sole di Fatima, september 1985), answer to question about the 1984 consecration [my translation]:"

I seem to have encountered this before but if my memory is correct, the actual interview (as distinct from when it was published) took place before the 1984 Consecration. I can find no reference to it (in any language) on the internet. If anyone can provide a reference it would be appreciated.

 

The actual interview caused a controversy at the time, so it must have been from after may 1984. It even has an entry in wikipedia commenting on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_de_Fátima