The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    So say's a religious leader inside a wall with around the clock guards :rolleyes:
     
  2. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Social Justice is not a Gospel Value.

    Charity is.
     
    Heidi, Tanker, HeavenlyHosts and 2 others like this.
  3. AED

    AED Powers

    Well said.
     
    HeavenlyHosts likes this.
  4. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    A bit confusing once again and Pope Francis confirmed that the death penalty has been removed from the Catechism (?).

    upload_2019-4-1_9-23-51.png
    Vatican | Mar. 31, 2019 | http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...nger-in-christian-countries-pope-francis-says
    Freedom of Conscience Is in Danger in ‘Christian countries,’ Pope Francis Says
    Francis said that Muslims are progressing in the freedom of conscience and freedom of worship, however some countries 'do not understand well or do not grow as well as others.'
    Courtney Grogan/CNA

    ROME — Pope Francis decried the regression of freedom of conscience in “Christian countries” during an in-flight press conference Sunday, telling reporters on his return trip from Morocco, “let’s not accuse Muslims.”

    When asked by a French reporter about a criminal law in Morocco that prohibits encouraging a Muslim to convert to another religion, Francis responded, “Let’s not accuse Muslims. Let’s accuse also ourselves.”

    “Today, we Christians have the danger that some governments will take away our freedom of conscience, which is the first step toward freedom of worship,” Pope Francis said March 31.

    “Think of the Christian doctors and hospital institutions that do not have the right of conscientious objection, for example, for euthanasia. How? The Church has moved on and you Christian countries go backwards?” he told the French reporter.

    The Pope explained that religious freedom has developed over time in Muslim world and in the history of the Catholic Church.

    “Freedom always develops, it grows. Think of us Christians 300 years ago, if there was this freedom that we have today. Faith grows in awareness, in the ability to understand itself,” Francis said.

    “For example, today we have removed the death penalty from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Three hundred years ago, heretics were burned alive,” he said.

    “The Church has grown in moral conscience, respect for the person, and the freedom of worship,” Francis explained. “We too must continue to grow.”

    “There are people, Catholics, who do not accept what the Second Vatican Council said about freedom of worship, freedom of conscience,” Pope Francis said. “We have this problem.”

    Francis said that Muslims are progressing in the freedom of conscience and freedom of worship, however some countries “do not understand well or do not grow as well as others.”

    “In Morocco, there is this growth,” he emphasized. “I can say that in Morocco there is freedom of worship, there is religious freedom.”

    During his two-day trip to Morocco, Pope Francis signed the “Jerusalem declaration” with the King of Morocco Mohammed VI March 30. The joint statement called for Jerusalem to remain “multi-religious” and a “city of peace.”

    Pope Francis also spoke about religious freedom and freedom of conscience in his address to the Moroccan people in their capital, Rabat.

    “Freedom of conscience and religious freedom — which is not limited to freedom of worship alone, but allows all to live in accordance with their religious convictions — are inseparably linked to human dignity,” Pope Francis said.

    According to the U.S. State Department, Morocco is more than 99% Sunni Muslim. Islam is the religion of the state, and their criminal code prohibits undermining Islam or proselytizing.​

    Here are some comments about the article, https://twitter.com/EdwardPentin/status/1112598447419506688 .

    Full text of Pope Francis' in-flight press conference from Rabat Mar 31, 2019
    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...s-in-flight-press-conference-from-rabat-24970
    Edited to add:

    The following article is related to this post.

    Blogs | Apr. 1, 2019
    What Did Pope Francis Mean By His Remarks About ‘Proselytism?’
    When read in context, Francis’ words were not as controversial as many media reports seemed to imply.
    Edward Pentin | http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/proselytism
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  5. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Dear Pope Francis. Europe is no longer Christian. It is post Christian & pagan in its culture & offers Canaanite child-sacrifice. Europe is actually in complete spiritual darkness Holy Father so how about consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary to usher in the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary?

    Please use the keys of the Kingdom to defeat this ever increasing darkness. Otherwise, we will all perish in the Gulags even before God destroys this corrupt and evil age with fire from the sky.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  6. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    I disregard everything this pope says and does, because he came into the papal office with a decidedly anti-catholic agenda masqueraded as a "new way" based on mercy and the "spirit of vatican2".
     
