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The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    You're like us all, walking this tightrope between born-and-bred loyalty and obedience on the one hand, and incomprehensible shock and horror at statements and events from the Vatican and many princes of the Church. Yours is probably the best path, to pray and simply trust in Christ. Curiosity and bloody-minded argumentativeness are weaknesses of mine.
     
  2. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Since this thread is speaking of the fall of the Vatican and thus many clerics and laity, I will post a message to Father Gobbi in regards to an admonition that our Lady gave to him in regards to the breaking of the 6th commandment almost 30 years ago.

    The Angel of the First Plague
    October 13, 1989

    "You are recalling today my last apparition, which took place at Fatima on the 13th of October, 1917, confirmed by the miracle of the sun. Look more and more to the Woman Clothed with the Sun, who has the task of preparing the Church and humanity for the coming of the great Day of the Lord.

    The times of the decisive battle have come. The hour of the great tribulation has now descended upon the world, because the angels of the Lord are being sent, with their plagues, to chastise the earth.

    How many times have I urged you to walk along the road of mortification of the senses, of mastery over the passions of modesty, of good example, of purity and of holiness! But humanity has not accepted my urging and has continued to disobey the sixth commandment of the law of the Lord which prescribes that one shall not commit impure acts.

    On the contrary, it has sought to exalt such a transgression and to put it forward as the acquisition of human value and a new way of exercising one's own personal freedom. Thus today it has reached the point of legitimating as good all the sins of impurity. It has begun to corrupt the consciences of little children and of youth, bringing them to the conviction that impure acts committed by oneself are no longer sins; that relations before marriage between those engaged is licit and good; that families may behave as they please and may also make use of the various means of birth control. And they have come to the justification and the exaltation of impure acts against nature and even to the proposing of laws which put homosexual cohabitation on a par with marriage.

    Never as today have immorality, impurity, and obscenity been so continually propagandized, through the press and all the means of social communication. Above all, television has become the perverse instrument of a daily bombardment with obscene images, directed to corrupt the purity of the mind and of the heart of all. The places of entertainment-in particular the cinema and the discotheques-have become places of public profanation of one's human and christian dignity.

    This is the time when the Lord our God is being continually and publicly offended by sins of the flesh. Holy scripture has already warned you that those who sin by means of the flesh find their just punishment in the same flesh. And so the time has come when the Angel of the first plague is passing over the world, that it might be chastised according to the will of God.

    The Angel of the first plague cuts-into the flesh of those who have allowed themselves to be signed with the mark of the monster on the forehead and on the hand and have adored his image-with a painful and malignant wound, which causes those who have been stricken by it to cry out in desperation. This wound represents the physical pain which strikes the body by means of grace and insurable maladies. The painful and malignant would is a plague for all humanity, to day so perverted, which has built up and atheistic and materialistic civilization and has made the quest for pleasure the supreme aim of human life. Some of my poor children have been stricken by it because of their sins of impurity and their disordered morals and they carry within their own selves the weight of the evil they have done. Others, on the other hand, have been stricken, even though they are good and innocent; and so their suffering serves for the salvation of many of the wicked, in virtue of the solidarity which unites you all.

    The fist plague is that of malignant tumors and every kind of cancer, against which science can do nothing notwithstanding its progress in every field, maladies which spread more and more and strike the human body, devastating it with most painful and malignant wounds. Beloved children, think of the spread of these incurable maladies, through every part of the world, and of the millions of deaths which they are bringing about.

    The first plague is the new malady of AIDS,
    which strikes above all my poor children who are victims of drugs, of vices and of impure sins against nature.

    Your heavenly Mother wants to be a help, a support, a comfort and a source of hope for all, in these times when humanity is being stricken by this first plague. For this, I urge you all to walk along the road of fasting, of mortification and of penance.

    Of little children I ask that they grow in the virtue of purity and, in this difficult journey, let them be assisted by their parents and teachers.

