BREAKING: Father Frank Pavone dismissed from priesthood

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by BrianK, Dec 18, 2022.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    From the other Pavone thread:

    The Frank Pavone story is not about abortion

    Kathryn Jean Lopez
    December 19, 2022



    [​IMG]
    Father Frank Pavone, national director of Priests for Life, speaks in front of the U.S. Supreme Court in Washington Oct. 1, 2019, after a petition with more than 250,000 signatures calling for Roe v. Wade to be overturned was presented to the court. (CNS photo/Tyler Orsburn)

    [​IMG]Please: Be careful — prayerful — about how you react to the news about Father Frank Pavone now becoming Mr. Frank Pavone by order of the Vatican. Try not to see it through a political lens. Step away of any opinions you may have of the Roman pontiff. Know that abortion is the human-rights issue of our time. The priest who ran Priests for Life is still capable of creating an untenable circumstance for himself to continue as a priest.

    My first reaction was shock on Saturday night as the news broke. I knew he was in trouble, but I didn’t know he was in “Mr. Pavone” kind of trouble. I knew there were things going on in Rome, but, again, you pray that someone who has his heart in the right place would find someone who would help navigate the rough waters, some of which he got himself into.

    Because he had become so focused on political advocacy, he had lost some of the foundation of his vocation. A diocesan priest is under obedience to his bishop. Every priest is in a similar situation. A religious priest is under obedience of a religious superior. But from every observation, Pavone did not want to be under obedience of a diocesan bishop.

    You can just go through some of his Twitter files to find examples of Pavone not being pastoral but being a political activist. There was the blasphemy of using an aborted baby as a prop on what was clearly an altar, even if it wasn’t a consecrated one, as Pavone has contended.

    My second reaction is that, even knowing Pavone was in trouble, of course Catholics in America were going to see this as an attack on Pavone for being unapologetically pro-life. I was at a not-small dinner this fall as he was heralded on screen as being one of the major figures who contributed to the ending of Roe v. Wade. I cringed — as he sat next to me, as it happens. When a priest becomes a celebrity, he needs a strong support system of people who help keep him humble. I have been friendly with Pavone over the years, and I have no knowledge of any spiritual advisers, except Cardinal John O’Connor, but that was long ago now, in Pavone’s early years as a seminarian and priest. Especially when working in the public eye, and on issues as contentious and evil as abortion, we need people who want us to get ourselves and others into heaven, not get the next speaking gig, or raise the next million dollars. Again, I have no insider knowledge on this in particular, but I ran into him frequently over the years, and it was clear some people adored him.

    And the combination of people adoring you and you and others being convinced you are a victim of persecution can be a dangerous thing. Yes, Christians are often persecuted. It can come with the territory. Often, if you do the right thing, the obstacles are myriad, and enemies arise. But please don’t see this, though, through a lens of right vs. left, of Vatican vs. American Catholics. Bishops in the United States had problems with him. I know one who truly didn’t want to have to see him in trouble. But he had gone rogue.

    I’ve seen many, some quite imprudently, compare Pavone’s situation to Jesuit Father James Martin. The comparison made is that the Vatican salutes Father Martin for talking about LGBT issues but punishes Pavone for advocating on behalf of the unborn. It’s not that simple. For one, Father Martin is presumably operating with the permission of his religious superior. And the Vatican bureaucracies do not see things as black and white as we might. At the same time, Frank Pavone was not punished because he played a role in ending Roe. He got himself in trouble for not being transparent and wanting to be an independent actor — that’s not the priesthood — and doing some of it quite publicly.

    This story is tragic. It didn’t have to end this way. But in his immediate response to the news, Pavone described the priesthood as a “profession” and compared himself to the “aborted” — being thrown away and cancelled.

    Many great saints who suffered actual persecution kept their eyes on Christ and the obedience to which they had submitted themselves. By all indications, Pavone lost sight of this. He did many a beautiful thing over the years — including, by her testimony, helping bring former Planned Parenthood director Abby Johnson into the Church. But he also forgot who he was. And other people with all the best intentions, in their zeal to protect the unborn and women from abortion, didn’t help things.

    Please pray for Frank Pavone, that he can do God’s will in this new state in life, and not sow more discord. We all must pray for one another more — enemies and friends. There’s always more going on than we see. And it’s about heaven. Jesus is our only Savior. No one priest or individual or group is evergoing to do better. Submit ourselves to him anew.
     
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  2. garabandal

    garabandal Powers


    'For one, Father Martin is presumably operating with the permission of his religious superior.'

    For me this was the line that jumped out of this article - that this author even penned this line is outrageous that somehow Martin is justified because he gets a free pass because his superior allows him to carry on with his wicked ways. He is a heretic and a devious priest, simple. One can judge a tree by its rotten fruit. His superior is accountable because he allows it. The man at the top is accountable because he allows it and even justifies it.

    I wish John the Baptist were around today to have a 'word' with Fr Martin, & Father Martin's superior & the man at the top Pope Francis.

    Garbabandal 18 June 1965
    Many cardinals, many bishops, and many priests are on the path of perdition and they take many souls with them.

