“The Next Pope” Cardinal Schonborn Says Pope Francis “Is very interested in all things related to Medjugorje”… “Medjugorje Will Captivate the World” Juan García Inza From Religion Libertad juan.garciainza@gmail.com I asked Cardinal Schonborn to give us his opinion on Medjugorje. He thought for a few seconds and said: I have been part of the Committee of experts who has studied this religious phenomena. Our conclusions are already given by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, of which I am a member. But something significant is that Pope Francis, before the Congregation was defined on the subject, asked to be handed the study prepared by the Commission. That is, the Pope is very interested in everything related to Medjugorje. He also stated that some members of the Commission were suspicious that the Virgin Mary appeared every day for so long. He answered them: For St. Faustina appeared to the Lord sometimes several times a day and is approved by the Church and she canonized. He is aware of the good that is being done in Medjugorje and in any part of the world that invokes Mary Queen of Peace. He organizes periodic prayer meetings with young people in his cathedral, and often invites one of the “seers” to talk to the children about their spiritual experiences and what they receive from the Virgin. When I asked him about the future of Medjugorje he told me that there is one thing clear: the Church is not going to “break” anything that has been built for years. That is, Medjugorje will continue to captivate the world. http://www.mysticpost.com/2017/02/t...djugorje-medjugorje-will-captivate-the-world/
Pope Francis must be a pretty persevering detractor then. He has publicly made this charge of treating the Virgin Mary as a postmaster at least four times, in November 2013, June 2015, November 2015, and this week. It has been stated when the status of Medjugorje was being publicly debated and both the secular and (liberal and conservative) Catholic press universally agreed that he was referencing Medjugorje. Making this obvious observation does not constitute belittling or mocking, sowing seeds of confusion, nor stirring the pot. Making light of those who persist in denying the obvious is not either. Those who persist in this denial of reality are the ones in need of deeper reflection.
We shall see. He has surprised us many times, especially when he has had such disdain for priests and seminarians keeping with orthodoxy, while labeling them "rigid". I think Pope Francis will have a hard time accepting any alleged message from heaven, as they too are very "rigid" at times with calling the faithful back to its traditions.
It would seem that the Pope could be preparing the faithful (and he must be aware of the great split in opinions re: Medj) for the REAL consideration to be accepted in any favorable decision as one based on the essence of the fruits rather than regard for any place out of mere curiosity or immature faith. C. Mueller has been the one to delay the action of his opinion about the select commission's 4 year amount of work while the Pope, who doesn't have to wait for such but was fulfilling the now sense of "collegiality" that pervades and even undercuts the Pope's position of authority in many such decisions, patiently awaited through C. Mueller's (who btw doesn't like any private revelations and merely gives acknowledgement to the now familiar ones) obfuscations and delays. One would have to wonder about the word out there that C. Mueller could likely be replaced by such as C. Schoenborn....as well as the plan for a bishop appointed solely for Medjugorje due to its international recognition and that the house for said bishop is already in place and waiting for such.
BK: It may look like wheat, but the truth is it is darnel. The perception that the Pope is referring to Medjugorje when he make his postmaster/postmistress comment is just that, a perception, perhaps an opinion. Francis has not mentioned Medjugorje in context with these statements. But then there are those who choose to put words into the Pope’s mouth to create a story. I believe the term used these days is ‘fake news’. I know of only two occasions when Pope Francis has made mention of the postmaster/mistress reference to Our Lady. Can you give a source for the June 2015 reference? Pope Francis made no reference this week. The mention that was published in Corriere della Sera was to his quote made to the USG in November last year. So we are down to three references, maybe two, if you can’t come up with the source for the June 2015 date.
