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Poem of the Man God

Discussion in 'Books, movies, links, websites.' started by mothersuperior7, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. Frodo

    Frodo Angels

    Since this thread received a bump, I just wanted to add for those who may not know:

    If you must read this poem, which some would say would be very inadvisable ( http://www.ewtn.com/library/scriptur/valtorta.txt ), then remember this: it is only fictional.

    They cannot be considered supernatural in origin
     
  2. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    This gives me an opportunity to post this link to a very thorough refutation of all the critical articles. I have not previously seen this page:
    http://www.valtorta.org.au/refutation-of-anti-valtorta-articles.html

    Here are three pages that respond directly to Fr Pacwa's famous article:

    http://www.maria-valtorta.net/mitch_response1.html
    http://www.mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/001_Correspondence.htm
    http://www.sacredheartofjesus.ca/MariaValtorta/inDefense.htm

    Frodo rejects Medjugorje so Our Lady's recommendation falls on deaf ears for him. Pope Pius XII's recommendation might be a more hopeful possibility but he no doubt rejects that the Pope ever said anything about the book.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  3. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Well then St. Pooe John Paul likes fiction, cause this was a bedside book of his.
     
  4. Frodo

    Frodo Angels

    Frodo has never said he rejects Medjugorje. My opinion on the apparition site has nothing to do with the Church's stance on the book.

    The current stance is easily verifiable (the bold is mine, the underlining is the Bishop's):

    Dear Mr. Colafrancesco:

    His Eminence, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, in a letter which I received from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith this week, has asked me to inform you about the position of the Church regarding the writings of Maria Valtorta called The Poem of the Man-God.

    The Cardinal wants you to know that the Congregation in the past has issued certain “Notes” on this subject for the guidance of the faithful and these were published in L’Osservatore Romano.

    In the light of the recent recurrance (sic) of interest in the work, the Congregation has come to the conclusion that a further clarification to the “Notes” previously issued is now in order. Thus it has directed a particular request to the Italian Bishops’ Conference to contact the publishing house which is concerned with the distribution of the writings in Italy in order to see to it that in any future reissue of the work “it might be clearly indicated from the very first page that the ‘visions’ and ‘dictations’ referred to in it are simply the literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus. They cannot be considered supernatural in origin.”

    The implications of this most recent decision of the Holy See (Prot. N. 144/58 i, dated April 17, 1993) are obvious insofar as those who use, publish or sell the writings in question should know and clearly express the judgment of the Holy See as indicated in the underlined section of my previous paragraph.

    Hoping that this letter will serve as an authoritative response to the question which you addressed to His Eminence Cardinal Ratzinger in your letter of July 21, 1992, I am,

    Sincerely in Christ,​

    (Signed)
    Most Rev. Raymond J. Boland, D.D.
    Bishop of Birmingham in Alabama

    Frodo likes obeying Church authority and guidance.
     
  5. Frodo

    Frodo Angels

    Perhaps Fatima.

    I'm not really looking for an argument here. Just wanted to put the Church's judgement on the book out there for those who may not know.
     
  6. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    When I first came into the Catholic Church I wanted to get my hands of anything I could to bring me closer to Our Lord and Blessed Mother. Someone recommended that I read Maria Valtorta's Poem of the Man God. I ordered every book of hers and read them all. I can only tell you that I thoroughly enjoyed them, but at one point in one of the volumes I doubted what I had read, but continued to read. Just after my doubting, I read something about a man with 7 children who died suddenly from exhaustion. From what I remember, he was a farmer. That very day I read in the Palm Beach Post about a man with 7 children who died suddenly from exhaustion! As I have discerned that when I am answered by Our Lord in this way, I come to believe what I am reading. I wish I could post the article as I still have it in my book, but unfortunately my books are all packed as we are moving in a few months and I cannot access them. I just thought I would put this out there for anyone to discern for themselves. God bless you.
     
    Jeanne and Fatima like this.
  7. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Cardinal Ratzinger's letter is, I'm afraid, rather typical of documents coming from the CDF. The problem is when these documents are 'turned' into dogmatic beliefs by those who have a legalistic bent. When the letter states, "They cannot be considered supernatural in origin", it is understandable, yet mistaken, to believe the letter is actually saying "They are not supernatural in origin". Unfortunately, those who do not recognize the distinction, or who prefer to take it as absolute, are dismissing a truly remarkable gift from heaven that can really lead the soul to holiness.
     
    Julia likes this.
  8. Frodo

    Frodo Angels


    People of course can choose to read the book - but they must know the judgement of the Holy See - It cannot be considered supernatural.



    Definition of cannot

    1: to be unable to do otherwise ​


    It amazes me that some wish to turn ambiguous language into permission ( see AL) , and unambiguous language into ambiguous.

    The letter I posted is not from the CDF, but was written at behest of the CDF.

