Hi Julia . The version you are talking about is the very first post on this thread. Neues Europa 1963...http://www.fatima.org/thirdsecret/neueseuropa.asp
You may be right . I found this book , certainly looks legit ... page 248...http://www.saintsbooks.net/books/St. Francis of Assisi - Works of the Seraphic Father.pdf
Hi Mac in this link we are told "the greatest world war will happen in the second half of the 20th century....etc etc. " but the events described have not happened. WWII ended in 1945. Can you help me understand this.
I am not claiming to be an expert, but I think the problem with it is that there are no primary sources for it. I believe it popped up in the 1880's and we can't find a trace of it before then. A similar case is the prophecy of St. Nilus which only dates back 100 years or so. I am not saying it definitely isn't legit. Much has been lost to the sands of time. Certainly enough people quote it that it would be fine to do so. I was just offering food for thought.
I'll try . might take a couple of posts over the evening what with dinner and rosary an such. The first and easiest answer would be to just ignore this version as nonsense. But if Cardinal Ottaviani did OK it then there should be some truth in it. A lot of truth. Some people would say the 2nd secret of Fatima was incorrect because Our Lady said a second World War would start during the pontificate of Pius XI. Pius XI died Feb 10 1939. Most say WWII started Sep 1st 1939 when Germany invaded Poland . Was Our Lady wrong ? Did She make a mistake ?. No, I think She has a better understanding than most Historians. She was correct .... Our Lady stated unequivocally that if Her requests were carried out, then there would be peace and many souls would be saved. The war (World War I) would come to an end and would be followed by peace i.e. there would not be a World War II. However, if people would not stop offending God, the Mother of God warned that there would be another war even worse than World War I, and this war would begin in the reign of Pius XI. World War II actually did begin during the reign of Pius XI, and later in the reign of Pius XII, this conflict escalated into a world war. World War II a Result of Ignoring Fatima Actually, conflicts broke out between the Japanese Manchurian Army and Chinese forces on July 7, 1937 at the Marco Polo Bridge near Peiping (Beijing). The Japanese used this incident as a pretext to overrun northern China, and then moved on to eastern and southern China. The war came to an end only when, after the dropping of the atomic bomb, the Japanese Manchurian Army (Kwantung Army) surrendered to Soviet forces, who were only at war for 5 days, in August 1945.
Paper work, Rosary and Dinner with my big Maori friend Paul who has just caught some snapper. It's a hard life Thanks for the work in progress. Will check in later.
So Fr Villa has the content as this... A great chastisement will fall on the entire human race; not today as yet, not tomorrow, but in the second half of the Twentieth Century. No longer does order reign anywhere and Satan will reign over the highest places directing the course of events. He (Satan) really will succeed in infiltrating to the top of the Church. Also for the Church a time of Her greatest trials will come. Cardinals will oppose Cardinals; Bishops will oppose Bishops and Satan will march amid their ranks, and in Rome there will be changes. What is rotten will fall, and what will fall will never rise again. The Church will be darkened and the world deranged by terror. A great war will break out within the second half of the Twentieth Century. Fire and smoke will fall from Heaven, the water of the oceans will become vapors and the foam will rise up and flooding and sinking everything. Millions and millions of people will die by the hour and the survivors will envy the dead. Death will reign everywhere for the errors committed by the foolish and by the partisans of Satan, who, then and only then, will reign over the world. At last, those who will survive all of these events will once more proclaim God and His Glory and serve Him like before, when the world was not so Which is different from .."The greatest World War will happen in the second half of the 20th Century. I dont know if the change is a better translation or an attempt at keeping the prophecy alive . If it is a better translation, I think any upcoming war could be considered to have BROKEN OUT in the 2oth century. Any war between USA and Russia began during the cold war . And any war with the Arabs had beginnings in 1991 with the Iraq war . Future historians will have to debate that.
Hi Mac Thanks for your work Mac. I think of the Little Flower who loved simplicity and who had a horror of pretense. She said "We should not say improbable things or things we do not know." All in all this extract sounds like one of those things to me." Thanks for your explanation.
It may be the case though that the "war" began in the 90's. Pope Francis has this last year said something to the effect that we are in WWIII and just don't realize it because it is a different type of war than in the past with no clear "start". Also, I read somewhere, but I can't find it now that Sister Lucy was supposed to live to see the fulfillment of everything she had been given as a secret. Possibly the beginning of WWIII? In addition after September 11th I believe she had a series of important letters going to the Vatican. Possibly letting them know this was the start of the end? I could be wrong on that. If anyone knows and could link to it that would be great.
I have not heard that about her witnessing the fulfillment of all she was told . Pretty much the opposite . The third secret was to be opened at her death or 1960 at the latest . Whichever came first. This article mentions the supposed new revelations...http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr70/cr70pg03.asp
I may very well be wrong, but I know I read it somewhere. Also remember, from her perspective opening the third secret in 1960 or in the event of her death and her living to see the fulfillment of at least the beginning of all of the secrets are not mutually exclusive as I don't think she knew the timetable. Plus putting the caveat of her death on the envelope may have been a sign of humility in that she would not presume to know the mind of God. If I have time today I will see if I can find the quote I was referring to.