Every time this pope has made these remarks, it's beeen in the context of Medjugorje; he only makes this comment when Medjugorje is actively being debated. That's not darnel or perception or fake news, it's simple fact. Except to those blinded by an overarching attachment to defending BOTH Medjugorje AND this pope's nonsense. Its not hard to "come up with a source," simply Google search for "Pope Francis Medjugorje postmaster." http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...ent-pope-downplays-predictable-visions-20781/ Days after Medjugorje comment, Pope downplays predictable visions by Elise Harris Vatican City, Jun 9, 2015 / 07:59 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Days after declaring that a decision on the Medjugorje apparitions would be coming soon, Pope Francis cautioned against basing one’s faith solely on predicted visions or anything other than Christ himself. In his June 9 daily Mass at the Vatican’s Saint Martha Guesthouse, Pope Francis cautioned against those who look for God “with these Christian spiritualties that are a little ethereal,” calling them “modern Gnostics.” These people, he said, “tell you this or that: no, the last word of God is Jesus Christ, there is no other!” He also warned against those “who always need novelty of Christian identity. They’ve forgotten that they were chosen, anointed, that they have the guarantee of the Spirit, and they seek.” Francis observed that there are those who might ask, “But where are the seers who tell us today, ‘the letter that the Madonna will send us at four in the afternoon…’” He cited this type of predicted vision as an example of those who base their faith on novelties, explaining that these people “live from this.” However “this isn’t Christian identity. The ultimate word of God is named ‘Jesus,’ nothing more,” he said. The alleged Marian apparitions of Medjugorje, Bosnia-Herzegovina are the only apparitions said to still happen almost daily since their first occurrence in 1981. Out of the original six children, known as “seers,” who began to experience phenomena which they have claimed to be apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary in 1981, three claim that they continue to receive visions every afternoon because not all of the secrets intended for them have been revealed. Pope Francis’ reference to predictable visions comes just days after he disclosed to journalists that a decision on the authenticity of the alleged Medjugorje apparitions could be coming soon. “We’re at this point of making decisions … and then they will be announced,” the Pope told journalists during a brief in-flight news conference June 6 while on his way back from the Bosnian capital of Sarajevo. He also revealed that “some guidelines will be given to bishops on the lines they will take.” In his daily homily Nov. 14, 2013, Francis cautioned against a misguided “spirit of curiosity” that can also take our vision off Christ, focusing instead on such predictable visions. One might be tempted to say “But I know a visionary, who receives letters from Our Lady, messages from Our Lady,” he said on that occasion. Our Lady, he stressed, “is the Mother of everyone! And she loves all of us. She is not a postmaster, sending messages every day.” In his June 9 remarks, the Pope also cautioned against broadening one’s conscience “so much that everything enters.” Worldliness is something human, he said, noting that when it seeps into one’s morals and leads one to accept some of Christ’s teachings while rejecting others, this is how “salt loses its flavor.” “We see Christian communities, including Christians, who say they are Christians, but they cannot and are not giving witness to Jesus Christ. So (like this) identity goes backwards, backwards and you lose yourself, and this is the worldly nominalism that we see every day,” the Pope observed. Christian identity is “a beautiful identity which can be seen through witness,” which is the reason Jesus so frequently speaks about it, Francis continued. He cautioned against “watering down” one’s witness by reducing Christianity to a mere idea. Instead, Christian identity, which comes from Christ, “is concrete,” he said, explaining that this can be seen in the Beatitudes. From what Jesus outlines in the Beatitudes “we pass from this religion that’s a bit soft, in the air and on the road of the Gnostics,” the Pope noted. But behind true Christian identity “there is scandal. This Christian identity is scandalous,” he said, referring to Jesus’ death on the Cross. In the history of salvation God, “with his patience of Father, has brought us from ambiguity to certainty, to the concreteness of the incarnation and the redemptive death of his Son. This is our identity.”
This is intriguing really. Those who are devoted to Medjugorje but realize this pope has a heterodox agenda have no problem believing this pope is critical of Medjugorje. Those who are critical of both this pope and Medjugorje have no problem believing this pope is critical of Medujorge. ONLY those who both defend this pope's heterodoxy, AND are devoted to Medjugorje, are in denial of this pope's obvious criticism of Medjugorje. Draw your own conclusions. I'm not claiming to understand the import of this observation.