    The CDF speaks for the Holy See. It is quite clear - or as His Excellency states - is obvious:


    "The implications of this most recent decision of the Holy See (Prot. N. 144/58 i, dated April 17, 1993) are obvious insofar as those who use, publish or sell the writings in question should know and clearly express the judgment of the Holy See as indicated in the underlined section of my previous paragraph."


    Do you David acknowledge and clearly express the judgement of the Holy See regarding the Poem?
     
  9. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    The reply of a true legalist!

    The documents you are quoting from are all about trying to ensure that publications are not giving the impression that the Vatican believes the work to be supernatural. As for your statement, "The CDF speaks for the Holy See", we could have a very long discussion on that one. Does the CDF speak for the Holy Father? Sadly no, and we see here the errors that are now abounding on the internet where the Holy Father is dismissed as the one who leads the Church on earth. In fact, I saw recently Cardinal Muller had accepted that the purpose of the CDF was to advise the Pope on theological matters which is an encouraging recognition.

    The faithful are free to read the Poem. That is the end of the matter.
     
    Jeanne likes this.
  10. Carmel333

    Carmel333 Archangels

    Many years ago when I was first converted, I read all the books of the Poem of the Man God. I did not know they were condemned at the time. I had just spent a long time in a supernatural conversation about Truth with the Lord myself, so I was open to anyone that also had these experiences. HOWEVER, I found many, many problems in her writings that went against what Christ had told me. One of them is her writings on extraterrestrial beings and Christ. Also there was a spirit of contempt in her writings when speaking of Christ's feelings towards many He encountered that unsettled me. I cannot believe that she was not having SOME sort of supernatural help in getting all of that down, but I do wonder if the help was always from the Heavenly side. In the supernatural it is extremely hard not to be deceived by the devil, and TOTAL obedience to the Church is the only way to be safe from it. Her attitude was not one of obedience to the Church. So I must say if you like this sort of stuff perhaps stick to the writings of St Catherine or other saints that have written a detailed account of Christ's life.
     
    SgCatholic, josephite, Jeanne and 2 others like this.
  11. Thought I'd chime in, Valtorta's writings were instrumental in my conversion, so I'm a supporter.
     
    Sanctus, Julia, Patty and 2 others like this.
  12. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Msgr. Ugo Lattanzi, dean of the Faculty of Theology of the Lateran Pontifical University, advisor to the Holy Office (1951): "The author could not have written such an abundant amount of material without being under the influence of a supernatural power."

    Fr. Gabriel M. Roschini, professor at "Marianum," Pontifical Faculty of Theology in Rome, renowned mariologist, author of 130 books, and advisor to the Holy Office (1972): "I must candidly admit that the Mariology found in Maria Valtorta's writings, whether published or not, has been for me a real discovery. No other Marian writing, not even the sum total of all the writings I have read and studied, were able to give me as clear, as lively, as complete, as luminous, or as fascinating an image, both simple and sublime, of Mary, God's masterpiece."

    Prof. Fabrizio Braccini, University of Palerma (1979): "What constitutes the finish line for others, so to speak, is, on the contrary, Maria Valtorta's ascetic starting point."

    Dr. Vittorio Tredici, geologist and mineralogist, Italy (1952): "I wish to underline the author's unexplainably precise knowledge of Palestine in its panoramic, topographical, geological and mineralogical aspects."

    Fr. Gabriel Allegre, OFM, renowned translator of the Bible in Chinese, Macao/Hong Kong (1970): "The finger of God is here. As for theological justification of a book as convincing, as charismatic, as extraordinary even from a merely human point of view, as is Maria Valtorta's Poem of the Man-God, I find it in St. Paul's first Epistle to the Corinthians 14,6 where he writes, 'Take me, for instance, brothers, of what use could I be to you, if I were to come to you speaking in tongues, but without revelation or knowledge, prophecy or doctrine?"

    H.E. George H. Pearce, S.M., former Archbishop of Suva, Fiji, now active in Providence, Rhode Island (1987): "I first came in contact with the work of Maria Valtorta in 1979 . . . I find it tremendously inspiring. It is impossible for me to imagine that anyone could read this tremendous work with an open mind and not be convinced that its author can be no one but the Holy Spirit of God."

    Archbishop Alfonso Carinci, Secretary of the Congregation of the Sacred Rites (1946): "There is nothing therein which is contrary to the Gospel. Rather, this work, a good complement to the Gospel, contributes towards a better understanding of its meaning."

    Fr. Dreyfus, of the French Biblical and Archeological School, Jerusalem (1986): "I was greatly impressed on finding in Maria Valtorta's work the names of at least six or seven towns which are absent from the Old and New Testaments. These names are known but to a few specialists . . . How could she have known these names, if not through the revelations she claims that she had."

    Fr. Agostino Bea (future Cardinal), Jesuit, rector of the Pontifical Biblical Institute and advisor to the Holy Office (1952): "I have read in typed manuscripts many of the books written by Maria Valtorta . . . As far as exegesis is concerned, I did not find any errors in the parts which I examined."

