The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. AED

    AED Powers

    I know! Time is collapsing in on itself. At least that is how it seems to me. There's a great aphorism in Latin about time speeding up as we near the end. Cant quote it.:( I just remember "velcior" in there somewhere. My father used to say "Tempis fugit" Well I think it is fugiting like crazy.
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  2. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Motus in fine velocior

    Time speeds up towards the end.

    Here's an interesting article on the subject
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  3. josephite

    josephite Powers

    It was beautiful to get up this morning and be able to pray the rosary with Dr Marshall!
    An unexpected blessing!
    Offered for the Church and especially for Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.
    Thank you Blizzard
    Sam, Mario, AED and 3 others like this.
  4. josephite

    josephite Powers

    Near the end of the video I think Michael Matt could have been personally addressing some of my questions and some of your questions Sg, he tells us to stick together, to pray and let history determine (and it will determine via the Catholic hierarchy) who pope Frances really is/was and who pope Benedict really is/was.
    Another brilliant video!
    Thank you.
    Blizzard, Carol55, Don_D and 2 others like this.
  5. AED

    AED Powers

  6. AED

    AED Powers

  7. Tanker

    Tanker Archangels

    Boy is America angering the globalists. Wow!

    Please Lord protect DJT, protect America and the world from these demons.

    Time to amp up the prayer again.
  8. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    You know whats strange about all this? Donald Trump is the only person I have ever heard any religious actually encourage their parish to vote for and it happened twice and both of them were Catholic priests.
    Trump is not alone, there are a whole lot of Catholic Americans who stand with him and he knows this. He has made some statements about Catholics in America and their contributions to this country. The Vatican is standing with the EU right along with all the traitors in our own midst in the US govt.
  9. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    So, what happens when Pope Francis urges all Americans not to vote for Trump this year? Am I totally out of line to consider this? Because I don't know about you all but I could easily see him doing such a thing.
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  10. Tanker

    Tanker Archangels

    I think he will do this too. I can see this happening. What is brilliant, is we do NOT have to agree with the Pope on politics. The pope is not even American so go pound sand, in the most respectful way possible of course. The pope hates America. Not Americans per se, but America.

    I remember Fr. Langkit from the Cathedral in Phoenix spoke right before the last presidential election. It was a great homily and he was echoing the Bishop of Phoenix. He didn't name names but he indicated one "party" was promoting evil and one "party" was not. And that it was our duty to promote the Gospel even with our voting. I bet we will hear similar stuff as the year goes on from brave priests. BUt I am afraid the pope and the Vatican really, really do not like DJT.
    AED, Suzanne, Jo M and 3 others like this.
  11. AED

    AED Powers

    I hope he knows that is a sure way to lose $$$. I think American Catholics--the real ones--might surprise him with some real resistance and backlash. Also to be frank I think DJT has a lot of info on bad actors in the Vatican and will not hesitate to go public. But who knows.
    Sam, Tanker, HeavenlyHosts and 2 others like this.
  12. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Such a recommendation would more than likely blow up in his face.
    Sam and Don_D like this.
  13. Adoremus

    Adoremus Archangels

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  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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  15. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    All of the conflicts swirling around were mentioned by Our Lady over and over, and even as recently as last Fall to Sr. Agnes in Japan. I am trying to double up on prayers and sacrifices because the battle does indeed belong to God, and He has already won it on Calvary. I am taking to heart to follow the 2000 year old Magisterium of the Catholic Church. I am not striving to undermine anything or anybody by my efforts, but hopefully Jesus and Mother Mary will use my prayers and good works as They see fit to aid in this battle.
    Tanker, Carol55, DeGaulle and 4 others like this.
  16. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    1P5 Minute #22 - A Message to the Bishops & Cardinals of the Catholic Church - OnePeterFive

    [​IMG]1P5 StaffFebruary 11, 2020

    Today is the 7th anniversary of the announcement of the intention to abdicate by Pope Benedict XVI. In the following 7 years, the crisis in the Church has escalated exponentially, and during that time, one of the most notable things has been the absence of the majority of our bishops & cardinals in speaking out.

    Today, we make an appeal to our shepherds to lead their sheep.

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  17. josephite

    josephite Powers

    We need answers!
    Good on Steve!
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  18. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Apparently, Cardinal Zen still thinks that PF is not the problem o_O

    'The Vatican lost everything, got nothing': An interview with Cardinal Zen
    By Matt Hadro

    Washington D.C., Feb 15, 2020 / 06:00 am (CNA).-

    On Feb. 11, Cardinal Joseph Zen, emeritus bishop of Hong Kong met with Congressional leaders on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C. After that meeting, the cardinal gave an exclusive interview to CNA in which he discussed the Church in China, the Holy See’s agreement with the Communist regime, and his relationship with Pope Francis and the Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin.

