Seagull, you fly across the horizon into the misty, morning sun. Nobody knows where you are going, and nobody knows where you're from...
'Love and do what you will', St Augustine on freedom of Spirit. Heaven is being made perfect in love. well worth listening too.
Do you really recommend Livingstone theology Padraig? If its this sign attacking the Church with the Crow[powers of darkness] Modern /liberal theology garbage?? Surely? And they worry as well that we have seen something like his strategy attempted before, when the church’s 1970s-era emphasis on social justice, liturgical improvisation and casual-cool style had disappointing results: not a rich engagement with modern culture but a surrender to that culture’s “Me Decade” manifestations — producing tacky liturgy, ugly churches, Jonathan Livingston Seagull theology and ultimately empty pews. http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.co.nz/2013/10/the-promise-and-peril-of-pope-francis.html
It's true it was off the period. I first read the book in a seminary when I was 19. It is funny going back to it and seeing it again. I thought it was the sum of all wisdom at the time, but now looking back at it down the years I start to see the flaws. For one thing it is so unsubtle. I fond it kinda bashes me over the head too much with its 'message.' But still some of the things in it continue to inspire but as you mention with a health warning. It was so nostalgic seeing it again. Nostalgic and kinda sad. I was never a happy teen and was in the process of loosing my Faith completely. Thank the good Lord I came out the other side through Our Lady's intervention, pure grace, many never come out. St Therese of Liseaux said I wise insightful thing about reading (and she died when she was only 26...such wisdom for one so young) ..she said she found herself reading less and less widely as the years went on eventually reading only the Bible and , 'The Imitation of Christ' . At the end she says it was only the Bible she read. I downloaded the Imitation during the week and read a little verse everyday after mass along with a chapter of the Bible and a bit from the Lives of the Saints on the saint of the day. The Imitation is so rich it can carry right through the day. In reading as in all things discretion and wisdom. Accepting that which is wise and disgarding the junk. Heb. 5:13-14 "For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of fall age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil," View attachment 1676
Lets get a grip people. Crows and gulls are predators, that's what they do. Shooing tame doves out a window into their well guarded territories is prob not the smartest of moves. Apparantly this yearly Jan "tradition" started relatively recently (2005) and there have been regular problems ever since.
I dont think Im losing my grip reading signs in these sort of events, but I cant prove it either. God knows well the world media caught and reported this ,and many of my worldly friends who have no interest in religious topics ask me , 'what does this mean?' Why was St Peters struck by lightning? Why are the Doves of peace under attack?
At the funeral Mass of Cardinal Eugenio Sales in Rio in 2012, a white dove entered the Cathedral and stayed perched on the coffin for a full hour. Cardinal Sales was among the strongest supporters of the Church's teachings on sexual matters among the South American hierarchy. This was generally taken as a good omen as to the Cardinal's spiritual fate and as approval of his stance. (And I would read it that way whatever the cynics might say). View attachment 1683
Mac, a guy by the name of Ockam who lived at the time of Aquinas can help you with this. He put into succint words a principle that has been well accepted by theologians and secular thinkers ever since. It goes by a number of names ranging from "Ockams Razor" to "the principle of parsimony." Simply stated he suggests that proud man's obsessive need for meaning in the face of a confusing and scary world can be held in check by refusing to multiply causes without need. In other words, the simplest, plainest explanation is 99.9% of the time going to be the correct one. Individual disappointment may vary. Thus Benjamin Franklin discovered the real meaning of lightning while the superstitious Vikings did not (Thor's wrathful bolts hurled at sinful mankind). In my country the Pacific Islanders tell their children that the rain is caused by Jesus/Mary weeping for the sins of men (that's cute). And when Freud's friends playfully asked him why he liked sucking on a cigar he grumpily replied there are times when a cigar is just a cigar. You ask why the Doves of Peace are under attack - despite the fact there is already a clear explanation that accords very well with the way the natural world works and has always worked. Namely, since 2005 those tame doves have always been in danger. They were also attacked in front of the crowd when JPII released them. Even the doves know this. Many times after release they quickly fly back into the room. All this is not new - though some papers like to try and sensationalise it by pretending it hasn't happened before. It looks like the papers have sucked you in - yet if you think about it, this is only possible if we have an excessive need to see superstitious meaning in the first place. Just as Ockam recognised 700 years ago. Let's not forget that spiritual people are suceptible to certain vices that less-sensitive persons are not. We have to keep a check on ourselves. There is such a thing as "spiritual greed" as well as material greed." That is, the excessive love of seeking the power of the supernatural world at work in every natural wonder or difficulty can also be due to a weakness of trust/faith that needs constant confirmations in nature. Praising God for his goodness in nature is very different. Ninety-nine times out of one hundred there is a perfectly natural explanation for the startling things that happen in our lives - though it may not always be found even if we look for it. Natural explanations should always be presumed first - if we even need to look for meaning. Sometime we will just never know why. Such things are not worth obsessing over. At Garabandal (quite apart from the miracles) Mary had the children do a lot of strange things. People wonder and wonder why and whether it detracts from the divine origin of the events there. Sometimes heaven seems to taunt even spiritual people with things they will never penetrate as a lesson in humility. It should make no diffwerence at all to persons of strong faith. So I personally believe a person of strong faith (not just materialists) will first look for natural causality - if a meaning needs to be searched for at all. Anything else is of the devil. For what its worth that is my take. In other words, a tame dove released by a Pope in front of a vast praying crowd...is still a dove subject to the natural order God instituted and to wantonly believe more without justification perhaps says more about our own personal needs/desires than God's.