    Of the youth I ask that they form themselves in the control of the passions through prayer and a life of union with me, and that they renounce going to the cinema and the discotheques, where there exists the grave and continuous danger of offending this virtue which is so dear to my Immaculate Heart.

    Of engaged couples I ask that they abstain from all relations before marriage.

    Of Christian husbands and wives I ask that they form themselves in the exercise of conjugal chastity and never make use of artificial means of birth control, as they follow the teachings of Christ, which the Church still puts forth today with enlightened wisdom.

    How very much I ask of priests the scrupulous observance of celibacy and, of religious, the faithful and austere practice of their vow of chastity!

    To my poor children, stricken by the first plague of the painful and malignant wound, I present myself as a merciful Mother, who assuages and comforts, who brings to hope and to peace. Of these I ask that they offer their sufferings in a spirit of reparation, of purification and of sanctification. Above all, for them my Immaculate Heart becomes the most welcome refuge and the sure road that leads them to the God of salvation and of joy.

    In this, my heavenly garden, all will be consoled and encouraged, while I myself personally and lovingly take care to give consolation in suffering and, if it be in the will of the Lord, to offer the first of healing.

    Consequently, in this time when humanity is being stricken by the first plague, I urge you all to look to me, your heavenly Mother, that you may be comforted and assisted."
     
  3. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Barros case, Scicluna’s delicate Chilean mission begins
    The Latin American Churches follow with concern the events of the Bishop of Osorno
    [​IMG]

    Monsignor Charles Scicluna

    Pubblicato il 12/02/2018
    LUIS BADILLA

    According to Jaime Coiro, deacon spokesman for the Chilean episcopate, Monsignor Charles Scicluna, the Pope’s envoy for the issue that the Chilean press calls “affaire Karadima-Barros”, will begin his work in the capital of the South American country on Tuesday, February 20 in the seat of the Nunciature. The arrival of the Archbishop of La Valletta (Malta) is scheduled for the 19th from New York where the Clergyman will meet next Saturday 17 Juan Carlos Cruz, one of the three victims of abuse by the priest Fernando Karadima.

    The other two complainants, José Andrés Murillo and James Hamilton, will be received and heard in Chile. Scicluna should complete his delicate task in about four days and therefore, will probably be in Rome to deliver to Pope Francis a first report, already Monday 26 February.

    The Holy Father’s envoy, according to what was announced in a Vatican communiqué at the time of his nomination, on Tuesday 30 January, will have to deal specifically with the so-called “Juan Barros case”, bishop of Osorno, accused by Cruz, Murillo and Hamilton, of having been present on some occasions when Father Karadima was abusing them. In fact, the Communiqué of the Holy See says, “Following recently received information regarding the case of H.E. Msgr. Juan de la Cruz Barros Madrid, Bishop of Osorno (Chile), the Holy Father Francis has arranged for H.E. Msgr. Charles J. Scicluna, Archbishop of Malta and President of the College for the examination of appeals (in matters of delicta graviora) at the Ordinary Session of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to go to Santiago de Chile to hear those who have expressed their willingness to submit elements in their possession”.

    As is well known, the appointment of this special envoy is a decision of the Pope following the controversy and protests raised after some of his statements during his Chilean trip, which he later explained and commented during the press conference on the plane returning from South America.

    Francis, in a long and articulated answer to a question from a Chilean journalist, at a certain point stressed, “we have studied and studied the Barros case, and there is no evidence, and that is what I meant to say: I have no evidence to condemn. And, if I condemned without evidence or moral certainty, I would commit a crime as a bad judge. But there is another thing I want to say. the Pope added, “Barros will stay at his post if I do not find a way to condemn him. I cannot condemn him without - I do not want to say proof – if I have no evidence. And there are many ways to get evidence. Clear? Great”.

