Alice Von Hildebrand Sheds New Light on Third Secret of Fatima

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by BrianK, May 12, 2016.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    Pope Paul VI sanctioned the new mass. He's not very popular among the trad crowd though some would say he was "saved" by HV.
  2. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

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  3. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Pope Paul VI an apostate? I wouldn't believe that for half a second.

    Now if by the "top" the message is referring to Cardinals, it would be hard to find a time in the Church's history where there weren't a few likely candidates, as is the case now. There's one in particular who is very popular and, God forgive me for my suspicions, but I can only hope and pray that he never gets to be Pope.

    I suppose that the message could say both, but I'm more inclined to disbelieve that any part of the message was withheld when what was supposedly withheld is leaked in bits and pieces. It seems strange to me that a Cardinal would confide in his friend one piece of what was withheld and not all of it, and if all was revealed by the Cardinal, wouldn't it be incumbent on the priest to tell all of what he knew rather than only a part of it.
  4. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

  5. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Fr. Malachi Martin said that those who saw it were under oath to not reveal its content....but....if anyone would quote what they had heard or believed the third secret to be.....he wouldn't deny it. Then when someone did quote what they through the secret to be, Fr. Martin hesitated and then, that is not it....there is a portion of it that is correct, but it is much worse that what you quoted. He went on to say that you really do not want to know what it is. I bet that's the truth!
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  6. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    I never said that. If he was he would not have published HV. But neither is he material for sainthood.
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  7. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    You're right, Brian, you didn't say that. That was my 2+2 making 5 because according to Cardinal Ratzinger's friend part of the secret that wasn't revealed said something about a bad Mass, and the Von Hildebrands said that it is about the apostasy reaching to the top of the Church. I'm sorry for giving the wrong impression in my previous post.

    It's a pity there's so much controversy about the third secret. If the apostasy reaching to the top of the Church means all the way to the Pope, I don't understand how anyone privvy to the secret could be bound to silence when the only person who could release them from the vow would be the apostate himself. It doesn't make sense.
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  8. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    1973 Akita
    The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, and bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their Confreres. The Church and altars will be vandalized. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.

    To be Catholic means to be Marian.

    Why has devotion to our Lady been relegated to some marginal, off-post within the life of the Church? For me this is a great sign of the times that at the precise moment the Church needs the Mother the most, they have abandoned her and ignore her to the detriment of the faithful.

    Hail, Queen of Heaven, the Ocean Star, Guide of the wanderer here below:

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  9. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

  10. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Father Hunwicke, in his blog, lays a lot of the responsibility for liturgical change on Pius XIIth and his protege Bugnini. Not that it was necessarily intentional on the part of the former. Perhaps significantly, perhaps not, he's not a candidate for canonisation any time soon.
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  11. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    I never heard of Father Hunwicke. I feel a bit sorry for Pius XII. He got a hard time post WW2 with many unfounded allegations against him including the spurious "Hitler's Pope". Liturgical change could cover a multitude and it isn't always bad. For example, I see nothing wrong with Mass in English because it helps me concentrate, yet some people act like it is the worst thing that ever happened. I'm not a big fan of the priest facing the people but I wouldn't call it abuse. I sat through a rant at Mass last year (not my parish) where the priest was incensed about the words "we dare to call you Father" having been included in the Mass. It's impossible to please everybody. Maybe the Tridentine Mass in English would have been sufficient change, but surely there were enough conservative bishops at that time to prevent the Novus Ordu being implemented had they considered it to be liturgical abuse.

    Much is made about the Holy Spirit protecting the Pope from teaching error, but I'm not so sure that is a correct interpretation of what Jesus said about always being with the Church. My understanding is that the Holy Spirit will protect the Church from teaching error and this works by checks and balances that include the Pope, the Bishops, Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, which probably explains why there have been so few ex-Cathedra pronouncements. The Pope (any Pope) alone is not the Church although some act as though he is.

    Regarding some of the Third Secret having been withheld, I lean towards the "put up or shut up" side. As others have said, Lucy had ongoing apparitions that could have given her a clearer understanding of what the secret meant, but that wouldn't have changed the secret as originally written down. If Fr. Martin thought that we really wouldn't want to know what he knew, he should have kept his mouth shut about it. "I know something you don't know" sounds like childish attention seeking to me. Sorry if that sounds disrespectful to Fr. Martin.
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  12. Thanks for this garabandal, it has remained my favourite song/hymn ever since my schooldays as a 4-7 year old in the orphanage mayday procession:)
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2016
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  13. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    No Delours, that was a wrong interpretation of Fr. Martin. He desperately wanted to share the contents of the secret...but he had taken an oath not to reveal it.
    During the interview on Fatima, the third secret naturally came up. When asked he said that he could not reveal the contents because of his oath...he was not teasing the listeners. He added that if anyone quoted it to him that he would not deny it. He tried to answer as many of the questions about it that were posed to him, trying to satisfy the audience without breaking his oath. In no way was he teasing the listeners. He felt it should have been revealed in 1960 , but added that it was not a "pleasant thing"....that we might be disturbed by it. He though the pope was very wrong for not revealing its content as he felt it might wake up the souls in sin. He died with the secret and the Vatican did not reveal their version until after Fr. Martin's death. It is my opinion that had they released their version before Fr. Martin had died...he would have publicly disagreed with it. If what I've read about the third secret by those who actually did read it, the vaticans version is missing the relevant message of the secret. If that isn't the case, then why all of the fan fair about the message that they did release? What was so earth shaking about the vaticans version that caused them to ignore the blessed mothers request to reveal it in 1960? If the Vatican felt it could over ride the wishes of Our Lady, then I have no problem questioning their judgement and therefore their version.
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  14. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    How would Fr Martin have been shown the Third Secret, given that it was intended only for Popes? Presumably at one time it was translated into Italian from Portuguese by someone. And Lucia's bishop in 1944 may have seen it, but who else? Did Fr Martin speak Portuguese? We know that John Paul II showed the Secret to Cardinal Ratzinger, but it wasn't handed round.

