Garabandal, I nor anyone else, needs Brian to come on to MOG just to give the next spin or attack on Pope Francis. I would applaud you all if you remained silent and prayed for him in lieu of attacking him. You don't know his heart. You don't know what God's plan for him is, right? I find it hard to believe people of good faith pray for a person whom in the next breath they are looking to slander him. It is irrational to do this. Jesus seen the "cracks" in Judas. Do you suppose he cut Judas down to his other apostles or did they see him praying for him to the very end? Yes right to the very end when he washed the feet of Judas did he weep bitterly for him.
I've prayed for him earnestly, daily. I've fasted and abstained for him. I've literally accepted real crosses for him, willingly, beforehand. But I've never attacked him. Those who counsel silence in the face of this dire situation attack him personally - and the Body of Christ, the Church. It's time you learned this.
The opposite has become the case. Error, repeated often enough here, causes confusion and doubt, and destroys the remnants' ability to speak the Truth here. Or simply persevere in holding it.
The true madness here is the blind inability to see the distinction between, on the one hand, respectful criticism and, on the other hand, wrathful, venomous, uncharitable, assuming, resentful demeanors and charges against the one person on Earth who commands the most respect. I have issued my fair share of the former, even regarding the Pope. But please God forbid I ever succumb to the latter against even the lowest person on Earth, much less the Vicar of Christ himself. (Edit: for non registered users reading this comment who cannot see the image BrianK posted above, it is an image of a quote that seems to imply that we, who believe the Holy Father should not be treated this way, are mad) And to another commenter on this thread: bear in mind that one who is "sick and tired" of his crosses should ponder whether it is Christ's Cross that he carries, or rather, the Devil's.
You do not 'personally' attack Pope Francis but in virtually every post you make you try to undermine everything he says and teaches. Your posts are a full frontal attack on the Holy Father.
Daniel - I agree with the first part of your post above (I'm not sure what you were referring to in the second part.) I was pondering this awful thread this morning and the word "venomous" kept popping into my head, as well. It's not the criticism or the concerns, it's the tone with which they are expressed. I'm sorry, but such vomit simply cannot be from God.
Jesus Christ himself said: Beware, you will know them by their fruits. Fruits of Our Holy Father: Tim Markatos/Georgetown Voice Claire ChretienFollow Claire Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Comment on this Article21 Share via Email Print this Page NEWSHOMOSEXUALITY, MARRIAGETue Sep 20, 2016 - 1:44 pm EST Prominent Jesuit will accept award from pro-homosexual group condemned by Vatican, US bishops Catholic , Homosexuality , James Martin , Lgbtq , New Ways Ministry , Same-Sex 'Marriage' PIKESVILLE, Maryland, September 20, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) — One of the most prominent and well-known Jesuits in America is slated to accept an award from New Ways Ministry, a pro-homosexual group that rejects moral teachings of the Catholic Church, on October 30. New Ways Ministry will honor Father James Martin, the editor at large of Americamagazine and the author of numerous books, with its Bridge Building Award, which “honors those individuals who by their scholarship, leadership, or witness have promoted discussion, understanding, and reconciliation between the LGBT community and the Catholic Church.” The group chose Martin “as a recipient of our Bridge Building Award for his strong promotion of LGBT acceptance through his communication ministry.” “With his hundreds of thousands of social media followers and as Editor at Large for ‘America’ magazine, Fr. Martin has initiated a dialogue on LGBT issues with Catholics across the political spectrum, opening minds and hearts to greater acceptance,” the award’s Facebook event page says. In addition to promoting the “coming out” of “LGBT Catholics” for “the way God created them,” Martin supports a number of progressive political causes. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Vatican have denouncedNew Ways Ministry for its opposition to Church teaching. The group has been banned from speaking in Catholic dioceses across the country but it maintains that it is a “Catholic” group. New Ways Ministry describes itself as “a gay-positive ministry of advocacy and justice for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) Catholics, and reconciliation within the larger Christian and civil communities.” Part of its mission is to “identify and combat personal and structural homophobia,” and “work for changes in attitudes and promote the acceptance of LGBT people as full and equal members of church and society.” The group has published a number of materials attempting to reconcile Catholic moral teaching with same-sex “marriage” and sodomy. “In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty,” the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith’s documentConsiderations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons instructs. “One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.” The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that sexual activity between people of the same sex is “intrinsically disordered,” but that the attraction itself is not necessarily a sin. Those who experience same-sex attraction should be treated with “respect, compassion, and sensitivity,” and “every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided,” the Catechism says (CCC 2357 – 2358). “I wish to make it clear that, like other groups that claim to be Catholic but deny central aspects of Church teaching, New Ways