    Scicluna’s delicate task must therefore be seen in this precise context and nothing else. It is not true, as we read in some Latin American newspapers, that Scicluna will reopen the “Karadima affair”, which has already been definitively sanctioned by both the Holy See and the Chilean courts. It is clear and evident that the Pope considers it necessary to clarify the Bishop’s position because, in short, since he appointed him ordinary diocesan of Osorno, a significant part of the ecclesial community does not accept him, refuses him and fights him. A few days ago, on February 2, while Monsignor Barros was celebrating Mass in the mission of Rahuè on the occasion of the feast of Candlemas, he was interrupted several times with screams asking for his renunciation. Many faithful and pilgrims, as soon as they realized that the celebrant was Barros, left the sanctuary.

    Therefore, there are two different yet closely linked issues: on one hand, the three survivors’ truth against that of the bishop, who declares himself innocent, a victim of persecution, and on the other hand, at least half of the diocesan community members that refuses Barros’ appointment since January 2015. For the past three years, therefore, there has been an unbearable climate in the diocese and this is part of the “Barros affair”. No diocese can sustain such a controversial, grumpy and sometimes violent climate for a long time, since often, clashes break out between the faithful, who challenge the Bishop, and the police who must protect him.

    Before the departure, it was known and openly said that Pope Francis’ visit to Chile would have been “difficult”. Many people feared striking failures. In the end, the outcome is clear if one looks at the journey with honesty and transparency. The Pope’s visit was beautiful and from the pastoral point of view it was encouraging and involving. In Chile, the Pope offered some very high moments of his Magisterium, for they were courageous, wide-ranging and profound. Between him and the Chilean Catholics, empathy and mutual closeness was discovered and his word truly reached the hearts of many. The negative points are few but heavy: the first concerns the case of Bishop Barros, the second concerns the paralysis that seems to block the Chilean Church, unable even to benefit from the presence of Pope Francis, well liked and accepted despite what those who opposed the visit predicted, and finally, the cordial coldness of the outgoing government of Mrs. Bachelet who, just these days, withdrew her ambassador to the Holy See.

    In theory, the diplomat was supposed to stay until his successor was appointed by the new president, Sebastián Piñera, who took office on 11 March. After a little more than a month after the Pope’s visit, Chile remained without a representative at the Apostolic See. To many in Chile, this decision seemed like a “desaire” (discourtesy) towards the Pope.

    Scicluna’s mission goes beyond the Bishop Barros affair. His actions, elaborations, investigations and conclusions will necessarily be projected on the entire and future life of the Chilean Church, in need of great aid, solidarity and closeness, on condition of her awakening. This requires urgent and courageous self-critical action.

    It is necessary to rewind the Chilean ecclesial life of at least 35 or 40 years, decades in which a deadly woodworm has overtaken her body, that of power, conformism, weakness in the face of abuse (with underestimations and cover ups) and above all, that of clerical arrogance that reduces the people of God to claques of ecclesial and ecclesiastical power groups.

    http://www.lastampa.it/2018/02/12/v...ion-begins-BOcRZPNPn8tCOcdRzMoasI/pagina.html
     
  4. padraig

    padraig New Member


    'It is clear and evident that the Pope considers it necessary to clarify the Bishop’s position because, in short, since he appointed him ordinary diocesan of Osorno, a significant part of the ecclesial community does not accept him, refuses him and fights him. A few days ago, on February 2, while Monsignor Barros was celebrating Mass in the mission of Rahuè on the occasion of the feast of Candlemas, he was interrupted several times with screams asking for his renunciation. Many faithful and pilgrims, as soon as they realized that the celebrant was Barros, left the sanctuary.'


    What a grave, grave scandal. I can't even bear to write about it, it is so awful.
     
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  5. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    This is hearsay, rather than a direct quotation from Pope Francis, but it is very disturbing (bolding mine):

    "In the meeting, the pope jokingly likened this to the way the Holy Trinity functions. “Inside the Holy Trinity they’re all arguing behind closed doors,” Cuda says Francis told them, “but on the outside they give the picture of unity.”"

    From Crux:

    https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/03/25/woman-knows-read-pope-francis/


    Do these people ever think things through? Truth would become subject to the whim of the dominant Person at any given time. Utterly absurd. And absolutely heretical. Of course, this harridan may be misquoting our pope, or even lying...