     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2022
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  3. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

    It is a hard part of caring so much about a good cause--whether it be pro-life issues, the conversion of one's family members, etc--to remember that it's not US doing good, it's GOD doing good through us IF He so chooses. Like St. Therese's image of the toy ball either played with by Christ or tossed into a corner unused for a while...we must be content with God's will and only wish to do what He asks, because He asks it. Individually, on our own, we are so unimportant. But we forget, and we think we carry so much on our shoulders. That is why obedience is SO helpful and important. Sometimes obedience alone is what protects our humility. No cause is more important than holy obedience.
     
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  4. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    St Padre Pio is surely the example that priests must follow in this regard.
     
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  5. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Well, the author was able to pick a well-known example to illustrate her point.
    I’m seeing it through the eyes of a journalist.
    It’s also a perfect example of the message of Our Lady at Garabandal.
     
    Sam likes this.
  6. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

  7. Sunnyveil

    Sunnyveil Archangels

    I strongly disagree with your comments on priests and politics.

    Bishops and priests CAN and SHOULD and DON'T talk about politics enough. In fact most homilies are drivel given the highly politicized issues of the day that are destroying our culture and Church. You hardly hear a word.

    This is the kind of thinking that will ensure the destruction of the Church and is a fine example of how the Church is currently operating. Bishops aren't strongly fighting the huge evils in our own Church. They don't tell you that voting for Democrats because of their platform is a mortal sin. They didn't condemn the Pachamama plant on St. Peter's altar DURING the Mass. Heck those red hatted men processed her in on their shoulders. They never said Pope Francis was wrong for saying that people have a moral duty to get the death jab. How many millions of Catholics are already dead because of their cowardice? Who has heard these shepherds speak out against Catholic Charities, the biggest trafficker of illegals and sex slaves to the US ? But they'll go along with defrocking a priest for trying to fight the biggest battle of the day.

    I wonder what Mother Angelica would say about this disgusting but predictable decision? She'd probably say it's in keeping with how the bishops have behaved for many decades, so why would they stand up for a fellow priest now? They'll justify his defrocking, PRAY for him, and wish him well in his new state of life. So neat and tidy.
     
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  8. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    They’re not “my” comments. I simply reposted an article without comment.

    And I agree with what you say here.

    This is exactly why many Catholics are questioning a) whether Pope BXVI’s resignation was valid or possibly coerced, b) whether St. Gallen type activities and Bergoglio’s participation in them may have invalidated the conclave and c) whether Pope Francis, if a and b do not apply, has lost the papacy due to manifest grave obstinate heresy.

    If PF ain’t the pope, all this is moot. And more and more Catholics are quietly considering that possibility.
     
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  9. AED

    AED Powers

    You make a strong case. There are no heroes in this situation. Except maybe Bishop Strickland who spoke up unequivocally.
     
  10. Sunnyveil

    Sunnyveil Archangels

    I'm sorry, Brian -- I thought they were your comments. Next I thought, "Gosh, I haven't been on this forum much in the last year or so, and Brian has really changed his views."
     
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  11. padraig

    padraig Powers

  12. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    This is a valuable lesson.
     
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  13. AED

    AED Powers

    FrMark says it all. God bless him
     
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  14. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    Thanks for posting this @padraig. It’s nine hours old, so I think Fr. Mark had something specific on his mind in making these remarks.

    I really needed to hear this right now, as I’ve been questioning my own response to this situation and have been criticized for stating it over on Facebook, to the point I deleted my posts there regarding the situation.

    Not because they were unpopular, but because I was seriously second guessing my own impressions.
     
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  15. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Father Mark is such a joy to listen to. So young with all the enthusiasm of child let loose in a Toy Factory on Christmas Eve. He is a delight.
     
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  16. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Father Mark, like Jesus, makes that which appears complicated, simple. A sure sign of holiness:

    'Unless you become like children.....'
     
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  17. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

    Fr. Mark is great. His words about obedience echo very closely what I am currently reading (once again) 'The Way of Divine Love' which is about Josefa Menendez, the humble, uneducated little nun who was chosen to assist Jesus by her heroic sacrifices, to save souls at risk of damnation. Jesus would appear to her when she was undertaking her lowly domestic duties and she would say, 'But Lord, I am instructed to sweep these corridors' and He would say 'May I stay with you until you've finished and then may I talk to you?' And Josefa would rush off to enquire of her superiors how she should respond to His request. This happened on multiple occasions, happily her superiors became convinced of the reality of her apparitions but for a long time she was tortured about whether they were genuine and was deeply uncomfortable at the attention that they brought her.

    Sr. Josefa, pray for us and ours. (There are many stories about the speed and efficacy of her intercession)

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. AED

    AED Powers

    Fr Mark speaks the truth with love.
     
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  19. AED

    AED Powers

    I LOVE The Way of Divine Love.
    The value of obedience is very clear. There is so much wisdom and guidance in that wonderful book.
     
    Sam, josephite, Jo M and 3 others like this.
  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Thank you for this post.
     

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