Re: two sister Lucia's of Fatima. They don't appear to be the same person. The heavily hooded eye sockets and recessed chin of Lucia 1 are not present on Lucia 2. Dentures or not your skull doesn't change that much over time. Upturned smile vs. down turned and plump lips vs. thin....... Nothing surprises me anymore. Regardless if same or not, I'm moving on......best not waste more time dwelling on this. Now for the recent London false flag hahaha Here are some younger pics of Lucia 2 that proove it to me........ and Lusica 1
View attachment 6253 View attachment 6254 The pic above on the left is the real Sr Lucia at age 38 in 1945. The pic on the right is of the fake Sr Lucia at age 60 in 1967. How can this be possible? The fake Sr Lucia at 60 has an appearance that is as youthful or even younger than the real Sr Lucia at 38. Below is another pic of the fake Sr Lucia with Pope Paul VI - again at age 60 in 1967. View attachment 6255 Now look at a pic of the fake Sr Lucia at death at age 97 in 2005. Her features hadn't changed much in 37 years. And yet we are to believe that between 1945 and 1967, there had been a dramatic change in her eyes, nose,cheeks and and chin? View attachment 6256
The bizarre behaviour of the fake Sr Lucia at the beatification of Jacinta and Francesco - she kisses Pope JP II's hand immediately after receiving Holy Communion. View attachment 6257
That is pretty convincing to me that the consecration of Russia was not done and the third secret was not fully revealed. Clearly the refusal to release it fully means it has everything to do with those that have the power to not release it. As for Father Gruner mentioning talking with a blood relative sister about visiting her, I'm not sure how he would even know if she was in fact related. If there is a massive deception going on clearly presenting a "blood relative" to him that wasn't in fact related would be rather simple. Or more simply it was a relative of the Lucy 2, not Lucy 1. The question I have is why would Lucy 2 not claim the 84 consecration was done correctly right after? He states she said it was not done correctly up till '89. If she was an impostor wouldn't her job be to sell that it happened in the years right after? Wholly conspiracy, batman! It really is a fascinating topic. Tried to walk away from it but just couldn't without digging more......
I'm sure that Fr. Gruner's contacts would have known how to reach Sr. Lucy's family. The Church wouldn't have had any control over who Sr. Lucy's siblings met or spoke to. You raise a good point about Sr. Lucy saying that the 1984 consecration was inadequate until 1989. Perhaps she received confirmation that it was ok in a later vision from Heaven. I'm just speculating. Do you know whether the warnings from Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict about Fatima not being finished yet came before or after the 1984 consecration? The reason I ask is that if the 1984 consecrations was acceptable, the Popes should have been telling us to expect great things rather than issuing veiled warnings about forthcoming catastrophes.
Former member Basto has sent me a couple of photos and brief note that are of interest.... It’s just a photo of Lúcia's sisters from the late sixties which is placed in Lúcia's house at Fatima. There you can see the amasing similarities of Lucia with her oldest sister (Maria dos Anjos). I'm not giving you my opinion but just trying to help others making their own. Also, I believe that many forum members and readers may live inside big cities or might have lost contact with their relatives overseas, but Portugal is only 848km by 250km big, Coimbra is less than one hour away from Fatima and the Spanish town of Tuy is just across the border, and I invite anyone who visits Portugal to see how tight the Portuguese families are, specially those from the countryside. In addition, Lucia has a niece who became a nun as well, my mother met her at Fatima not long ago. View attachment 6262 View attachment 6263
Visited Fatima twice. Had big reservations with Fatima as i no longer believe it. One thing bothered me was the Vatican's obsession with Fatima in everything when ex Pope Benedict XVI intervened or denied it. Approx 98% of all apparitions are false more or less. So you have to be more cautious if any apparition happen now. Wouldn't blame some priests if they said they have to think twice before they could make a judgement rather than taking it at face value like i did re Fatima. Talking about spiritual 'atmosphere' which was noticeable in Lourdes and Knock- but not Fatima. Knock had some 15 witness which had bolstered their credibility even their statements could trip them up but it didn't. Problem with Fatima: 3 seers received their HC from an angel even though they hadn't received the sacrament yet at that time -HC from their parish yet cos they were too young i think. Lucia's 3 secrets was made during the 2nd world war which was after the fact -not before the event which rang alarm bells. Two Lucias photos- if true - another dent on the credibility- story of Fatima. One of apparitions was delayed by few days not on the 13th - so if our lady sees everything beforehand just as God is past, now and future. She would have said 5months on a 13th and one month date delayed to few days due to kidnapping of the seers. She would have warned the seers re Kidnapping ?? Rarely heard any miracle stories about Fatima for example Lourdes lot of miracles happened and Knock which i experienced healing there. Finally it is not a sin NOT to believe any of the apparitions including all of them as you don't have to believe it or not. It's up to you.