    The function of these 1,500 (!) theologians is the exchange of ideas. The motivation appears to be to come up with the most far-out idea possible. Madness.
     
  6. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    As clear a case of whistling past the graveyard as one could find. Has anyone seen documented evidence that the Chilean trip was going to be “difficult”? If so, it certainly received little ante facto emphasis. They expect us to accept that this catastrophe "was beautiful and from the pastoral point of view it was encouraging and involving". Already, the Chilean Church is being set up as the 'fall guy'. And these people have the nerve to accuse the Chileans of "...power, conformism, weakness in the face of abuse (with underestimations and cover ups)".

    The dishonesty, arrogance and hubris is breath-taking.

    Again, we must express our gratitude to David for providing us with so much irrefutable documentary evidence of the wholesale corruption that currently besets the Vatican.
     
  7. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    And there's this (I hope this isn't too stomach-churning, but this is what's happening):

    [​IMG]

    DARE WE JOIN THE DOTS?
    • Pope calls Chilean abuse victims spreaders of calumny and says no evidence/proof has been given him.
    • Despite Cardinal O'Malley personally giving the Pope a letter offering evidence.
    • Now it seems the CDF made a recommendation that Bishop Barros should be removed.
    • The Pope personally removed from the CDF 3 priests concerned with investigating child abuse.
    • .When Cdl Mueller asks the Pope for an explanation, he is told 'I am the Pope' and the audience ends.
    • Scicluna, the CDF abuse prosecutor, had already been 'promoted' to be Archbishop of Malta
    • Since the end of last year the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors has been allowed to fall into abeyance.
    • He has surrounded himself in the Council of 9 with those who have denied abuse like Cdl Maradiaga who described the abuse crisis as a 'Jewish media conspiracy' or more to the point Barros' defender and the Chilean Archbishop Emeritus of Santiago Francisco Javier Errázuriz Ossa, known locally as "the Sandbag" because of his failure to act on abuse.
    • He has also honoured notorious coverers up of abuse like Cardinals Daneels and Mahoney, who seem to have been prominent in his election.
    • During this Pontificate aberrant sexuality seems to be promoted.
    • The report produced on the 'Gay Mafia' seems to be ignored.
      • Accounts of his own handling of abuse in Buenos Aires seem to be mixed.


      http://marymagdalen.blogspot.ie/

     
  8. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Look at the funders of this event:

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...amoris-laetitia-seminars-for-us-bishops-38684

    Cardinal Cupich launches Amoris Laetitia seminars for US bishops

    Denver, Colo., Feb 12, 2018 / 04:05 pm (
    CNA).- The Archbishop of Chicago has invited some U.S. bishops to a series of conferences on the 2016 apostolic exhortation Amoris Laetitia. The seminars will be held at three Catholic colleges later this month.

    According to a letter obtained by Catholic News Agency, the meetings, dubbed “New Momentum Conferences on Amoris Laetitia,” are designed to offer a “tailor-made program that goes from why Amoris Laetitia provides New Momentum for Moral Formation and Pastoral Practice to how to provide formative pastoral programs.”

    “The aim is to gather fifteen to twenty Bishops to have a conversation with the aid of theologians on the related topics,” the letter said.

    The letter, written by Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago, explains that the conferences are modeled after a seminar of bishops and theologians discussing Amoris Laetitia held at Boston College in October 2017.

    “The seminar treated the full document giving particular focus to its reception in the multi-cultural and diverse environment that characterizes the Church in the United States,” Cardinal Cupich wrote.

    “Both the bishops and the theologians universally agreed that our two-day seminar was an exercise in synodality, a walking together in which the Church both taught and listened. In fact, in keeping with the counsel of Pope Francis at the start of the 2014 synod, the Boston College participants spoke with candor and boldness, parrhesia, but they also listened with humility,” the letter explained.

