I haven't read through this entire thread, but has anyone pointed out that St. Faustina's Diary was once condemned also? From a Msgr. Patrick Perez ( http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f072_DivMercy.htm) "Pius XII, then, placed this devotion, including the apparitions and the writings of Sr. Faustina on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum (Index of Prohibited Books). That list no longer exists, since it was formally abolished on June 14, 1966, by Paul VI. On the one hand, it is unfortunate that it no longer exists. But, on the other hand, if that list were to exist today it would be so vast that it would fill this room. Practically everything that is written today has something objectionable to the Catholic Faith. So, Pius XII put the writings of Sr. Faustina on the Index of Prohibited Books. That meant that he considered that their content would lead Catholics astray or in the wrong direction. Next, came other prohibitions made by Pope John XXIII. Twice in his pontificate, the Holy Office issued condemnations of the Divine Mercy writings." My spiritual director, a SOLT priest who began a huge lay program called the Disciples of Jesus and Mary that has spread all over the world, encouraged those of us willing to tackle the many volumes to prayerfully read it with the Holy Bible by our side. I love this book and will recommend it to everyone. I will also be totally obedient to the magisterium of the Church. Discern if it is to be included in your growth in spiritually. I admire Father Pacwa's devotion to Holy Scripture and history of the church but my union with God is catapulted to heaven when I read Poem. Just open it up to the part where Jesus is a young boy teaching the scholars in the Temple. It is brilliant! But, to each his own. Everyone's path to sainthood is different. God bless everyone on that path!
Well, I am going to move to where you are, Padraig, because I detest hot weather, and because we have intense, unrelenting heat and humidity here, life-threatening heat. Yes, the weather is very, very odd indeed. Praying for an early Autumn.
No djm, no one had. Praetorian stated: Honestly I cannot see why anyone would insist on reading something that was officially put on a list of condemned books by the Church. How very fortunate for the Church that St John Paul II chose to do just that with respect to St Faustina's writings! Always bear in mind that the books put on the index were put there for a multitude of reasons by individual clergy in the CDF, not by the Popes. Probably the best recommendation of the Poem books was Pope Pius XII: "Publish this work as is; he who reads will understand." even though, sadly, priests like Fr Pacwa continue to fight against it I've just found another interesting page about the work: http://www.drbo.org/valtorta.htm
I am no expert, not even close, in determining where these messages are coming from, any of them. I wish I could see how both St. Faustina and MV's book could both be from God. Someone help.
Maybe in Maria's Christ coming again is a physical coming and with the Illumination of Conscience this is not the case. I also think it the timing of the 2 apparitions, both from Jesus and how they seem so different.
Ok, you are referring to speculation on dates from St Faustina and Maria Valtorta's 'End of Times' book. I'm afraid I haven't been following that discussion. I wouldn't worry about dates if I were you. God always surprises and I'm sure we are all going to be surprised in how things develop in the years ahead.
It is not the dates but I think that the Illumination of Conscience would have been noted somewhere in MV's End Times book, is it there and I missed it?
It could just be that both go around the same time (for one expected reason or another) since one is benefitting the other.....and then the Church will be in darkness!
I had problems with understanding too. But I was only curious. Then I wanted to be a little voice, to claim truth. And I began to understand the words of Jesus and prophets. God is not happy when we are ONLY curious The warning and short period after is mentioned in MV books. More times. I said its name. FALL OF THE BABYLON. And also it is connected whit white horse . Another name is Triumph of New Jerusalem, Mary. Conversion of Israel. Palm Sunday of Church. Millenial Kingdom from prayer Pater noster, Eucharistic kingdom. Coming of King of Mercy - only spiritual and in Eucharist. Pray Credo now. What you say? I believe that Jesus will come as Judge in the day of final judgement. IF SOME CLAIMS OTHERS, HE COMES NOT FROM GOD
I assure you that nothing I do is out of idle curiosity. Can you suggest a particular page for me to read which seems to point to an illumination of conscience or at the very least explains what is meant in Revelation 7? If you have run out of patience I understand, no problem. Maybe God wanted to leave this chapter as a mystery.