Ministry has no approval or recognition from the Catholic Church and that they cannot speak on behalf of the Catholic faithful in the United States,” Cardinal Francis George wrote when he was the head of the U.S. bishops’ conference. “Their claim to be Catholic only confuses the faithful regarding the authentic teaching and ministry of the Church with respect to persons with a homosexual inclination." Some of New Ways Ministry’s most recent causes include the promotion of same-sex parenting rather than “outdated family models” that include a mother and father, supporting a New Jersey high school student whose Catholic school wouldn’t let her dress as a boy, and “heartily” thanking Democratic vice presidential candidate Senator Tim Kaine for suggesting that the Catholic Church will eventually accept same-sex “marriage.” “Church history has shown time and again that important changes in the Church have always arisen from the bottom to the top, and not the other way around,” New Ways Ministry executive director Francis DeBernardo wrote after Kaine’s controversial statement. “So, it is only a matter of time before the church hierarchy begins to accept and affirm what Catholics like Tim Kaine already know: that love is love, and that all love is holy, for God is love … Catholic bishops and other church leaders need to follow Kaine’s example by opening their eyes, ears, minds, and hearts to the experiences of lesbian and gay couples and their families. Instead of being locked in an ivory tower, Catholic bishops need to do what the rest of the country and the world has been doing for decades: dialogue with lesbian and gay people so they can see they are not an enemy to be fought, but children of God, as are all human beings.” In 1999, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith permanently banned New Ways Ministry co-founders Sister Jeannine Gramick and Father Robert Nugent from any pastoral work involving people who experience same-sex attraction. Martin’s Facebook fan page has nearly half a million “likes.” He frequently comments on church issues for secular media. But hey, who am I to judge?
Did you read my post? I criticised poor leadership in the Church which is all of them at the top! Stop putting words into my mouth about not knowing the Pope's heart since that is irrelevant to what I said! Why can I not criticise the leadership? Cardinal is against Cardinal and Bishop against Bishop. The House of God is in disorder and a house divided falls. It is embarrassing to see such disorder and chaos in the Church. If it were a business it would be bankrupt. Proof indeed that God has protected the Church down through the centuries against the ignorance of the men that have been in charge. I do pray for the Pope and the Church. But God has allowed such chaos for a reason. Things are going to get immeasurably worse soon within the house of God. If one thinks things are bad wait to see what is around the corner! Put not your faith in structures but in Jesus Christ the Living God.
Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s views, you must fear or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.
Locution from Jesus to Monsignor Michelini, an Italian priest and mystic who died in 1979. This message was given November 6, 1978 and is in book 6 of Confidences of Jesus to a Priest Masonry, the church of the devil My son how many times I told you and I reminded you that Lucifer and his staff based their activity and way of operating to mimic God. I, Jesus, true God and true Man, have founded my hierarchical Church...and the church of Satan on the earth, Masonry, also has a hierarchical structure. I, Jesus, have disseminated spiritual fortresses throughout all my Church.... Masonry, the Church of the devil, has disseminated throughout the world its lodges with heads and followers with the only purpose to oppose and combat my Church. Now being that the demons' sole purpose is to rebel against God, all their activity is inspired on rebellion and therefore on the contrary of what is being accomplished in my Church. Masonry wanted, sustained and guided by the obscure powers of evil, is reaching its maximum level of demolition of my Church operating both inside and outside it; inside it has a lot of followers at the height and at the base. Masonry is always masked by hypocrisy, nevertheless it hits and injects its poisonous sting to all those it comes into contact with. Today then, we see at hand the great fight minutely prepared from so long a time with deceitful art it doesn’t hesitate to disclose what it has always kept jealously hidden and concealed. They charge with madness those who have remained and remain faithful to the faith and to the fidelity to God and to the Church, that, even if nearly entirely a prisoner of these gloomy infernal and earthly forces, will resist and will not be destroyed, on the contrary, from the sufferings of the present hour, the Church will become more beautiful and brighter than it has ever been. Those who don’t believe my presence My son, you have asked so many times how you have found yourself involved with the obscure powers of the Hell in so many fights that have cost you sufferings hardly understandable by most people and also so many bitter tears. is it that you too must sustain this persecution, because you can call it this way, persecution also hidden to most people but well known to you. Son, I have kept for you a task and a great mission for which it was necessary the sorrowful experience permitted by my Divine Will. Now, my son, have confidence and don’t fear of anything; prepare yourselves (Holy priests) to accomplish well your duties of favorite sons,you will never lack the helps and the divine assistance. Love one another as I love you; those who don’t believe my personal presence among you; how great and sad is the obscurity in which they struggle. I bless you, son and with you I bless the Community. Love Me, pray; pray and offer reparation.