    The letter said that Cardinal Kevin Farrell, Prefect of the Dicastery on Laity, Family and Life, encouraged and endorsed the upcoming conferences, which will be held at Boston College, the University of Notre Dame, and Santa Clara University.

    The upcoming seminars come in the wake of a speech given by Cardinal Cupich Feb. 9th, at the Von Hügel Institute, at St. Edmund College, in Cambridge, England.

    In that speech, Cardinal Cupich said that “Pope Francis is convinced of the need for a new ministerial approach to families as he looks at the challenges facing families in today’s world.”

    He added that “some people misinterpret and misunderstand Amoris simply because they fail or refuse to take into account the present reality in all its complexity.”

    The cardinal said that Pope Francis has introduced a set of “hermeneutical principles” – principles of theological interpretation – that “force a paradigm shift” in the Church’s work with families.

    Among the aspects of such a paradigm shift, Cupich said, is “rejecting an authoritarian or paternalistic way of dealing with people that lays down the law, that pretends to have all the answers, or easy answers to complex problems, that suggests that general rules will seamlessly bring immediate clarity or that the teachings of our tradition can preemptively be applied to the particular challenges confronting couples and families.”

    Cupich further discussed the importance of discernment in conscience. The “voice of conscience—the voice of God...could very well affirm the necessity of living at some distance from the Church’s understanding of the ideal, while nevertheless calling a person ‘to new stages of growth and to new decisions which can enable the ideal to be more fully realized,’” he said, commenting on an excerpt from Amoris Laetitia.

    The cardinal said that a pastoral, not “merely doctrinal,” approach is needed in work with families, because “the conscience based Christian moral life does not focus primarily on the automatic application of universal precepts. Rather, it is continually immersed in the concrete situations which give vital context to our moral choices.”

    The result of such a pastoral approach, Cupich said, “is not relativism, or an arbitrary application of the doctrinal law, but an authentic receptivity to God’s self-revelation in the concrete realities of family life and to the work of the Holy Spirit in the consciences of the faithful.”

    Further, the cardinal said, “doctrinal development is about remaining open to the invitation to see our moral teachings on marriage and family life through the lens of God’s omnipotent mercy."

    "Doctrine can develop as a result of the Church’s merciful accompaniment of families because God has chosen the family as a privileged place to reveal all that the God of mercy is doing in our time,” he added.

    The cardinal concluded by saying that a failure to approach questions related to marriage and family life with a “holistic approach” has “led some critics to misinterpret and misunderstand Amoris. Instead of actually attending to the present reality of people’s lives today in all of its complexity, they limit their scope to an idealistic understanding of marriage and family.”

    Cardinal Donald Wuerl and Archbishop Wilton Gregory are scheduled to speak at the Boston College seminar. Cardinals Joseph Tobin and Blase Cupich will present at the University of Notre Dame. Bishops Steven Biegler and Robert McElroy will present at Santa Clara University, according to the invitation.

    Several theologians and a canon lawyer will also present at the upcoming seminars.

    Among the theologians is Dr. Kate Ward, a professor at Marquette University. From 2012-2015, Ward was a national board member of Call to Action, a group that has called for the ordination of women to the priesthood, expressed support for same-sex marriage, and said that the Church should re-evaluate its “position” on the use of artificial birth control. From 2006-2009, Ward served as a national board member of Call to Action Next Generation, a youth affiliate of the organization. She chaired that board from 2008-2009.

    In 2006, Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, then-prefect of the Vatican Congregation for Bishops, wrote that Call to Action’s activities “are in contrast with the Catholic Faith due to views and positions held which are unacceptable from a doctrinal and disciplinary standpoint. Thus to be a Member of this Association or to support it, is irreconcilable with a coherent living of the Catholic faith.”

    Also scheduled to present is Dr. Natalia Imperatori-Lee, a theologian at Manhattan College.

    Imperatori-Lee was also a presenter at the October seminar at Boston College. At that seminar, she criticized the Church’s “infantilization of the laity,” saying that “lay people are infantilized by a logic...where pastors serve as gatekeepers, offering permission for sacraments, rather than as counselors who accompany laypersons on their sacramental journeys.”

