Countdown to the Kingdom

Christy are you calling SSPX schismatic?

 

No, I am not. SSPX is not (I think, the priests still have limited faculties for the sacraments left from Year of Mercy?) But, they may be described as "traditional."

The slash/to me, is like an "or" to separate things. As in, Y/N.

 

Their Masses are not licit
They are not canonically recognized

 

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Brian you have my outmost assurance from this moment forward that I will remove any future content relating to vassula from this forum... The first line of your first post was enough reading for me I needed not read any further... John Paul was lead astray... Enough end of discussion... Vassula is Toast on my watch......

"Quis ut Deus", May 22, 2020Report
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This is the post from Quis.

 

On what authority......apparently not the Church's! Seems the forum is going the way of those who make things up and disregard true authority....as is the secular spirit these days. Certainly not speaking as the Church has done re: this matter.

 

The situation is "murky." They have limited freedom to do some things, since 2017, so "canonically recognized" is hard to figure! Sometimes, maybe. Usually, not. The ordinations are valid, apparently, but the priests suspended, most of the time.... There was permission for confessions, during the Year of Mercy, which was extended.

https://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-validates-sspx-confessions-for-year-of-mercy

Also, from EWTN, they can perform licit marriages, under certain circumstances:

"...The point was officially explained in a missive issued on April 4, 2017: “Letter of the Pontifical Commission ‘Ecclesia Dei’ to the Ordinaries of the Episcopal Conferences concerned on the faculties for the celebration of marriages of the faithful of the Society Saint Pius X.”:

“Your Eminence, Your Excellency,

“As you are aware, for some time various meetings and other initiatives have been ongoing in order to bring the Society of St. Pius X into full communion. Recently, the Holy Father decided, for example, to grant all priests of said Society the faculty to validly administer the Sacrament of Penance to the faithful (Letter Misericordia et misera, n.12), such as to ensure the validity and liceity of the Sacrament and allay any concerns on the part of the faithful.

“Following the same pastoral outlook which seeks to reassure the conscience of the faithful, despite the objective persistence of the canonical irregularity in which for the time being the Society of St. Pius X finds itself, the Holy Father, following a proposal by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, has decided to authorize Local Ordinaries the possibility to grant faculties for the celebration of marriages of faithful who follow the pastoral activity of the Society, according to the following provisions..."

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/sspx-masses-14267

 

Right, but they do not have permission from any diocese or hierarchical authority to celebrate Mass. Therefore, their Masses are not licit. They are illegal.

 

Unfortunately Bishop Fellay desired all of the humility necessary for coming to a solution should come from other than himself:

Position on Canonical Status

The position of Church Militant concerning the SSPX is that of the Holy Father, Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI, as expressed in the motu proprio Ecclesiae Unitatem, issued July 2, 2009:

In the same spirit and with the same commitment to encouraging the resolution of all fractures and divisions in the Church and to healing a wound in the ecclesial fabric that was more and more painfully felt, I wished to remit the excommunication of the four Bishops illicitly ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre. With this decision I intended to remove an impediment that might have jeopardized the opening of a door to dialogue and thereby to invite the Bishops and the "Society of St. Pius X" to rediscover the path to full communion with the Church. As I explained in my Letter to the Catholic Bishops of last 10 March, the remission of the excommunication was a measure taken in the context of ecclesiastical discipline to free the individuals from the burden of conscience constituted by the most serious of ecclesiastical penalties. However, the doctrinal questions obviously remain and until they are clarified the Society has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry. (emphasis added)

The SSPX bishops were excommunicated and their illicit consecrations defined as schismatic in the motu proprio Ecclesia Dei issued July 2, 1988. The excommunications have been lifted, but the canonical status of the SSPX remains unchanged.

There are two important points here:

1. The SSPX is not in full communion with the Church and is invited by the Church to rediscover this path.

2. The SSPX has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry.

This has never been formally changed by the Holy See, in spite of Pope Francis' recent indults allowing the Society to hear confessions — a benefit provided explicitly for the good of the faithful in the Jubilee Year of Mercy, and extended indefinitely.

Communion with the Chair of Peter is a constitutive part of Roman Catholicism — something the SSPX accepts in principle but rejects in practice. As Pope Benedict said, the SSPX has "no canonical status," "no legitimate ministry," is "invited to rediscover the path to full communion," has no faculties from any bishop, is not part of the divinely ordained hierarchical structure of the Church and all its priests are suspended a divinis.

........
Because the Society of St. Pius X is not in full communion with the Catholic Church, its administrative governance is not overseen by diocesan bishops, Vatican offices, or any authorities outside its own hierarchical structure.

 

It’s about the Orthodox Church and it’s hopeful unity to Rome’s. Some of you are so blind!

 

Thank you for your clarifying post

 

Flat out wrong.

CM’s disdain for the SSPX is clouding it’s judgement. How they say with a straight face that they can not exercise ministry when they know full well that they received permission from the pope to hear confessions and witness marriage?

You may want to update your info on them.

 

I started to watc video of her speaking in Dublin. When she thanked the TLIG prayer group for "inviting" her, I got a shiver down my spine. Might this woman be forming her own cult?

 

They do not have full canonical status. They do not have permitted faculties to celebrate Mass, thus their Masses are illicit and illegal.

 

Read it again!

This has never been formally changed by the Holy See, in spite of Pope Francis' recent indults allowing the Society to hear confessions — a benefit provided explicitly for the good of the faithful in the Jubilee Year of Mercy, and extended indefinitely.

"You don't always get what you want but you get what you need"!!!

 

Well then, after all these years, those Catholic Bishops who invite her, attend her gatherings, permit her to use Church facilities, allow their priests to attend, meet with her, etc., must be members of that "cult"! Ha! And all of that officially permitted by the Church....as it is up to the Bishop and of course where he is is the Church. Again, people here attempting to overrule the Church while lecturing everyone here to be exact in following the Church's decisions. Go figure.

 

Mind boggling

 

Let me help you with that, see the bold in your quote

Rather obviously they are permitted by the Holy See - of which the pope is the head - to exercise certain ministries. The article that you are quoting from is just that, it is not a magisterial document.

The official document can be found here:

https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2017/04/04/170404d.html

“...the Holy Father decided, for example, to grant all priests of said Society the faculty to validly administer the Sacrament of Penance to the faithful (Letter Misericordia et misera, n.12), such as to ensure the validity and liceity of the Sacrament and allay any concerns on the part of the faithful...”

“the Holy Father, following a proposal by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, has decided to authorize Local Ordinaries the possibility to grant faculties for the celebration of marriages of faithful ...”

They very clearly have faculties for those two sacraments and the faithful can receive them in good conscience since they are both licit.

 

The problems still hang over from the past, however. For many years people went to Confession and the priests did not validly administer that Sacrament of Penance. Just think if you weren’t sure that you received absolution, maybe during your whole life. And how many marriages were invalid during those years as well. Quite problematic.
It seems to me to be quite a hole to climb out of, and then the Masses are illegal, and people go to them. Not quite ideal or really worthy of defense. I realize that people will disagree with me, but to me it seems very simple.