The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Hey it's made of sand!

    Just like all this new "theology".

    Perhaps this is an example of matchng subject with media.
     
    AED, sterph, HeavenlyHosts and 2 others like this.
  2. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Imagine what Christ suffered knowing that Judas was his betrayer from the very beginning. And yet He commands us to Love our enemies and not to do them harm but to be a light to all of them. Come Jesus! We trust in YOU!
     
    AED, Agnes rose and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  3. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    He is on the sidelines waiting to renew the Church - right now, He is weeding the garden!
     
    Blizzard, AED, SgCatholic and 4 others like this.
  4. padraig

    padraig Powers

  5. djmoforegon

    djmoforegon Powers

    A more complete photo of the Nativity scene.

    [​IMG]
     
    Patty, AED, Praetorian and 3 others like this.
  6. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Well, WAY better than last year's fiasco. It's traditional ! Yay!
     
    Patty, AED, Byron and 1 other person like this.
  7. Adoremus

    Adoremus Powers

    It’s beautiful. But I’m wondering, why sand? Why such a fragile, transitory medium?
     
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  8. djmoforegon

    djmoforegon Powers

    I have no clue. It is absolutely beautiful but I hope there is a process that makes it a permanent sculpture.
     
  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I saw where it said “ in the tradition of the Dolomites” snd it said it was near Venice (origin)
    I read that in the small print at the bottom of the post of Pope Francis with the children
     
  10. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Pope Francis Undermines Vatican Diplomatic Immunity with USCCB Intervention
    [​IMG]
    AP Photo/Alessandra Tarantino
    15 Nov 2018 | https://www.breitbart.com/faith/201...-diplomatic-immunity-with-usccb-intervention/
    In ordering the U.S. bishops to abstain from voting on measures aimed at addressing clerical sex abuse, Pope Francis may have inadvertently performed the most consequential and costly act of his papacy.

    The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) intended to vote on two measures responding to the ongoing sex abuse crisis in its annual fall meeting, which concluded in Baltimore on Wednesday.

    A last-minute intervention, however, from the Vatican’s Congregation for Bishops instructed the USCCB to stand down and to await a meeting of global episcopal conference leadership convoked by Pope Francis for February.

    The Vatican’s direct intervention into the bishops’ governance would seem to undermine the Holy See’s prime pillar of legal defense when charged with negligence in dealing with sex abuse, namely, the relative independence of Catholic dioceses from Vatican oversight.

    When the 2010 suit O’Bryan vs. the Holy See sought to depose Pope Benedict XVI in a U.S. court, Vatican lawyer Jeffrey Lena employed a tightly reasoned argument before the U.S. district court in Kentucky, which hinged upon demonstrating that the Vatican was not responsible for the U.S. bishops’ policy on protecting children, and nor was it responsible for day-to-day operational policy.

    The plaintiffs’ lawyer William McMurray believed that his case had class-action potential, hoping it could also benefit the thousands of victims of child sex abuse across the whole of the United States, seeking enormous sums in damages directly from Rome.

    Ordinarily, under the 1976 Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, foreign governments have immunity from prosecution in U.S. courts. However, there are nine exceptions to this immunity, one of which is the so-called “tort exception” clause.

    Two years before the Kentucky hearing, a federal appeals court had said that the case could proceed under the tort exemption to the 1976 act, if it could be demonstrated that U.S. bishops were following official Vatican policy.

    This is what makes the Vatican’s eleventh-hour intervention in Baltimore so potentially momentous. It seems to willing wave aside the carefully crafted legal boundaries that the Vatican has energetically used to defend itself from international prosecution.

    The failure of the U.S. bishops to challenge the order from the Vatican’s Congregation for Bishops suggests that the bishops are indeed answerable to the Holy See on operational matters dealing with sex abuse policy.

    This tacit admission will almost certainly have massive ramifications in future litigation.

    Considering the rise in abuse claims facing the Church in the United States, it is difficult to imagine that the Vatican will not see a dramatic increase in legal actions, which could open the Holy See to billions of dollars in claims.

    The O’Bryan action was withdrawn in 2011, in part because 243 abuse victims had already reached a direct settlement with the Archdiocese of Louisville and in part because of the precedent of earlier court rulings recognising the Holy See’s immunity from prosecution.

    According to research compiled by Bishop-Accountability.org, to date 15 U.S. dioceses have been declared bankrupt following the post-Boston settlements, with post-1980s settlements totaling over $3 billion.

    The Vatican’s apparent abandonment of a long-standing principle of legal defense has potentially game-changing consequences for the future.

    The direct Vatican intervention in the U.S. bishops’ response to the sex abuse crisis could easily be the most consequential act of Pope Francis’ papacy, which is not precisely the legacy his followers would wish.

    Benjamin Harnwell is director of the Rome-based Dignitatis Humanae Institute. Follow him on Twitter @ben_harnwell

    FaithLondon / EuropeCatholic Churchclerical sex abusePope FrancisUSCCBVatican

    ***

    Chilean Cardinal Called to Testify on Abuse Case Leaves Papal Advisory Committee
    Cardinal Francisco Javier Errázuriz Ossa, a close adviser of Pope Francis, has left the Pope’s body of cardinal advisers.
    CNA/EWTN News Nov. 16, 2018 | http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...tify-on-abuse-case-leaves-papal-advisory-comm
    SANTIAGO, Chile — A close adviser of Pope Francis has left the “C9,” the Pope’s body of cardinal advisers, as he faces charges of covering up clerical sex abuse in his home country of Chile.