    In a 2015 interview with the podcast Daily Theology, Imperatori-Lee described the late theologian and University of Notre Dame professor Fr. Richard McBrien as a mentor. According to the National Catholic Reporter, “McBrien advocated the ordination of women priests, an end to mandatory celibacy for priests, moral approval of artificial birth control, and decentralization of power in the church.”

    In a 2016 essay in the magazine America, she wrote “any claim that there are only two kinds of humans, male and female, is simplistic.”

    Msgr. Jack Alesandro, a canon lawyer from the Diocese of Rockville Centre, also presented at the Boston College seminar, and will present at the upcoming conferences.

    ...
     
  9. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    ...

    At the 2017 seminar, Alesandro said that Amoris Laetitia “as a whole supports the idea that as time passes, sacramental marriages become more sacramental and therefore more indissoluble.”

    Alesandro also said that Amoris Laetitia suggests new thresholds for the validity of consent to sacramental marriage. The document suggests “a superior capacity and resolve of the will is required of those entering sacramental marriage than of those entering a non-sacramental union,” he said.

    He said the exhortation “is challenging judges in a tribunal process to discover whether both spouses, including the man, were at the time of the wedding truly capable at the time of tenderness in the sense described by the pope, the tenderness of a mother cradling her infant.”

    “Spouses must be capable of entering a lifelong adventure, and able to renew it constantly if they are to exchange consent validly. It requires that they be friends on the journey. While they do not start out whole and complete, we know that, they must at least be able to grow into this vocation. If they’re incapable of that growth, or they’re really not committed to it, I don’t think they’re validly married, at least, not the Christian marriage.”

    “Canon lawyers may find it difficult to get their juridical mind around love, if their thinking has become overly legal, which is another way of saying ‘secularized,’” he said.

    According to the invitation, “there will be other theologians who will be invited to participate at one or more of the days.”

    The letter inviting bishops to the conference explained that transportation costs would be covered by “foundation grants.”

    The Boston College event was sponsored by the Jesuit Institute, the Archdiocese of Chicago, the Cushman Foundation, Healey Foundation, and Henry Luce Foundation.

    According to its tax forms, the Cushman Foundation provided the Archdiocese of Chicago a $12,300 grant in 2015 to fund periti, or theological experts, to the Synod of Bishops on the Family, in which then-Archbishop Blase Cupich participated.

    The Henry Luce foundation has given at least $600,000 in grants to Commonweal Magazine since 2005, it has also given grants to a number of Catholic universities and theology programs. In 2007, it gave a $25,000 grant to the Women’s Alliance for Theology, Ethics, and Ritual, according to grant listings on the foundation website. It also gave a one-time $9,500 grant in 2015 to the Archdiocese of Chicago “to support communications during the Ordinary Synod of the Roman Catholic Church.”

    The foundation’s website says it “seeks to bring important ideas to the center of American life, strengthen international understanding, and foster innovation and leadership in academic, policy, religious and art communities.”

    The Luce Foundation’s Theology program gives grants to “advance understanding of religion and theology.”

    “Particular attention is given to work that rethinks what theology is and reimagines its contemporary significance; to research that creatively examines received assumptions about religion, secularity, and public culture; and to projects located at the intersections of theological inquiry and the multidisciplinary study of religion,” the foundation’s website says.

    Sources told CNA that the USCCB is not involved in the New Momentum Conferences.

    The Archdiocese of Chicago did not respond to questions before deadline.
     
    DeGaulle likes this.
  10. sterph

    sterph Archangels

    Ugh. Why don't they just teach how to avoid sin? Instead of waiting until the sins already happen. It's so backward.
     
    HeavenlyHosts, Carol55, Dean and 2 others like this.
  11. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    "Alesandro also said that Amoris Laetitia suggests new thresholds for the validity of consent to sacramental marriage. The document suggests “a superior capacity and resolve of the will is required of those entering sacramental marriage than of those entering a non-sacramental union,” he said."

