2016 Presidential Election Thread

Trump will not have to "saw off" Ryan. A true conservative and honest Catholic family man will not, ever, attach himself to Trump. Ryan ran for office because he loves his country and the ideals that make it great. He knows those ideals are what "make America great" and he knows America does not need Trump to make it great. If anyone will have to capitulate between the two of them, it would be Trump.

 

You know ,"Byron",
Maybe you can answer this since you have read so many comments on this political forum since you first joined in April....

You make the point that dawn and I repeatedly make the same anti trump comments....let me ask you, maybe you are asking the wrong question. Maybe the question you as a new member should be asking is, " why doesn't anyone who supports trump have a defense for trump?" Why are the facts about trump being ignored? Why not just defend the accusations about trump? That might be a good start if you are actually an objective new comer. Yes, question why instead of defending trump with a good argument, question why the only defense is attacking the "messenger" with insulting accusations and numerous attempts to silence any opposition. But, then it's understandable...considering that is the example set by your chosen candidate...insult, lie and bully. Hey, whatever works for yah...right?

 

Ryan is a snake who gave Obama everything he wanted and more on a silver platter. You are not foolin anyone.

 

Are you kidding? He fully funded Planned Parenthood. Snake indeed. He needs to be run out of town.

 

No, to both Richard and Picadillo. You see, once you are elected to office, you have to actually engage, and you are highly mistaken if you think Trump will not. He will either actually do what he claims he will do and use executive orders or he will do what an elected official in the United States of America is expected to do, work with other elected officials. Since Trump, polar opposite to Ryan, has absolutely no ideals except for his own aggrandizement, which has been proven to you many times but you refuse to actually respond to the facts, since Trump has no ideals he will be worse than a piece of driftwood tossed about on the ocean. He will trade away any and every "ideal" you think he will fight for. You are in a dreamworld, or you are in your basement and never come out.

And you believe that a self-serving entertainer like Trump will stick more closely to ideals? What ideals? He changes ideals like underwear. Ryan is an honest conservative ideologue who happened to get elected to office to put his ideals forward. He is not a monarch. You get in the area and see if you can do better, you can't. At least he got in the ring. That is what you seem to misunderstand and then use your misunderstanding to label every conservative elected official there is an "elitist" in a cabal set on world government.

You think everyone except Trump is in some kind of conspiracy against Trump. Who are YOU trying to fool, Richard. Putin and Trump are honorable but Paul Ryan, a sincere Catholic family man, is not? What world do you live in?

 

Dawn, one the the suggested compromise candidates is Ted Cruz. Didn't Ryan's predecessor, another good Catholic family man, refer to him as Lucifer in the the flesh? Something's wrong when people who supposedly hold and represent Christian values are referring to other Christians, however lukewarm, as the devil incarnate. There have been similar suggestions made here about Trump. Nobody's perfect but anybody is better than Clinton.

 

the "nobody's perfect" argument does not work with trump. First of all, he's never held office, so you don't know how he will compromise. Since he has been connected to organized criminals in his business dealings, I can only imagine. There is "nobody's perfect" and then there is Trump, whose list of imperfections, as has been noted, is far, far, far beyond that of Cruz or Ryan. to suggest otherwise is not fair or reasonable on a Catholic forum. Assuming Cruz cheated on his wife, which now we know may have not been true, assuming he had to compromise his very high ideals as Ryan has in order to work in what some people here seem not to know is a representative republic, there is no way in the world either rises to the level of Trump. Trump has said he has no ideals. It is impossible to compare that kind of record with the record of Cruz or Ryan and come out saying, well, see, they are the same, nobody's perfect or laughably, that Trump is somehow better.

And, yes, I have said worse of Trump and will say it again right now. Someone who claims to be a Presbyterian but is not at all familiar with the Bible and someone who claims to be Christian but has proclaimed he has never asked forgiveness for anything and does not intend to, ever, does have the spirit of antichrist. yes, he does. Hillary is not an option and, to my knowledge, no one here has supported Hillary. If someone does, I will oppose that person too. America can do better than the two unacceptable options we have been presented with. We are not a bunch of idiots that lay down without a fight. I will fight and support a viable third candidate. I have offered plenty of evidence for why one can win, using the example of Lincoln.