Can't say on that one.... could be a mass hallucination or who knows ??? Sometimes nature could play tricks on us like the spinning of the sun or shimmering of the sun .... One thing that struck me was Lucia's father, who was actually an atheist as he didn't change it nor became converted after Fatima apparitions. Another thing ... It was Russia provisional govt at that time not yet a communist nation.... it was part capitalism part monarch due to huge Tsar empire. It then converted to Soviet union Republic in 1922. Bolshevik party was renamed the Russian Communist Party (RCP) after the October revolution 1917. So it wasn't communism at that time until after revolution which made me doubt Fatima ... lot of little things added up for me.
I believe those were the years when she was totally under Vatican control and told what she was to say. C. Bertone was the one who simply wanted to relegate Fatima to the past and to then end any further speculation......and thus also prayer for the conversion of Russia by the faithful since they began believing that was no longer necessary since it was a done deal! There's a lot here....beyond what people may think of the messenger, their facts always appeared more definite than others who repeat the talking points without much background info or more complete research: http://www.fatima.org/essentials/opposed/cvrup3.asp 1989-90: Vatican functionaries demand that Lucia and others affirm that Russia has been consecrated; spurious typewritten “letters from Lucia” appear. July (1989): Father Messias Coelho reveals that Sister Lucy and others have received an anonymous “instruction” from unidentified persons in the Vatican stating that she and they must now affirm that the Consecration of Russia was accomplished on March 25, 1984. http://www.fatima.org/f4b/complete_fatima_timeline.pdf
When did ex Pope Benedict intervene or deny Fatima? I've always marveled at how Heaven obeys the laws of the Church. Only Lucia received the Host and she had already made her first Holy Communion. Her two younger cousins received the Precious Blood, no Church law against that as far as I know. The secrets were given earlier and announced later. Conspiracy theories. Sigh God gives His messages to people, it is up to people as to how they will receive them. God gave His Beloved Son to us, knowing full well how we would treat Him. Yup, you got that right, just follow the Church in her teachings, keep to the sacraments..ect. and you'll be in Heaven.
The month immediately after the last public apparition of Fatima/sun miracle produced the Bolshevik revolution which birthed the movement that established the vehicle for Satan's attempt to destroy the Church/faithful as revealed in Pope Leo's vision, granting the evil one his 100 years to attempt the same. Pope Leo didn't know when this time period would begin since such a vehicle for this diabolical influence....Communism....was still awaited. Somehow that "mass hallucination" was also captured in picture and print of the exact event of the miracle of the sun via the journalism of the day.....that is, the miracle itself that developed from itself and experienced by the crowd to news print and thus "beyond" any excuse of hallucination. The miracle could not have been mass hysteria, because people observed the event miles away. It could not have been religious fervor, because many witnesses were indifferent or even hostile to the Faith.
Deaf student, I would like to make two observations in reply to your doubts. I can tell you for a fact that the secret in which Blessed Mother asked for Consecration to Immaculate Heart of Mary was known in my grandmothers time. She had already Consecrated my mother RIP and my uncle RIP, my maternal grandfather RIP and herself before my mother married in the early 1930's. I can still remember seeing the picture of Immaculate Heart of Mary in granny's kitchen when I was a little child, I am nearly 70 now. I don't think you are well informed about all that relates to Fatima. The second point I would like to share is. When the children were told Russia would spread her errors. The children had never heard of Russia and thought it must be some naughty lady. The adults at the time were incredulous because Russia was a very Orthodox Catholic county, it was inconceivable that what the children said could be true. Because it was a PROPHESY, Blessed Mother was informing mankind in advance about what was to happen in Russia, and we all know the PROPHESY did indeed come true. And we are told there is more to come, from Russia if the Consecration is not validly done. I don't know if Saint John Paul did certainly make that Consecration. I believe he did; but some argue that he didn't. I pray he did. God knows we have enough going on these days. As you say you are not bound to believe in apparitions; but it is a shame you may not be able to rejoice at the signs in the sun, moon and stars this very year of 2017, especially 23rd September 2017. When even scientists are able to see the stars in the sky move into what is described in the book of Revelation chapter 12. The woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet. You can read about it on some of the threads on this site. Peace my friend and God bless you always.
Thanks for that. I get all mixed up between the various consecrations and timelines, so it's helpful to have the chronology. I also get the dissenting Cardinals mixed up. For example, I thought that it was Cardinal Sodano rather than Cardinal Bertone who was the baddie (for want of a better description). I need to spend some time reading it to get it all into my thick skull.