It goes both ways BH.....and to wantonly NOT believe more without justification perhaps says more about our own personal needs/desires than God's.
MAC my contribution above was not intended as a free-floating philosophic discussion of principles which must pre-decide all possible scenarios. Obviously different actual examples are capable of different final conclusions because there will always be valid principles that may decide either way and in the end it is a prudential/practical judgement. But what I was doing was answering your own personal question wrt a very particular scenario that has very particular facts associated with it. It is my prudential judgement having done a bit of real-world detective work (that you seem to feel is not relevant to this case) that its business as usual, move on, nothing to see here. You asked, I answered. My conclusion was that your repeated "why", even after being delivered of the wider facts surrounding this incident, is not objectively reasonable. I further suggested your continued "why" could only seem reasonable to you if you were not interiorly aware of the typical sorts of interior causes I suggested above. If you think your own lights are stronger wrt "understanding" this incident and my lights are of little assistance in your growth in self-knowledge then my job is done - what more can one expect than that others reflect on our responses to their questions. If you have done that then all is well and all manner of things will be well.
BH said....You ask why the Doves of Peace are under attack - despite the fact there is already a clear explanation that accords very well with the way the natural world works and has always worked. This goes for so many signs and miracles .Explained away by those unwilling to accept that God has a hand in all things. When the' veil was rent' it was a 'Sign' the old covenant was broken. Yet no doubt those who were learned ,yet lacked any spiritual awareness would point out it was just the result of the earthquakes.
BH said...You asked, I answered. True indeed,thank you for your answer. BH said...in the end it is a prudential/practical judgement. Agreed,but lacking something.
Ultimately the author of Revelation used the image of the birds of prey to picture the defeat of evil before the reign of Christ (Revelation 19:17-21 ; compare Ezekiel 29:5 ; Ezekiel 32:4 ;Ezekiel 39:4 , Ezekiel 39:17-20 ) Perhaps the most important function of birds in the Bible is their symbolic or figurative role. The dove may symbolize innocence (Matthew 10:16 ) or God's activity in the world through His Spirit (Matthew 3:16 ). The eagle or vulture played a figurative or symbolic role in the writings of the prophets and the apocalyptists. The image of birds of prey is used in Revelation to picture the final defeat of evil.
I like what Jesus had to say about things like this: "And in the morning you say, ‘There will be bad weather today because the sky is cloudy.' You know how to make sense of the sky's appearance. But you are unable to recognize the signs that point to what the time is." Matt 16:3
Interesting to me at least , Richard Bach released part 4 of his seagull story March19 2013 ,one week after Pope Francis was elected . 44 years after publishing the original.
Does Pope Francis theology sound like the seagull? Seagull quotes...http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1743336-jonathan-livingston-seagull Future Pope Francis quotes...http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301525.htm: The future pope tells a story of flying kites in his neighborhood when he was a child. "There'd come the moment when the kite would begin making a 'figure 8' and begin falling. In order to keep that from happening, you mustn't pull the string. The kids who knew more than us would scream, 'Give it some slack, it's wobbling!'" "Flying a kite resembles the approach you need to take regarding a person's growth: sometimes you need to give them some slack because they are 'wavering.' In other words, it is necessary to give them time. We have to be able to set limits at the right moment, but other times we need to know how to look the other way and be like the father of the parable (the Prodigal Son) who lets his son move out and squander his fortune so that he learns from experience."
