I mean we must first point the finger at ourselves, personally. If we as the People Of God had been more Holy this Great Evil would not have befallen us. We must do prayer and do much penance that it be removed. I am afraid we can protest until we are blue in the face and it will make little difference. I am afraid only prayer and penance will save us. We ended up with bad leadership because of our sins, as a punishment and testing. The same thing happened to Ancient Israel again and again. I think somehow we just began to assume we would always get a good Pope as though we had some kind of Divine Right to it. But we had no such thing.
Thank you Praetorian for your excellent replies as usual! I don't post much here anymore but I do read yours.. I do feel a little concerned though that Todd has had his membership cancelled so quickly. I for one was learning more of the truth of our Catholicism from his errors, and was prompted to do some research in various areas. We are all on a journey and at different stages, but instead of just dismissing the lost sheep, perhaps we could look for it instead and try to bring it back into the fold again through respectful discussion and prayer .... Maybe it will chose to remain lost but at least we will have tried... Then he could be on his Tod ... couldn't resist that one! Perhaps Padraig would re - instate him??
There is no debating with posters like Todd. Sedevacantists are notorious/infamous for this fact. But the risk of them leading other MOG members and lurkers astray in times of doubt in our age is real; souls are at stake. It's too late for quaint notions of "maybe we can reason with them."
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.ch/2017/07/muller-all-elements-of-lived-faith-have.html?m=1 Müller: "All Elements of the Lived Faith Have Collapsed" Rome (idea) - Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller - until the beginning of July Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine and the Faith - has drawn a dramatic image of Christianity and the Catholic Church in Europe. "All the elements of the faith lived, the popular piety, have collapsed", he said in an interview with the Italian daily "Il Foglio" (issue 21 July). All of Europe is in a "process of forced de-Christianization, which goes far beyond simple secularization." Man is defined "strictly without God and without transcendence." In the Catholic Church, participation in ecclesiastical life, the spread of faith and the new vocations of priests and religious, has greatly diminished. Müller warned the church not to waste its powers in internal struggles. According to him, "so-called progressives" seek victory, "persecuting all so-called conservatives". The 69-year-old was Bishop of Regensburg from 2002 to 2012, and from 2012 to 2017 Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine and the Faith. Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com View attachment 6633
"so-called progressives" seek victory, "persecuting all so-called conservatives". The definition of our "good shepherd" Pope Francis.
Thank you Brian, when I first read Todd's posts my initial thought is/was troll. I had never heard the term sedevacantist before. I am glad that you and Praetorian pointed me in the direction of research.
Thank you for the compliment BC. Normally I would agree with you that hopefully we could bring Todd to light (and I hope we can if you are still reading Todd!) But I understand Brian's point and I would say I reluctantly agree. I say reluctantly because it is always sad to remove someone who is lost from the conversation. Knowing enough about sedevacantists though, letting them have a platform to spread error is dangerous to the faith of others. We live in such confusing times already without having to sort through that sort of error. Unless one knows their faith well, sedevacantist arguments can seem convincing. I think that is the main point, Todd was not merely contributing to the conversation, but he was proselytizing for sedevacantism. I don't think that should be allowed on any Catholic forum. I remember reading once that one soul has more value than all of the created universe, so it is exceedingly sad to see one who is seeking the truth so lost. Todd if you are still reading please read True or False Pope by Siscoe and Salza. They refute all of the sedevacantist arguments that can be made. Since your eternal soul is on the line and since I know you are sincerely searching for the truth please take the time to read it. I think you will find it well worth while. I am a trad by the way Todd, so if that holds any weight with you I hope you will consider what I have said.
Padraig, I recall how Our Lady of Good Success asked Sr. Mariana de Jesus Torres to pray and fast for the very times in which we live- and that was four centuries ago! How many of us have such a heart as hers. I have not done my part! Lord have mercy! Safe in the Dlames of the Sacred Heart!
Yes Terry, I must admit I have not been much of a one fro Penance. Fasting yes, penance no. I do try to work hard, which for a naturally lazy person like me is good. I will have to think about Penance. I am not even sure were to start. I must see if I can find some Sacred writings on the subject. I am afraid penance has gone out of fashion. Our Lady of Fatima certainly requested it. I will have to rack my brains...
I am afraid I was going to toss him myself but someone beat me to it. I am afraid it would be flogging a dead horse. He was learned, certainly.