 

Unfortunately, Dawn, your choice is Trump or Clinton. Trump shoots his mouth off, is no angel, knows it, and has no track record as an elected official. Clinton shoots her mouth off, is no angel and has an evil record as an elected official that she calls good. Your alternative of some knight in shining armour conservative candidate will result in handing the Presidency to Clinton. There isn't a hope of Trump's supporters deserting him for some candidate that hasn't won the primaries. There's even less hope of independents or disaffected Democrats voting for such a candidate. Nobody in their right mind could seriously suggest that there are enough disaffected Democrats and independents to take sufficient votes from Hillary Clinton to leave no candidate with a majority in the electoral college. Therefore, this talk of a third candidate can only be aimed at taking enough Republican votes from Trump to ensure a Clinton win. At this stage, a vote for anybody but Trump or not voting at all ensures a Clinton win. You can sit back and say you did what you thought was right as she packs the Supreme Court, but you're deluding yourself if you think voting third party or abstaining will have a different result than electing Clinton. As it is, she might beat Trump in a straight run-off. She's almost guaranteed to be President if the Republicans run any candidate other than Trump.

 

Omg...really, what world are they living in?

The only defense the trumpsters can mount against all of the countless , crediable arguments against him is " well, he is no saint"! No kidding....His total reckless regard for truth, respect, faithfulness, family, or any other virtue is all but ignored! He is glorified because he " says it like it is"...but how it is for him changes from one day to the next! Everyone who "treats him good or says " nice" things about him, is, as he says, "wonderful...great", until they don't...then they are "losers".

This is a guy who bragged how he used the system....and now expects us to think that he is against that system . Seriously?

He throws one liners out there like " build the wall" , and like zombies, everyone shouts...yeah...go trump! But behind closed doors in an off the record interview with the New York Times, he sings a different tune...and refuses to allow the times to release the tapes. He also refuses to release his taxes...maybe a little too much info ...you think?

Heck, you'd get writers cramp if you had to list this chameleons laundry List of vile, vulgar history. A lot of it is too salacious to print...but it's there for anyone that cares to see.

Have the republicans stood up to Obama...no, not in my opinion. Some tried....some like Cruz....you know, that good Christian pro constitution, ProLife, pro religious freedom, anti Obama guy! Remember him? Trumps opponent , Cruz....you know, the one good guy that the trumpsters called the liar!

Well, now you have your trump. Looks like he will win this thing too. The guy that said that he is the great unifier is now saying that he doesn't care if the party unites behind him.....He says he's not worried about it because he has sooooo many democrats who are supporting him. And guess what...he's right. So here is the guy that trumpsters are professing to be soooo conservative...the guy who is going to straighten out all those republicans, ! You trumpsters choose this guy over a proven conservative like Cruz? Wow, good luck with that!

Well you OWN it guys...trump is your man....your answer to all the ills of the Republican Party . Mr. Fix it! .....or is it Mr. Broke it? You all should be jumping for joy. That's what everyone was doing before that ship called the titanic went down...pretty stinkin sad.

And we are the delusional ones? Ha


P.S. This is, who trump is...deny it all you like...he has zero core values...this is the guy trumpsters trust with the highest office in the land...really, you trust
THIS GUY? Wow....just wow!

 

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No, not to worry if other folks like me will not support trump. He says it doesn't matter if the Republican Party unites behind him. Trump said that he has sooooo many democrats supporting him that it's not a problem...not to worry. Donald has so many folks, both democrats and republicans supporting him, that no one whose conscience could not allow themselves to support him, need worry. Problem solved...not for America...but for everyone who is fretting that millions of republicans cannot, and will not vote for trump. AND I do believe that trump will be elected. I do believe that the democrats will support trump. I just won't have to live with it on my conscience. So, you all relax .

 

You know very well, Beth, that nobody said that not voting for Hillary is a vote for Trump. Hillary will have the full support of her party and the majority of their voters. It will take a single candidate with the full backing of the other major political party to beat her. Now you either want Clinton or your don't. If you don't want Clinton, your option is to vote for Trump.

That's the truth. I'm no Trumpet or whatever term you use to disparage people who have supported him from the start. The fact is that Clinton has an evil agenda fully supported by her party and their billionnaire backers. To say that you won't vote at all or will vote for anyone other than the only candidate with a hope of beating her, is the same as saying that you will put Clinton in the White House. Now, you are perfectly free to do that with a clear conscience, but suggesting that others are supporting evil because they acknowledge that voting for Trump as the only means of stopping her is simply wrong and unfair.

 

No, others have said that not voting for trump is a vote for Hillary. What has been unfair is the way trump supporters have attacked a good man like Cruz while ignoring one of the most vile men to ever run for office...trump.

As far as calling trump supporters trumpsters, that is a commonly referred to phrase, used by even trump supporters themselves. And....dawn and myself have been called dispicable things here on this forum routinely. Richards most recent comment was referring to us as delusional. So be it.

