After the General Judgment, every person condemned to Hell will have both body and soul. Until then, the punishment is spiritual. After body and soul are reunited, the suffering will be both spiritual and physical. The punishment will be horrendous for everyone there but more horrendous for some than others. At least that's my understanding. I am open to correction. My earlier comment was in response to the point about the Pope's statement contradicting Our Lady of Fatima. I don't see the contradiction unless, for example, a sin against the 6th Commandment is more serious than a sin against the 1st Commandment.
Well, Our Lady of Fatima showed the children a vision of Hell. Unless my memory is faulty, there were people floating in the flames. In 1917.
Our Lady said that many souls go to Hell. The children saw demons and the souls of the dammed with human form. No mention of bodies as far as I can remember. The soul enters into eternity at death. The body remains on earth where it returns to dust until it is reunited with the soul at the end of time. Unless our newly restored bodies will have no flesh, I don't see how those bodies won't feel physical pain from eternal fire and the worm that never dies. How can bodies that aren't yet in Hell be suffering there? Of course, Heaven and Hell being outside time as we know it (the eternal now) maybe what the children saw were both the bodies and the souls in Hell. Some people refer to the resurrected body as the spiritual body, so maybe the eternal suffering is entirely spiritual. I don't know. What would be the point of reuniting the body with the soul if the body's existence makes no difference to eternal happiness or eternal suffering?
It's a great and profound mystery to be sure. That the soul enters into eternity at death I'm not so sure and I invite correction, edification etc. The reason I say this is a distinction between souls that are admitted to paradise and participate in God's eternity as it were and those who before the general judgement are condemned to hell or go through the various levels of purgatory. It's fascinating stuff and I'm sure there are libraries of Theology on it but I have just not reflected on that specific point before.
Pope Francis is amazing here, 100 points out of a hundred, you just never know. Fair play to him, excellent. Nice to report something nice for a change.
My comment was specifically in relation to Our Lady's statement at Fatima that more souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason. Not much wiggle room there, unless one wishes to question whether Our Lady actually said that or not. Hell is hell. Who cares if there are higher or lower levels, it's still hell and if sins of the flesh can land you there then it's highly irresponsible for a pope to downplay them.
Of course he does. Sins of the flesh are in his opinion small sins. Time for him to change the catechism with regard to homosexuality. If he can do it with the death penalty then everything is up for grabs.
Vatican censors the Pope, Italian bishop debunks Santa: Last Week in the Church with John Allen Jr. - YouTube
I was reading yesterday about the introduction of a new liturgical rite for the newly created ministry of "catechist"; at many points it would be wonderful to give more attention to the formation of this service in the Church; but one question I find pertinent is whether this can be seen as a nod to the more liberal wing of the Church that wanted the ordination of deaconesses. I speak of the specific issue of a liturgical rite for women in the Church. https://www.thecatholictelegraph.co...ssues-guidelines-for-catechist-ministry/78656
Francis took a swipe at those he perceives to be his enemies (you and me) again in his Christmas address to the curia. A surprisingly insightful piece on this by a correspondent from The Times: 'Isolated Pope Lambasts his enemies within the Church'. Opining that he is more popular with the media than the Church. ‘Isolated’ Pope lambasts his enemies within the church | World | The Times
Marie Julie Jehanny prophecy: She mentions a pope who, at the last moment, will reverse his policies and make a solemn appeal to the Clergy. But he will not be obeyed; on the contrary, an Assembly of bishops will demand even greater freedom, declaring that they will no longer obey the Pope. Marie-Julie then goes on to say that the Red Revolution will then break out. She speaks of a "horrible religion" which is to replace the Catholic Faith, and she sees "many, many bishops" embracing this "sacrilegious, infamous religion." Msgr. Fournier, Bishop of Nantes: "The reports that I receive daily on Marie-Julie (Jahenny) show me more and more the action of God on this soul. He grants her graces of an obvious supernatural order. At the same time she grows in virtue and noble sentiments... what she manifests is supernatural... ." (Letter from the Bishop of Nantes to Dr. Imbert-Gourbeyre, 6 June 1875, "La stigmatisation" II pp. 18 et 19)
Somehow I missed these comments. Sorry, Malachi, if I seemed to have ignored your response. I just assumed that the immortal soul has to go somewhere at death and that somewhere can only be Heaven, Hell or Purgatory. I also assumed that there must be something extra when the body and soul are reunited. It is indeed a mystery.
It's not a question of disbelieving the warning of Our Lady of Fatima. I don't disagree with you that the statement undermines what Our Lady told the children at Fatima. It is wrong, however, to say that the Pope's statement was a direct contradiction of Fatima. It wasn't a contradiction. I'm sure the degree of suffering matters to the poor souls in Hell. And if the nature and severity of the sin didn't matter to God there wouldn't be differences in the degrees of suffering. Basically, I agree with your sentiment, but how you expressed it simply wasn't accurate. That matters when we find fault with a Pope.
At St Germain (France), Catholics celebrate Christmas before the closed doors of a church because of the obstinate will of Pope Francis https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/12/at-st-germain-france-catholics.html Celebrating mass outside in the rain