Our Lady was big on offering up the sacrifices required by doing our daily duties As s matter of fact I think that might be part of the First Saturday Reparations I am not big on fasting Unlike you I respect folks who can fast I remember my friends who went to Catholic schools telling me that the nuns would tell them that they could not leave the room to get a drink To offer up that drink for the Poor Souls in Purgatory That is the kind of sacrifices that the Fatima shepherds would do for poor sinners I try to do that when the Holy Spirit nudges me Just delaying gratification is a sacrifice We have so much abundance at our fingertips Plus offering up when things don't go our way or when we are stuck in line or waiting for the plumber to show up Just daily aggravations offered up in the spirit of penance They are going to happen anyway Might as well offer them up
I have to say a lot of the stuff coming from round about the Vatican at the moment I count as Demonic. Why demonic? Well.. it sounds wonderful, compassion, kind , merciful , loving, profound and so on. But when you take it away in prayer it is like a great pink hot pink cloud. It means nothing. it is senseless. It certainly isn't Catholic. But it sounds really , really wonderful. Words like , accompaniment' and so on.' Just nonsense really. Very attractive nonsense but nonsense. I think it is demons writing this stuff, I really do. All the signs are there. There are other signs , but I don't want to freak people out. I don;t want to keep posting about th8is stuff, but my take on this whole thing is that things are very, very bad. Satan has his hoofs all over this whole deal.
Padraig, Maybe this article from Spirit Daily will help you not rack your brain too much! http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/iss...saved-countless-souls-in-the-first-world-war/ Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
Yes. When I hear what I call "waffle words" coming from churchmen who should be speaking clear doctrine to equip the faithful I always get uneasy. These are obfuscations that lead down the broad road to the cliff. Excuses for sin under the pink cloud of compassion. Definitely cloven prints but perhaps in charity these churchmen are deceived by trying to be "nice". I would hate to think it is deliberate.
Spot on. When you have current prophecy, such as coming from Pedro Regis, Zaro and others speaking to this corruptness in the hierarchy of clergy (without naming names), you know it is bad....really bad. The only ones that can't see this is those who are seduced by the world with their heads up their A__, or those who think God's truth can be changed. Even worse they will change God's truth and call it mercy. This is diabolic. No other way to put it.
I am not trying to keep people from fasting and doing penance, but I was told a story a long time ago about some monks who lived long ago discussing their types of rigorous penances and one asked whether they felt that those in the future will be able to do penance as they did. An old monk replied, no, those in the end times will not be able to do any penance, but if they persevere they will be greater saints in heaven then us, because we are dealing with Satan chained. They will be dealing with Satan unchained. This has always stayed with me. I do the fasting on Tuesday's and Friday's as Elizabeth Kindlemann was told and the hardest part is always the mental, not the physical for me. But I will say this much, I think we are suffering allot without giving up food or drink. There is not a day that goes by that my heart does not ache watching the church diminish in numbers and in practice. Every time I read an article about a clergyman choosing the sins of the world and dragging many souls with him, my heart aches. When I see family, relatives and friends who are lukewarm, my heart aches. When I see the fall of the Vatican, my heart aches. There is not a day that goes by that I am not grieved by what I see and read going on in and outside the Church. Bottom line, we are all doing penance and cry with our Blessed Mother and her Son.
Clergy are ‘main obstacle’ to Pope Francis’ agenda: Vatican newspaper Stefano Guidi / Shutterstock, Inc. Pete Baklinski Thu Jul 27, 2017 - 2:05 pm EST ROME, July 27, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) -- The "main obstacle" Pope Francis faces in implementing his agenda for the Church comes from “closure, if not hostility” from “a good part of the clergy, at levels both high and low,” stated anarticle in the Vatican’s semi-official newspaper L'Osservatore Romano on the weekend. Giulio Cirignano, an Italian priest and Scripture scholar at the Theological Faculty of Central Italy, accused all levels of clergy — priests, bishops, and cardinals — of opposing the Pope’s agenda because of being attached to traditional ways of thinking and practices. “The main obstacle that stands in the way of the conversion that Pope Francis wants to bring to the Church is constituted, in some measure, by the attitude of a good part of the clergy, at levels high and low … an attitude, at times, of closure if not hostility,” he said. Cirignano argued that average pew-sitters, not the clergy, are the ones who are recognizing that now is the “favorable moment” for the “conversion” of the Church championed by Pope Francis. “Most of the faithful have understood, despite everything, the favorable moment, the Kairos, which the Lord is giving to his community. For the most part, they’re celebrating,” he said. --- I don't know what you guys think but from what I see around among the faithful practicing Catholics, most people are if not hostile at least uneasy about the situation in the Church and the Pope's agenda. For the good of the Pope and the Church I think this hostility is healthy, it is playing an important role - it is sounding the alarms about the direction the Church is taking, which is what we need right now. It is telling the Pope, who because of his education and upbringing may be well convinced that he is in the right path, that maybe the Holy Spirit wants something else. It is not a hostility against the Pope himself, but against what is perceived as his agenda (at least a part of it). What I don't like about the tone of the article in l'Osservatore is that it presents the pope as a victim of so called 'traditional priests and prelates'. They are the bad buys, but the laity is celebrating. This is pure propaganda, it is laughable and it is twisted.