  7. Jo M

    Jo M Powers

    I think it is high time for PF to practice what he preaches, and set an example. "Holy Father, tear down your wall".
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  8. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    In a message of June 26, 2014, (Our Lady of Zaro), Our Lady allegedly said,
    "Children, pray much for Pope Francis. He is very saddened by all that surrounds him; hard times await him...Pray, pray, pray! First all these and many things will have to happen, and finally My Immaculate Heart will triumph."
    Then on Dec. 8, 2016, Our Lady gave this message, "The Church will be attacked. There will be a period of great doubt on men's part. Many will turn away from her, but then everything will shine and shine more than before." Our Lady then took off Her mantle and put it on the Church. The seer then saw a great light and felt a strong sense of peace.
     
    Patty, RoryRory and Carol55 like this.
  9. AED

    AED Powers

    This is so spot on We should all sign this as a solemn petition. Every practicing Catholic in the world. Too big to be ignored! It's a dream I know but a nice thought.
     
    Beth B, Carol55, DeGaulle and 4 others like this.
  10. Tanker

    Tanker Powers

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    It is truly hard to take these airplane interviews seriously. I just find myself rolling my eyes and adding another Hail Mary to the list of Hail Mary's I pray for the Pope. I think the Vicar should clean up the filth in the Church before he attempts to clean up the filth in another country. Mt 7:3
     
    Beth B and Jo M like this.
  11. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    He seemingly regards himself as a potential world political leader, in possession of solutions for the most long-lasting and intractable social and economic problems. Is he one who will accept the offer of stones for bread?

    Does he not realise that the worst thing one can inflict upon a poor country is the emigration of its people? It cements the status quo. Many countries that are poor have been so due to under-population, rather than the opposite. Of course, there are other reasons for under-development, such as the monopoly of resources by oligarchies and lack of education.

    It is highly debatable whether development, as experienced in the Western World, is actually a worthwhile aspiration. Cardinal Sarah doesn't think the poverty of his own country, as opposed to outright destitution, is such a bad thing. The development of the West has become the inevitable cause of its corruption and ultimate decline, as has happened to all such civilisations.

    There is another contradiction in a pope who embraces the 'climate change' ideology advocating the development of all countries in the world. If, on the other hand, his idea of correcting economic imbalances is one of soaking the wealthy countries in order to redistribute all wealth equally to all, in Procrustean fashion, this is something that can only be done once and, since it inherently eliminates all wealthier countries, who is to carry the can when the next crisis unavoidably emerges?

    Utopianism is not an easy philosophy when taken beyond the mental sphere. Thankfully, this Pope has little political or economic power. The only bright side is that the more time he spends lending advice to 'save the world', the less he has to devote to Catholic doctrine.
     
    Beth B, Tanker, Carol55 and 2 others like this.
  12. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    You must be a mind reader. I was just about to type a post saying that the bright side of the Jesuits' preoccupation with saving the planet leaves the field open for orthodox priests to concentrate on saving souls. (This being Lent, I'm confining my comment to the Jesuit order).

    As my mother always said, God never closes a door without opening a window.
     
    Beth B, Carol55, DeGaulle and 2 others like this.
  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

  14. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

  15. padraig

    padraig Powers


    Its a bit like saying, 'It's for you but not for others'. A recipe for the death of the Faith in Morocco. The iIans will LOVE him for this.

    Can you imagine a Muslim Iman saying to people say in France or the USA, 'Be a Muslim but don;t try to convert people. Don't make waves? Could you imagine St Peter saying to the Early Roman first Christians, 'Don;t try to convert these Pagans, don't make waves?'

    Quo vadis, Francis?'

     
    Beth B likes this.
  16. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The Pope of Laodicea.
     
    HeavenlyHosts likes this.
  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Its a bit like a couple who get married and decide they are not going to have children. By doing so they pronounce a death sentence on their marriage.

    Pope Francis has pronounced a Death Sentence on the Catholic Church in Morocco. Just as he already pronounced a Death Sentence on the Church in China.
     
    Beth B and djmoforegon like this.
  18. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Remember, Padraig, that God spoke first. Conversions are the Holy Spirit's department.
     
    Don_D likes this.
  19. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Pope Francis is in the habit of equating conversion, evangelism, and proselytism. Proselytism is a form of coercion; the other two were commanded by Our Lord!

    Yet the Pope continues to primarily use the "p" word :rolleyes::

    “The Church grows not through proselytism but by attraction,” Francis said to applause.

    Lord have mercy!
     
    Carol55 and DeGaulle like this.
  20. padraig

    padraig Powers

    [​IMG]
     

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