    The following is a transcript of the cardinal’s interview with CNA. It has been edited for length and clarity.

    Your Eminence, can you tell us about the situation of the Church in China?

    “More and more, the Church is under persecution [in China]. Both the official Church, and the underground. Actually, the underground is doomed to disappear. Why? Because even the Holy See is not helping. The older bishops are dying, there are less than 30 bishops left in the underground Church, and no new priests being ordained.

    “But we hope that [Chinese Catholics] can keep the faith in their families -- so we have to say, ‘back to the catacombs!’

    “Even in the official church, the faithful are more and more controlled. On the top of the church they tell you to destroy the crosses, inside the church, they put the image of Xi Jinping—maybe not in the center, but in some place. Now they have to have the flag in the church, they have to sing the national anthem.

    “People under 18 years of age are not allowed into churches, not allowed in any religious activity. Christmas is forbidden, in the whole country. Even the bible should be re-translated, according to the Communist orthodoxy. So now we see more and more control on the Church, and there is a really a universal lamentation in the whole Church.

    “Now, I cannot contact directly anybody in China - it’s too dangerous for them. But sometimes people can come to Hong Kong, to see me and they cry, they say ‘what can we do?’ I say ‘What can I do for you? I can do nothing. I have no voice in the Vatican, simply none.

    You have spoken publicly against the Holy See’s relationship with the Chinese government, has this affected your relationship with Pope Francis?

    “The Holy Father Francis shows special affection to me. In interviews, they ask him ‘What about Cardinal Zen?’ and the Pope says ‘He’s a good man.’ …he says ‘maybe he’s a little frightened, his age…’ I say my age? I’m old, I’m 88, but the age helps me not to have any fear. Because I have nothing to gain, nothing to lose.

    The situation in China is very bad. And the source is not the pope. The pope doesn’t know much about China. And he may have some sympathy for the Communists, because in South America, the Communists are good guys, they suffer for social justice. But not the [Chinese] Communists. They are persecutors. So the situation is, humanly speaking, hopeless for the Catholic Church: Because we can always expect the Communists to persecute the Church, but now [faithful Catholics] don’t get any help from the Vatican. The Vatican is helping the government, surrendering, giving everything into their hands.

    “So I’m—I can sincerely say that I am not—I think the pope is okay. But I’m fighting [Cardinal Pietro] Parolin Because the bad things come from him. From him. He’s still so, so, so optimistic about the so-called ‘Ostpolitik’, the compromise. But you cannot compromise: they want complete surrender - that’s Communism.”

    Your Eminence, after the 2018 agreement between the Holy See and China on the appointment of bishops, members of the underground Church seem to have come under renewed government pressure, has this been your experience?

    “I think the most evident case is about the one bishop in Fujian, Bishop Guo.

    “Now, they legitimize seven illegitimate bishops -- schismatic bishops, excommunicated bishops. But it happened that, in two of those seven dioceses, there are also two legitimate underground bishops. [Rome] asked them to step down. Now both stepped down, okay?

    But the one in Fujian was promised that he would be recognized as auxiliary bishop, downgraded, but still bishop. So he accepted. But then…[the Chinese authorities] say 'no, we have not yet recognized you as bishop. You have to sign the document.' And the document says, ‘I have accepted the independent Church.’ Guo said no, I cannot sign that, so he’s not yet recognized as a bishop.

    “Now, recently, the news came that he is on the street, because they said 'your building is not safe. It is against the fire regulations.'

    “I said that may be an exaggeration, that he is on the street. But actually it’s true, because the government doesn’t allow anybody to accept him. Now in that diocese, the underground Church is of 80% of the priests and faithful in the diocese. The official Church only has a small number of priests, and the bishop, who was the real bishop, is now not even recognized as an auxiliary. It’s terrible.

    “So [in this deal] the Vatican lost everything, and got nothing. I cannot understand why they would do such thing. I’m sure that the Pope has the good intention to gain some space, some breathing space, and maybe one day you can get something better. Okay. But Parolin, the Secretary of State, he knows very well who the Communists are: there’s no way to bargain with the Communists, you get nothing.

    “I always say, can you imagine St. Joseph going to bargain with Herod to save the infant Jesus? No way, no way. He just wants to kill him.”

    (emphasis in red is mine -SgC)

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  19. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I think Cardinal Zen is right not to make Bergoglio the issue. The latter doesn't deserve that much attention, which would only make it a distraction. PF is already more than enough of a circus, because his dearest wish is to be the centre of all attention. This is about the betrayal of Cardinal Zen's flock. He's looking for help, not to lay blame, which can be done later, at our leisure.
  20. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    The same week that Sec. of State Mike Pompeo spoke of China possibly giving money/making deals with various US governors and leaders from around the world, Cardinal Zen states that the Vatican got nothing for the deal with China. I can't help wondering if that may not actually be the case.
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