    Cardinal Francisco Javier Errázuriz Ossa, archbishop emeritus of Santiago, told Radio Cooperativa that he has officially left the council of cardinals and noted that it was not a resignation but the end of his term. He said he traveled to Rome to bid farewell to Pope Francis and to thank him.

    The announcement came at the same time that a Chilean court said it is summoning the cardinal on charges that he protected Father Jorge Laplagne, who is accused of sexual abuse of minors.

    Victims of sex abuse have also filed a complaint with the Chilean court against Cardinal Errazuriz for “false testimony” in the case of former priest Fernando Karadima, who has been found guilty by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith of the sexual abuse of minors.

    The cardinal is also accused of “misinforming” Pope Francis on the role that Bishop Juan de la Cruz Barros of Madrid, bishop emeritus of Osorno, played in covering up the abuse of Karadima. Bishop Barros has also been accused of covering up of the abuse of minors committed by Father Pedro Quiroz.

    For a time, Pope Francis publicly defended Bishop Barros, calling the accusations against him “calumny.” He apologized during a meeting with Chilean sex-abuse victims for being “part of the problem” and for originally dismissing their concerns.

    In May, all of the Chilean bishops presented their resignations to the Holy Father en masse. Thus far, seven of those resignations have been accepted by Francis.

    In July of this year, the Chilean prosecutor’s office released a list of 266 persons who were victims of clerical sex abuse as minors, a number that the country’s bishops called “alarming.”

    Prosecutor Sergio Moya could not confirm when Cardinnal Errázuriz was scheduled to appear before the court.

    Juan Carlos Cruz, a victim of Karadima who met privately with Pope Francis in May, told Cooperativa that it was “very good news” for abuse survivors that Cardinal Errázuriz was called before the courts. He added that he was “not surprised at all” that the cardinal had been accused of mishandling abuse cases.

    ***

    PS - I'm going to try holding any additional comments about the Vatican Nativity until I see the finished product.
     
  11. Agnes rose

    Agnes rose Archangels

    I just wish they would put him in the nativity !!!
     
    AED likes this.
  12. Bernadette C

    Bernadette C Principalities

    You are probably right. But
    I am not happy about this.
    For one it elevates this pope way too high. And him gathering the children sitting at his feet, it isnt a good look.
     
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  13. Bernadette C

    Bernadette C Principalities

    I had a gathering with the girls I went to school with. We are now all in our 50's.
    They have all recieved the sacraments.
    Two of them spoke with such hate of the clergy.
    I then tried to tell them it was a homosexual problem in the church and we have been infiltrated.
    But the response was they 'didnt care if they were f...king each other.' In fact they thought it was a good idea if thats what they needed.

    This is exactly what the media and how the world think.
    Homosexuality is now ok. This is why the clergy are so bold about it now. Being homosexual is so 'in'.

    No. My old school friends no longer follow the faith. In fact they have no idea about it. They dont know what adultery is nor the sin of homosexuality. All is good in this world.

    The Vatican Has Fallen, as it can not even show the world the moral values we were given through our Gospel.
     
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  14. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Bernadette, its all part of the "Church becoming very small, but very holy" as Pope Benedict said back as a priest in 1969. I think we all know your sadness, it is in our families, relatives, friends and unfortunately in our Churches, often times led by the pastors. We need to pray for all of the above like never before. The crack of light is getting dimmer and dimmer by the day, but we know the battle is not over. In fact it is only at the beginning of its evil days. We will do as St. Padre Pio said and "pray, hope and don't worry", which some moments is much easier said then done.
     
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  15. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Mathew 24:12
    [12] And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold.

    It is a sign of our times. Apathy and indifference are the opposite of charity. Iniquity abounds. I know, I used to have this very attitude sadly. Beyond the impact to our society and children's lives by saying and believing such a thing it is certainly not loving God or ones neighbor let alone brother or sister to take such an attitude towards another.
    In fact, it is part despair, part lack of courage, and a fear of suffering I think that drives this blase' attitude because we do not wish to suffer the inevitable response of being labelled judgemental by people we wish to like us. We must be willing to suffer in love of others and to do that we must pray that God grants us this Grace.

    My fear is that, the worm that dieth not has plenty to say to me about this and I will have plenty of time to suffer it should I give in to thinking I will not be held accountable for attitudes and beliefs such as this.
     
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  16. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

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  17. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes. Truly scary.
     
  18. AED

    AED Powers

    Bernadette is experiencing what many of us have. The Church pews are filled with many such modernists. Many of them older--raised in the Church when it still spoke clear truth--but now a big shrug. There is --i observe--a remnant that is passionate about the faith and are prayer warriors but there is as St Paul Fortold those who have a kind of religion but deny its power.
    Don I share your apprehensions. I often stay quiet out of fear. I have a family who for the most part are okay with the situation. I don't know what to do quite honestly except pray. A very good even holy priest I know used to always exhort us to speak the truth in love. But very recently he said no-- not now. Words are useless. You will drive them further away. Prayer and sacrifice are the only things now.
     
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  19. AED

    AED Powers

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  20. AED

    AED Powers

    Sand!!! How symbolic is such sand.
     
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