No I ever never seen excahnging views as a negative Brian, we never change peoples views by forcing them to shut up, nor they us. We are entitiled to our opinions and they , theirs. I know the CHurch is not a Democracy, but sitll , I ahve a few Democratic instincts tucked away somewhere. I would be very nervous on a forum where everyone agreed with me. .
Plenty of respectful criticism here Daniel. And two more articles to come. Any thoughts? With Burning Concern: We Accuse Pope Francis What Sort of Humility Is This? On the night of your election, speaking from the balcony of Saint Peter’s Basilica, you declared: “the duty of the Conclave was to give a bishop to Rome.” Even though the crowd before you consisted of people from around the world, members of the Church universal, you expressed thanks only “for the welcome that has come from thediocesan community of Rome.” You also expressed the hope that “this journey of the Church that we begin today” would be “fruitful for the evangelization of this beautiful city.” You asked the faithful present in the Saint Peter’s Square to pray, not for the Pope, but “for their Bishop” and you said that the next day you would “go to pray the Madonna, that she may protect Rome.” Your strange remarks on that historic occasion began with the banal exclamation “Brothers and sisters, good evening” and ended with an equally banal intention: “Good night and sleep well!” Not once during the first address did you refer to yourself as Pope or make any reference to the supreme dignity of the office to which you had been elected: that of the Vicar of Christ, whose divine commission is to teach, govern and sanctify the Church universal and lead her mission to make disciples of all nations. Almost from the moment of your election there began a kind of endless public relations campaign whose theme is your singular humility among the Popes, a simple “Bishop of Rome” in contrast to the supposed monarchical pretensions of your predecessors and their elaborate vestments and red shoes, which you shunned. You gave early indicationsof a radical decentralization of papal authority in favor of a “synodal Church” taking its example from the Orthodox view of “the meaning of episcopal collegiality and their experience of synodality.” The exultant mass media immediately hailed “the Francis revolution.” Yet this ostentatious display of humility has been accompanied by an abuse of the power of the papal office without precedent in the history of the Church. Over the past three-and-a-half years you have incessantly promoted your own opinions and desires without the least regard for the teaching of your predecessors, the bimillenial traditions of the Church, or the immense scandals you have caused. On innumerable occasions you have shocked and confused the faithful and delighted the Church’s enemies with heterodox and even nonsensical statements, while heaping insult after insult upon observant Catholics, whom you continually deride as latter-day Pharisees and “rigorists.” Your personal comportment has often descended to acts of crowd-pleasing buffoonery. You have consistently ignored the salutary admonition of your immediate predecessor, who resigned the papacy under mysterious circumstances eight years after having asked the bishops assembled before him at the beginning of his pontificate to “Pray for me, that I may not flee for fear of the wolves.” To quote your predecessor in his first homily as Pope: “The Pope is not an absolute monarch whose thoughts and desires are law. On the contrary: the Pope’s ministry is a guarantee of obedience to Christ and to his Word. He must not proclaim his own ideas, but rather constantly bind himself and the Church to obedience to God’s Word, in the face of every attempt to adapt it or water it down, and every form of opportunism.” A Selective Meddling in Politics, Always Politically Correct Throughout your tenure as “Bishop of Rome” you have shown scant regard for the limitations of papal authority and competence. You have meddled in political affairs such as immigration policy, penal law, the environment, restoring diplomatic relations between the United States and Cuba (while ignoring the plight of Catholics under the Castro dictatorship) and even opposing the Scottish independence movement. Yet you refuse to oppose secularist governments when they defy the divine and natural law by such measures as legalizing “homosexual unions,” a matter of divine and natural law on which a Pope can and must intervene. In fact, your many condemnations of social evils—all of them politically safe targets—are continually belied by your own actions, which compromise the Church’s witness against the manifold errors of modernity: • Contrary to the constant teaching of the Church based on Revelation, you demand worldwide total abolition of the death penalty, no matter how grave the crime, and even the abolition of even life sentences, yet you have never called for the abolition of legalized abortion, which the Church has constantly condemned as the mass murder of innocents. • You declare that the simple faithful are sinning gravely if they fail to recycle their household waste and turn off unnecessary lighting, even as you expend millions of dollars on vulgar mass events surrounding your person in various countries, to which you travel with large entourages in charter jets that emit vast quantities of carbon emissions into the atmosphere. • You demand open borders for Muslim “refugees” in Europe, who are predominantly military-age males, while you live behind the walls of a Vatican city-state that strictly excludes non-residents—walls built by Leo IV to prevent a second Muslim sack of Rome. • You speak incessantly of the poor and the “peripheries” of society but you ally yourself with the wealthy and corrupt German hierarchy and pro-abortion, pro-contraception, pro-homosexual celebrities and potentates of globalism. • You deride greedy corporate profit-seeking and “the economy that kills” while you honor with private audiences and receive lavish donations from the world’s wealthiest technocrats and corporate heads, even allowing Porscheto rent the Sistine Chapel for a “magnificent concert… arranged exclusively for the participants,” who paid some $6,000 each for a Roman tour—the first time a Pope has allowed this sacred space to be used for a corporate event. • You demand an end to “inequality” as you embrace communist and socialist dictators who live in luxury while the masses suffer under their yokes. • You condemn an American candidate for the presidency as “not Christian” because he seeks to prevent illegal immigration, but you say nothing against the atheist dictators you embrace, who have committed mass murder, persecute the Church and imprison Christians in police states. ` Cont