As I suspected, BK, there was no reference made by Pope France in June 2015 to postmaster/mistress. So we are back to the two references I was aware of already. Unfortunately, you were tempted to sow the darnel amongst the wheat in claiming there were at least four. I’m not saying it was deliberate on your part, but nevertheless you attempted to pass off or attribute the two fake instances as genuine statements made by Pope Francis. Satan tried this with Jesus in the desert. He quoted Scripture out of context, in an attempt to get Jesus to surrender his will to him. Fancy that – quoting scripture against Jesus, almost akin to taking the Pope’s words out of context and using them against him. Satan is no pushover. Any of us who make the mistake to presume that we are strong in our faith, even righteous, that we know better, have found to our cost and sorrow at times that the evil one is quick to seize an opportunity to cut the ground from under us. He just loves sowing darnel amongst wheat. But we know the outcome. The darnel gets cut down and destroyed. Only truth prevails. And the truth is that, to date, Pope Francis has not mentioned or spoke about the Medjugorje phenomenon and its messages as being letters from a postmaster, whatever anyone may care to choose to believe or try and make out that he has. Neither am I presuming that at some time Pope Francis won’t declare against Medjugorje. But he hasn’t yet.
You have trouble with reading comprehension. It's the same point: Francis observed that there are those who might ask, “But where are the seers who tell us today, ‘the letter that the Madonna will send us at four in the afternoon…’” He cited this type of predicted vision as an example of those who base their faith on novelties, explaining that these people “live from this.” However “this isn’t Christian identity. The ultimate word of God is named ‘Jesus,’ nothing more,” he said. The alleged Marian apparitions of Medjugorje, Bosnia-Herzegovina are the only apparitions said to still happen almost daily since their first occurrence in 1981. Out of the original six children, known as “seers,” who began to experience phenomena which they have claimed to be apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary in 1981, three claim that they continue to receive visions every afternoon because not all of the secrets intended for them have been revealed. Pope Francis’ reference to predictable visions comes just days after he disclosed to journalists that a decision on the authenticity of the alleged Medjugorje apparitions could be coming soon. You can convince yourself of the moral superiority of your spin, but lurkers here ain't buying it. Take your sanctimony elsewhere.
BK, I missed the point you quoted from the Pope’s June 6 homily. My error and apologies. That’s three references – which goes to prove my point about none of us being excluded from having the ground cut from under. However, the Pope is not referring to the Medjugorje phenomenon or any other apparition claim but to the attitude and approach by those of the faithful always “searching for some novelty”, those who chase apparitions and visionaries, be it at Medjugorje or anywhere else on the planet, and forgetting their true Christian identity is in Jesus, and not in a “superstar Madonna”. It could even stretch to following those who make predictions and prophesy. This is the same point Pope Francis made to the USG last November when he said: “The real Madonna is the [one] who generates Jesus in our hearts, a Mother” and reported this week. And I would agree with him entirely.
https://www.total-croatia-news.com/lifestyle/16782-pope-francis-endangers-tourism-in-medugorje Pope Francis Endangers Tourism in Međugorje Vedran Pavlic Number of tourists in Međugorje has declined substantially after Pope’s criticism. It sounds impossible, but it is true: 36 years after Međugorje in Bosnia and Herzegovina became a global pilgrimage destination, which was visited on average by about a million Catholics (and others) a year, there has been a noticeable drop in the number of visitors, primarily those coming from Italy, reports Slobodna Dalmacija on February 21, 2017. Italians were among the first who started coming to the location of alleged apparitions and they were the most numerous visitors for years. But now their numbers have been more than halved. Gianni Mauro, the owner of the Mauro travel agency, announced in the Italian media that he would close his business, which was dependent on Italian pilgrims. Mauro says that every year more than 200,000 pilgrims from Italy used to come to Međugorje, but by the summer of 2016 that number decreased to only about 50 people per ferry coming from Italy. He said that the reason for such a decline in visitor numbers was twofold: the economic crisis in Italy, but also criticism about the Međugorje phenomenon by Pope Francis, who on several occasions said that “the Virgin Mary is not a letter carrier who brings her messages every day”. In Milan, Solo Croatia travel agency has been bringing tourists and pilgrims to Međugorje for more than 20 years, but owner Rea Karninčić confirmed that the number of pilgrims has been rapidly falling for the last two years. “Earlier, we would have pilgrim groups which would fill eight full busses with 55 seats, but now we are happy if we can fill forty seats in a single bus. That cannot be compared with previous years. Pilgrims from south of Italy used to travel on ferries to Split, while those in the northern part of the country came by bus. There has been a decline of both these groups”, explains Karninčić, confirming that, in addition to the economic crisis, Pope's criticism has led to a decline in organized pilgrimages. “Pope John Paul II seemed supportive of Međugorje, Pope Benedict did not declare his position, while Pope Francis is extremely critical, which affects the faithful. Although he occasionally issues statements that could be related to Međugorje, it would be good for him to express his official position, because it has been almost two years since he received a report of the international theological commission on Međugorje. In that way, organizers and people could decide what they want to do”, says Karninčić. According to unofficial sources, in contrast to the Italian visitors, pilgrims from Poland are coming in growing numbers. Unfortunately, official data on the number of pilgrims who come to Međugorje do not exist, and estimates are made according to the number of communions given – which means that a pilgrim can take five communions in five days and be counted as five visitors, while those who do not take communion are not counted at all. Still, the figure of about a million visitors a year could be correct. It is estimated that there are around 20,000 beds in various accommodation facilities, but there are no firm data. No wonder, given that 70 percent of buildings have been constructed illegally.