Sorry Mac, I was wrong It was something I had read but it must have been bogus. I found the alleged prophecy addressed by John Vennari in this article: http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr79/cr79pg09.asp
I was just searching Malachi Martin and I came upon this interesting post on FE. I have been thinking about putting something together showing all the ridiculous contradictions regarding Fatima . Especially concerning Cardinal Bertone ,whose foot has been caught so often in his mouth its surprisng he could draw breath . Anyway this one concerns Cardinal Ratzinger . And it is a fair comment..... Please note the color coding below to note contradictions. The green pairs with green, the red with red, etc. In 1984, when asked by an interviewer why the Third Secret hasn't been revealed: "Because, according to the judgement of the Popes, it adds nothing to what a Christian must know concerning what derives from Revelation: i.e., a radical call for conversion; the absolute importance of history; the dangers threatening the faith and the life of the Christian, and therefore of the world. And then the importance of the end times. If it is not made public - at least for the time being - it is in order to prevent religious prophecy from being mistaken for a quest for the sensational. But the things contained in this 'Third Secret' correspond to what has been announced in Scripture and has been said again and again in many other Marian apparitions, first of all that of Fatima in what is already known of what its message contains. Conversion and penitence are the essential conditions for 'salvation'." In 1996, when asked by an interviewer why the Third Secret hasn't been revealed: "I've had enough of speaking about that. The message transmitted by Sister Lucy, and not yet revealed, concerns neither the history of the world in general nor individual facts in particular. The Lady does not enter into details about the future. The Secret contains nothing new, it foretells no tragedy for humanity, nothing apocalyptic and nothing essential for the faith. The Lady simply opens a path, and this path leads to conversion and to faith. In a certain sense, the Second Vatican Council was the realization of the Virgin's message and, in summoning it, Pope John XXIII did the essential in answer to the Virgin's message."[taken from The Catholic Counter-Reformation in the XXth Century, #289, Oct. 1996] --> see: http://www.catholicism.org/downloads/suppressing.pdf . Also the book, FATIMA IN TWILIGHT, Mark Fellows, Marmion Publications, 2003). So, what happened? Cardinal Ratzinger told two different stories. He didn't just tell two different stories. His second story was the exact opposite of his first one! According to EWTN, in the '90s Cardinal Ratzinger also stated the following. This is the most freaky part of all: "To all those who are curious, I would say that they should be certain that the Virgin does not engage in sensationalism; she does not create fear. She does not present apocalyptic visions, but guides people to her Son. And in this we have the essential (of the secret)." http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/ENDNEAR.TXT So here we have Cardinal Ratzinger, after personally declaring Akita worthy of belief, saying that the Blessed Virgin does not appear to "create fear", nor does she appear to "present apocalyptic visions." What exactly does this mean? What are we to infer from this? What's appearing then, if it's not the Blessed Virgin? Or is he saying that all Marian apparitions like this are simply fabricated, consciously or unconsciously by the seers? There is some justification for the second theory, because in his official 2000 commentary that accompanied the Third Secret release, Cardinal Ratzinger referred to an expert, Father Dhanis, who speculated that Sr. Lucia may have engaged in "embellishment" and "unconscious fabrication." Cardinal Ratzinger also made these key remarks in his commentary: "The concluding part of the “secret” uses images which Lucia may have seen in devotional books." These last two quotations by Cardinal Ratzinger, as far as I know, don't appear in any of Fr. Gruner's or Fr. Kramer's publications. Why? I'd like to highlight a sentence from the 1996 statement that I'm sure caught everyone's eye: " In a certain sense, the Second Vatican Council was the realization of the Virgin's message and, in summoning it, Pope John XXIII did the essential in answer to the Virgin's message." Oh, now that's interesting. Remember the "profits of doom" statement at the opening of Vatican II that Fr. Martin referred to? Plus, the major contention of Fr. Gruner, Fr. Kramer, Ferrara and friends seems to be that the Third Secret actually warns of an evil council. As a matter of fact, in a recent publication of the Fatima Crusader, Fr. Kramer states that an elderly priest told him that Cardinal Ratzinger confirmed to him that this was the case. http://www.fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=3404190.0
"Behold I am sending you out as sheep among wolves, be cunning as serpents and innocent as doves." What greater example of obedience to these instructions can we find than that of Our Holy Father. May God protect him, we humbly pray.
"World Apostolate of Fatima" Hides Our Lady of Fatima's Words in English Translation of New Lucia Biography The WAF “translation” employs the words “your opinion” to replace what the Portuguese original records as Our Lady’s actual words: “que te é dado entender do seu significado”—“that which has been given to you to understand its meaning.” Thus, amazingly enough, the WAF “translation” removes six words from the Portuguese original (que te é dado entender do) and replaces them with two words nowhere to be found in the text. The “World Apostolate of Fatima” has a lot of explaining to do. I will be very interested to see how they defend this “translation” of the words of the Mother of God, which replaces six of her crucial words with two of theirs. The Third Secret cover-up continues.http://fatima.org/perspectives/sv/perspective743.asp
Interesting indeed. And just shows how far the WAF will go to promote their false version of events. No qualms at all changing the words and meaning of the Blessed Virgin to fit their agenda.
Its a bit like the CDF first ratifying the supernatural in Amsterdam, approving the prayer that The Lady dictated then changing it because they thought they knew better and then not promulgating the 5th dogma as She had asked in this approved event. The contents of the 5th dogma are not even new. They just needed to be acknowledged and their properties officially conferred by the Body of Christ to faciltate the mission that Mary is waiting to accomplish. It's like a soldier waiting for promotion so that he can command and lead with official approval. He was always a soldier. Now he can succeed in his mission with his new authority. So half of the events were supernatural and the rest could not be proved. Does not sound like the Holy Spirit at work here. We are assured in scripture (I think) that the HS does not deal in half measures. But just as Our Lady of Fatima assure us of Her ultimate triumph so The Lady of All Nations/Mother of All Peoples assures us the 5th dogma will be taught by Her Church. Even Our Lady submits herself to the Church.....for now. The time may come when Her Son says "enough is enough" and forces the Church to comply with Her requests and commands for its own good. With God nothing is impossible and He can do no wrong. His authority is greater than that of the church in its ignorance as opposed to the church in its wisdom. Just as well Pope Francis is re-structuring the CDF