In promoting your personal opinions on politics and public policy as if they were Catholic doctrine, you have not hesitated to abuse even the dignity of a papal encyclical by employing it to endorse debatable and even demonstrably fraudulent scientific claims regarding “climate change,” the “carbon cycle,” “carbon dioxide pollution” and “acidification of the oceans.” The same document also demands that the faithful respond to a supposed “ecological crisis” by supporting secular programs of environmentalism, such as the Sustainable Development Goals of the United Nations, which you have praised even though they call for “universal access to sexual and reproductive health,” meaning contraception and abortion. A Rampant Indifferentism While hardly a pioneer respecting the destructive post-conciliar novelties of “ecumenism” and “interreligious dialogue,” you have promoted to a degree not seen even during the worst years of the post-conciliar crisis a specific religious indifferentism that practically dispenses with the mission of the Church as the ark of salvation. Respecting the Protestants, you declare that they are all members of the same “Church of Christ” as Catholics, regardless of what they believe, and that doctrinal differences between Catholics and Protestants are comparatively trivial matters to be worked out by agreement of theologians. Given that opinion, you have actively discouraged Protestant conversions, including one “Bishop” Tony Palmer, who belonged to a breakaway Anglican sect that purports to ordain women. As Palmer recounted, when he mentioned “coming home to the Catholic Church” you gave this appalling reply: “No one is coming home. You are journeying towards us and we are journeying towards you and we will meet in the middle.” The middle of what? Palmer died in a motorcycle accident shortly thereafter. At your insistence, however, the man whose conversion you deliberately impeded was buried as a Catholic bishop—a mockery that was contrary to the infallible teaching of your predecessor that “ordinations carried out according to the Anglican rite have been, and are, absolutely null and utterly void.” [Leo XIII, Apostolicae curae (1896), DZ 3315] As to other religions in general, you have adopted as a virtual program the very error condemned by Pope Pius XIonly 34 years before Vatican II: “that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule.” You have been utterly heedless of Pius XI’s admonition “that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion.” In that regard, you have suggested that even atheists can be saved merely by doing good, thus eliciting delighted praise from the media. It seems that in your view Rahner’s heretical thesis of the “anonymous Christian,” embracing virtually all of humanity and implying universal salvation, has definitively replaced the teaching of Our Lord to the contrary: “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; and he that disbelieves shall be condemned (Mk 16:16).” http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/a39c2320d5a000af50a90f8ab2bfdfba-633.html
Ah, the good Lord was kind when He took Fr Gruner home and thus prevented him being drawn further down this sad path being followed by his old friends. How the devil must be dancing in satisfaction at his successes in turning faithful Catholics into critics of the papacy.
I think a lot of hte problem with these kind of threads is that people are not being dispassionate enough in their views. One person gets irritated causing the other to get irritated then we echo off each other getting more and more heated till we explode like a volcano. FInally we reach a point were we no longer even listen to other people for they are the , 'Enemy' . At tha tpoint what is the reason for going on? The discussion just turns into an angry slanging match a little field of volcanos all blowing our tops.
There is nothing more off putting than people loosing their temper and shouting and at each other and calling each other names. It justs drives everyone else away and the first victim of such behaviour is the truth. More importantly it is very displeasing to the Most High God and the Blessed Virgin , whose home this is. Recollect yuorselves and do not cause your Mother to weep.
I agree Padraig. A lot of this information is VERY, VERY important to discuss. The Church is in BIG, BIG trouble. I think most people on the forum see this. We need to all come together and realize that we are all on the same side. The truth will come out. Some people see it quicker than others. To win an argument and sway people to your point of view, the last thing you want to do is be confrontational. It makes people who were on the fence or open to hearing your point of view dig their heels in and plug their ears. That is just human nature. We all need to remember that we are Catholic brothers and sisters. Many in this time are suffering from Diabolical Disorientation (perhaps we all are to some degree). Let us put forth our points of view without driving people away.