    Fr Martin also alleged that animal sacrifice went on in the Vatican.
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  15. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Thanks, Beth, for explaining how Fr. Martin answered questions about the Third Secret. How did he happen to read the secret? I'm sure I read somewhere how it happened but I can't remember the context. It is clear from your explanation that Fr. Martin wasn't deliberately teasing people about the Secret, although I'm still of the opinion that it would have been more prudent for him to have refused to answer any questions about the Secret.

    The secret wasn't earth shaking at the time it was released because Pope John Paul had survived the assassination attempt. If it had been released in 1960, there would have been speculation surrounding every public appearance by every Pope since then. Imagine the bookies giving odds and people placing bets on whether this or that event would be the one where the Pope would be killed. Knowing the contents of the secret increases my respect and admiration for St. John Paul II who must have wondered whether this would be the day every time he set foot outside the Vatican. Of course that doesn't excuse disobedience to Our Lady, but we will never know whether all the Popes actually believed in the Fatima messages.

    Is there a recording anywhere, or even a written record of that question and answer session with Fr. Martin?
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  16. Pope John XXIII was not interested in reading the 3rd Secret. After rejecting the opportunity was when the "deal"/agreement was made between the Vatican and the Soviet Union. That agreement apparently ruled on the various attempts to create some type of Consecration. Then when he finally did read it he didn't know what to do. He called an advisory board of 9 prelates, 7 of which advised him not to Consecrate that was that for that particular time.

    Of course we have not only the first report by Fr. Amorth who organized the 1984 attempt where he witnessed JPII asking three times whether he could actually say Russia and was told by "the politicians" absolutely not. Recently we have the report that he explained the same for a second time:'s Chief Exorcist.pdf

    Of course by 1991 the Vatican was free from the conditions of that former agreement and could have performed the explicitly requested Consecration.

    Someone who has read the third secret has stated (and I believe Benedict also mentioned this) that one could simply read the following Akita message to find what similar things are also contained in it:

    The third message on October 13, 1973, the actual anniversary of the final visions and miracle of Fatima is as follows:

    "As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by my Son. Each day, recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and the priests. The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, and bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their Confreres. The Church and altars will be vandalized. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.

    "The demon will rage especially against souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will no longer be pardon for them."
  17. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Martin was a brilliant scholar who did translations for the Vatican. He was the special assistant to a Cardinal Beau(?spelling) who was privy to the shared secret. Fr. Martin said that there were also two Portuguese seminarians who did the translations for those present. All of them at the reading took the oath of secrecy. It is considered common knowledge that all popes have read the secret. Some have discussed its contents ...but not all of it in its entirety. Bits and pieces have come out by the popes over time...also allowing followers the ability to combine them and conclude that the Vatican could honestly say that all of the secret has been revealed....but....not at one time. It was either jpII or BENEDICT that said if you know Our Lady's message of Akita, ( Japanese apparition) then you know the message of Fatima. Read the message of's " not pleasant" as Fr, Martin has said.... oh...Akita is church approved.
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  18. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Yes, Fr. Martin did many taped interviews...they are all on you tube. I'll try to find a link that has his playlist for you. He is sooooooo interesting. He was one of the highest rated programs on radio when he did interviews. He was a best selling writer who exposed corruption within the church. And from what I'm witnessing currently in my diocese and around the world...Fr. Martine was spot on! He had asked for release from his vow of poverty and obedience...and it was granted to him. Otherwise he could not have earned a living or written his books exposing the church and other subjects. He was a priest in every other sense of the word. He said the Latin mass everyday, could hear confessions, perform baptisms etc. he was a noted exorcist as well and wrote a book on that it. He was a faithful man of God and was trying to warn the world of the coming apostasy.

    Check here for the topic of your choice. They are all good....Fr.Malachi Martin interviews

    Malachi Martin Audio - YouTube
    YouTube › user › MalachiMartinAudio
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
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  19. Here is a youtube interview with Fr. Martin with a listing of others in the right hand column....some of which may be redundant.

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  20. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Thank you

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