A positive first impression by the Pope's Bishop for Pastoral care in Medjugorje: http://crownofstars.blogspot.co.uk/
<<Gianni Mauro, the owner of the Mauro travel agency, announced in the Italian media that he would close his business, which was dependent on Italian pilgrims.>> Mauro operated the low-cost service for seven years, but then the Blue-Line “Queen of Peace” ship was impounded last October because it hadn’t paid a fuel bill and has since been sold. Mauro is 76-years-old and made the decision to retire. Mauro never criticised the Pope in the original report. It was the reporter’s opinion. There aren’t any quotes by Mauro in the original report where he points the finger at the Pope. Neither did or the reporter point out the difficult economic situation in Italy these past few years which has contributed in some part to the decline of Italian pilgrims visiting Medjugorje and Mauro’s business venture. But there are other ferry services operating the same route: Split-Ancona-Split. Interesting to note that the Pope’s new envoy has a brief to improve the pilgrim’s lot at Medjugorje. Which begs the question why the local bishop didn’t set out to do this and the Vatican has had to step in on the pastoral front.
If the Pope's envoy merely has a brief to 'improve the pilgrim's lot', I am surprised that he has not been informed that arrangements for pilgrims in Medjugorje are excellent and save himself a journey. I suppose that any place of pilgrimage that has been dealing with very large numbers of pilgrims for decades would naturally have acquired sufficient experience and expertise to have excellent arrangements in place. Why would the organisers of such a place need the assistance of someone without any background in providing or organising such arrangements? They wouldn't. Something else is going on with this visit, it has nothing to do with 'arrangements for pilgrims'.
Depends what you mean by “excellent arrangements”. High number of pilgrims at Medjugorje a challenge to the Church says Pope’s special envoy In a telephone interview with Vatican Radio on Monday, Archbishop Henryk Hoser explained his “special envoy” appointment as an example of the Holy Father’s concern for the situation in Medjugorje to be clear and orderly, and as the Pope’s envoy he is able to assess the situation on the ground and recognise any opportunties that arise. “Above all”, he added “it is about regular, pastoral reception of the millions of pilgrims coming to Medjugorje. This high number is a challenge for the Church and a call to improve the reception if possible.” Msgr Hoser also spoke of two crucial aspects regarding Medjugorje. “On the one hand are the phemomena and are the messages of the Mother of God genuine? This was the subject of the investigation by the special commission led by Cardinal Ruini. The second aspect is that which has been entrusted to me: it is about organising pastoral care, in agreement and harmony with the ecclesiastical hierarchy on the ground.” “Yes, I know there is opposition – or rather, we say, disagreement – but I cannot say anything in detail because I have never been to Medjugorje. This is where I can appear as someone who is neutral in this conflict.” Asked if his proposals might include the appointment of an apostolic administrator for Medjugorje, the Pope’s envoy said “Yes, this is not impossible. Perhaps one will have to supplement the structure of the hierarchy on the ground so that initiatives can be better coordinated and thus more effective. I must confirm that these are only hypotheses.” Msgr Hoser added that he did not know when his report to Pope Francis, or any other, would be published. Prayer answered says parish priest Medjugorje’s parish priest Marinko Šakota responded to the the news of the appointment of a special envoy saying: “This is an answer to prayer, a moment of grace and joy, and also a time of great responsibility for the parish of Medjugorje.” http://www.themedjugorjewitness.org
I am not at all surprised to see that the spiritual leader of the most controversial parish in the world possesses some diplomatic skill. He certainly needs it.