I do not think that folks who vote for trump are evil. What I do believe is that both Clinton and trump are both evil...AND THAT I CANNOT VOTE FOR EITHER OF THESE TWO. there is a difference. I do understand that many, many well meaning folks will vote for Trump over Clinton believing that he is the lesser of the two evils. That's their decision and I do not fault them. There are others though, that supported trump over Cruz, and had the chance to pick the good candidate over the evil candidate that I feel need to share in the blame of whatever is to come. ....and no, I do not view any of them as evil. I do believe that they are seriously wrong. And so, time will tell...won't it. Trump will either be the savior or the scoundrel . I'm betting on the latter.

 

As Hillary is famous for saying, " what difference does it make?"

 

Well, I for one believe, Beth, that Dawn and you are following your consciences, and I respect that. I also believe that you are deluding yourselves if you think that not voting for Trump will result in anything other than a Clinton presidency. I admire Cruz for having had the courage to stand up against Obama when it was clear that he didn't have the support of the power brokers in his own party. Unfortunately, they didn't want him to get the nomination and were happy to sit back and watch as too many candidates kept him from having a clear run against Trump in the primaries. They only warmed to him as their favourites were rejected by their party members. Cruz cannot beat Clinton, and they know it.

Even if the Republican Party were to resurrect Abraham Lincoln and put his name on the ballot, he couldn't get the result you and Dawn are hoping for because, whatever else anyone can say about the moral compass of American voters, they haven't lost their sense of fair play.

You must follow your conscience even if that means abstaining or voting third party, but in doing so you cannot be unaware that the result will be a Clinton victory. Although I don't have a vote, I'm watching this election process very closely because the outcome affects the whole world.

I wish you all well and I will be praying for the conversion of whoever wins. Sadly, if Clinton wins it will take the conversion of her entire party to see any improvement.

 

Trump could come out tomorrow and say that he is dropping his three exceptions for abortion and Beth and the other #NEVERTRUMP crowd would say that he doesn't mean it because in 1994 he said blah, blah, blah....

You see, the fact is that some folks will NEVER support Trump under any circumstances. He is a direct threat to the Neocon establishment and it doesn't matter how saintly he could become, they will never support him.

Numerous GOP elites, from Ben Shapiro to Bill Kristol to numerous others, have all made it clear that abortion and other social issues are not the real issue they care about when it comes to Trump because they would rather have Hillary than Trump. No, the thing that really bothers the GOP elites and other fake conservatives is the fact that Trump has the nerve to use the term "America First." This implies that on Trade Deals and Foregin Policy the interests of Israel, Saudi Arabia and the Globalists will now come second to America's interests. For the Neocons who have been running the show in the Bush and Obama Administrations this is unacceptable and is why they are pushing #NEVERTRUMP so hard.

 

We've been here before, Richard. This is what I am talking about. Why don't you actually address the points people bring up rather than repeat yourself in a vacuum? The elite neocon blogger nonsense does not resonate. You believe everyone who actually runs for office and engages in what is a representative republic is a compromising, elitist, neocon, secret society plant. According to that thinking, no one can actually do a good job in an elected position as outlined in the constitution. The only logical option is that you want some type of authoritarian regime.

Ok, I'll play along in your imaginary world, Richard. What is your evidence that Trump's wavering record of liberalism interrupted by his current foray into the Republican party is to be believed? When have you seen him stick to a cause that is not himself? What has convinced you that what no sincere person running for office in the United States of America, ever, has had the courage, intellect or fortitude not to succumb to, Trump will so easily not succumb to? If these corrupt, warlock-like elites and neocons are so good at brainwashing every single person to be elected to office in the country, ever, what qualities does Trump have that will make him completely immune to their wiles? Who is living in a dream world? Will you answer this question, or go on about the neocons and NAFTA again?

 

I can't improve on Dawns response..it was spot on.

I will however address this remark from Richard67 :

Trump could come out tomorrow and say that he is dropping his three exceptions for abortion and Beth and the other #NEVERTRUMP crowd would say that he doesn't mean it because in 199

No, better yet, I'll let Donald Trump tell us how his support for him will never fail...no matter what he does:

I could "shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters" Donald Trump

Finally some truth from trump.



My God, I believe, I adore, I hope, and I love You and I ask pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope, and do not love You

 

1994, Richard? The video clip Beth posted shows Trump endorsing Clinton in the '08 election. He later went on to say Obama would be a great young president. Only after the 2012 election did he turn anti-Obama for some unexplained reason. I say unexplained because all he was willing to say against him was he was not born in Hawaii. Nothing about abortion, NAFTA, or defeating the neocons. Just Hawaii/Kenya. What do you make of that, Richard?

 

Actually, Trump did find a few things to say about Obama other than where he was born...and a few things to say about (Crooked ) Hillary too...