    The old saints used to say "better to marry than to burn". Now, it's been reversed-"marry and be more likely to burn".

    Logically, it is best not to get married at all.
     
  12. Momof5

    Momof5 New Member

    I am heartsick. God's plan is larger than we can comprehend, but it is so hard to go through this. I am so sad for our children who are exposed to so much and yet not given the foundation of our faith.
     
  13. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    I found this supposed message from the Virgin Mary at Medjugore striking. Isn’t Mirjana asking precisely what Amoris Laetitia and the whole New Mercy movement in the Church perceive as too hard, whether it is the hardness of God or the hardness of the faithful that continue to proclaim you can’t live the gospel and also allow remarried divorcees to live like husband and wife, or gay couples to be blessed?

    https://mysticpost.com/2018/02/peak...paul-ii-earth-desolate-upheaval-region-world/
    Medjugore, 15 August 1985
    Mirjana: – Appearing, the holy Virgin greeted me, saying:
    – Jesus be praised.
    Then she spoke of non-believers:
    – They are my children. I suffer for them. They do not know what awaits them. You have to pray more for them.
    We have prayed with her for the weak, for the unhappy, for the abandoned. After the prayer, she blessed us.
    Then she showed me, like in a movie, the realization of the first secret. The earth was desolate. “and there was upheaval of a region of the world”, she said. I cried.
    – Why so early? I asked.
    – There are too many sins in the world. What to do if you do not help me? Remember that I love you.
    – How can God have such a hard heart?
    God does not have a hard heart. Look around and see what men do, and then you will no longer say that God has a hard heart.
     
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  14. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    Jarg, Thank you for posting this. The following quote is significant also,
    During the apparition of December 25, 1982, according to Mirjana, Our Lady confided her the tenth and last secret and revealed the dates in which the different secrets would occur. The Virgin has revealed to Mirjana many aspects of the future, so far more than those told to the other seers. This is why I report here what Mirjana told me in the interview on November 5, 1983.
     
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  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Tools
    Verse page
    ' data-hasqtip="0">Jeremiah 18:12
    Hardness Of HeartHeart, Fallen And RedeemedPlans
    Fools, Characteristics OfEvil Devicesevil, origins of

    Tools
    Verse page
    ' data-hasqtip="0">

    Jeremiah 18:12
    "But they will say, 'It's hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.'
     
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  16. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    That's exactly what a great many would like to see happen. It's why marriage has been under attack at least here in the US for 60 years almost. The utter destruction of the family.
     
  17. Why would Pope Francis go to Chile specifically after he made the abuser priest a bishop? It doesn't even make sense. Rather than calming the faithful, he totally inflamed the entire situation to where the matter received world wide attention. Why would he do this? If in his heart, he is trying to undermine the priesthood and the faithful, that is exactly why he would make the abuser priest a bishop, go to Chile and make outrageous statements against the victims and get plenty of media attention in the process. Meanwhile we are all going what?? Do not let his antics lead you to discouragement or letting up on your prayers and sacrifices. This too shall pass. We don't know how long all the beautiful things about our faith and graces and sacraments will be dragged through the filth, but just know that God wins in the end.
     
  18. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    Notice how much utter confusion this Papacy sows at every turn? Every time I turn around I see and hear so many life long Catholics saying things such as why would he do this? It doesn't make sense. This is so confusing etc etc etc. I too said all these things. Ask yourself; Why is none of this making any sense to us?
    Why are we not seeing the truth?
    We have been deliberately deceived but all will be revealed, count on it. Those that have sowed this deception wish the world to know fully the depths of it because they hope to reap the despair and lack of charity. Don't let them win.
     
  19. Dean

    Dean Archangels

    This is exactly my biggest complaint, confusion. Our religion is supposed to be anything but that, Catholics more than anyone have our rules and traditions and there is not much confusion. COnfusion does not come from God
     
  20. dcana

    dcana Angels

    For nothing is hidden that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light.
    - Luke 8:17
     

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