Carol55, I have not reread MV's End of Times in years. Maybe someone else could answer this question for you. Makes me want to go through it again and find your conflict.
HH, What did I say? lol. Again, for me it the WCWTS sign that is making it seem like something "big" will happen soon but what that thing is IDK for certain. But we won't need to wait long. And yes of course I feel that the Garbandal seers have given us a lot of accurate information.
Maybe it is a simple as my post 274 states, Revelation 7 needed to remain a mystery. It could very well be the case.
I will answer you next week. Do catholic credo contradict with my answer? Is kingdom of Jesus from this world? When we say that we believe that he will come in the end of the world to judge and reign, we expect with Peter and John New Earth. Now after warning it will be shown, in short period, like on Mt. TABOR for the same reason. Both the kingdom and New Jerusalem (Mary during Miracle). It will be only invitation into New Earth. And therefore is very needed Antichrist as the trial. And then will folow Eternal Kingdom.
Someone awhile back in this thread (I don't recall now) mentioned about showing church approved about the event called the "Warning" or "Illumination". Well there are two such individuals. St. Edmund Campion who spoke of “a great day that would reveal all men’s consciences,” a coming “day of enlightenment”. He exclaimed it be a day in which God will supernaturally illuminate the conscience of every man, woman, and child on earth. Each person would momentarily see the state of their soul through God’s eyes and realize the truth of His existence. Servant of God Maria Esperanza also spoke of the event “The consciences of this beloved people must be violently shaken so that they may ‘put their house in order’… A great moment is approaching, a great day of light… it is the hour of decision for mankind.” —Ibid, P. 37 Maria was told by the Virgin that we are living the "hour of decision for humanity." The world will face a "very serious moment" soon. “A great moment is approaching," the Virgin told Esperanza, “A great day of light!" Maria Esperanza does not foresee the end of the world. She sees a coming purification. “The moment has arrived in which mankind must awaken”, says Esperanza, “we must awaken to the love of God. In the coming years a new light from heaven will illuminate hearts, but before it does there will be hardship”. She forsees war, societal problems, and natural disasters. But she also sees a cleansing that will restore humankind. The approval of the Church As part of his ongoing investigation, Bishop Pio Bello personally interviewed several hundred witnesses and took about 550 written statements, and some of the documents contained more than one signature, to the extent that at least a thousand people actually signed their names to the documents certifying their testimonies. During Bishop Pio Bello’s investigations he consulted with the then cardinal prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now the Pope), and also Pope John Paul II himself. After Bishop Pio Bello’s investigations were completed, he waited three years for further reflection and discernment, then he issued a pastoral letter on November 21, 1987 declaring that the Betania apparitions not only conform with Scripture and Church teachings, but also "are authentic, they are supernatural, and they are of a divine source.” Afterwards, thirty-five of Venezuela's thirty-seven bishops and auxiliary bishops accepted his assessment, that is, they did not object to it. Bishop Pio Bello's approval states that Betania is a sacred place for prayer, pilgrimages and worship. It is important to note that Bishop Bello's investigation pertained only to the events at Betania and that he did not comment on the other mystical phenomena related to the life of Maria Esperanza. of course the clearest proof is Revelation 6: [12] And I saw, when he had opened the sixth seal, and behold there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair: and the whole moon became as blood: [13] And the stars from heaven fell upon the earth, as the fig tree casteth its green figs when it is shaken by a great wind: [14] And the heaven departed as a book folded up: and every mountain, and the islands were moved out of their places. [15] And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and tribunes, and the rich, and the strong, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of mountains: [16] And they say to the mountains and the rocks: Fall upon us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth upon the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb: [17] For the great day of their wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?
Andy, Your 2 are in addition to Saint Faustina. That is why I found it a bit odd that in MV's book on the End Times there is no mention of it, just an observation.