    Wayne Weible, International reporter and speaker (1987): "I must tell you that I consider this book to be the greatest book I have ever read outside the Holy Scriptures. I am promoting it as the best source for details of the life of Christ and His Blessed Mother."

    Fr. Gino C. Violini, Calgary Alberta, Canada (1987): "It is the Gospel proclaimed with new vigor and detail. It is a powerful light beamed on the person of Jesus Christ and his eternal teachings. Indeed, this work appears to be the only true vision-and-word revelation on the Gospels ever granted to mankind."
     
    Patty and lynnfiat like this.
  13. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    In the words of a friend of many on MOG, Catholic theologian and of mystical study, Peter Bannister:
    "As for Maria Valtorta, I take her writings seriously without of course ruling out the possibility that there may be some interference from her own subjective imagination (which is not a criminal offence, just being human). Apart from anything else, as serious researchers have pointed out, the scientific evidence (both from Biblical archaeology and our knowledge of astronomy) massively corroborates the accuracy of what MV claimed that she saw in the Poem of the Man-God.
    ......."during the 20th century Heaven unleashed an absolute torrent of private revelation all over the world of whose proportions we are still largely unaware. A very few people such as René Laurentin, François Brune, Fr Joseph Iannuzzi and Fr Adam Skwarczynski have tried to point this out, but by and large their words have fallen on deaf ears... The likelihood is that - as was predicted in Medjugorje regarding Maria Valtorta and by Padre Pio with respect to Luisa Piccarreta - the truth will only come to light on the other side of the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart, by which point our view of world history and its interaction with the Divine is going to look very, very different"!
     
    Booklady, Julia, Patty and 1 other person like this.
  14. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Ottavio Michelini (14 August 1906 - 15 October 1979) of Mirandola, Italy was an Italian Roman Catholic priest, considered to be a mystic. In 1975 he began to publish books pertaining to his visions of Jesus and Mary.

    Michelini was a priest of the Diocese of Carpi, which obtained for him in 1967 the title of Monsignor as a Chaplain of His Holiness.[1]

    Although he never became a bishop, some websites that promote the writings of Maria Valtorta refer to him as "Archbishop Don Ottavio Michelini", combining the title of "Archbishop" with the contradictory Italian title of "Don" given to diocesan priests.[2]

    After his retirement, he spent the last years of his priestly ministry as a chaplain to an association of disabled people. He was a vital part of the new Marian Movement of Priests, founded by Father Stefano Gobbi in 1973. Starting in 1975, and for the last four years of life, he claimed to have received messages in the form of interior locutions and visions of Jesus and the Madonna. The messages were later published in a series of six volumes entitled "confidences of Jesus to a priest".

    The "confidence" of Jesus denounced the seriousness of the spiritual and moral issues facing the world today, the confusion and rebellion within the Church, highlights the shortcomings of the current ministry, as well as explaining that many of these problems are direct consequence of the profound crisis of faith that pervades the Church today. Furthermore, he claimed that the Lord revealed a future "cleansing" that followed "a new springtime of peace and justice for humanity and for the Church", a radiant dawn, never known before", Inauguration a "mid-term coming of Jesus" before the final one at the end of the world.

    On the writings of Maria Valtorta, whose Poem of the Man God was placed on the Index of Forbidden Books in 1960,[3] he claimed that Jesus dictated to him the following quote:

    I have dictated to Maria Valtorta, a victim soul, a marvelous work (The Poem of the Man God). Of this work I am the Author. You yourself, Son, have taken account of the raging reactions of Satan.... You have verified the resistance that many priests oppose to this work. This also proves, Son, that he who has not sensed in the Poem the savor of the Divine, the perfume of the Supernatural, has a soul encumbered and darkened. If it were -- I do not say "read" --but studied and meditated, it would bring an immense good to souls. This work is a well-spring of serious and solid culture.... This is a work willed by Wisdom and Divine Providence for the new times. It is a spring of living and pure water. It is I, the Word living and eternal, Who have given Myself anew as nourishment to the souls that I love. I, Myself, am the Light, and the Light cannot be confused with, and still less blend Itself with, the darkness. Where I am found, the darkness is dissolved to make room for the Light.[2]

    The particular Michelini book from which this quotation was taken is called La medida está colmada in its Spanish version and remains in the library of The Archidiocesan Minor Seminary of Monterrey in the city of San Pedro Garza García. It is worth noting that the first page of the book has a seal that reads "Biblioteca Seminario Menor de Monterrey Donativo del Sr. Emmo. Adolfo Antonio Cardenal Suárez Rivera", ("Library of the Minor Seminary of Monterrey Donated by Sr. Eminentísimo Adolfo Cardinal Suárez Rivera"). He was for many years Cardinal Archbishop of the Diocese of Monterrey. This Spanish edition of Michelini's writings where supposedly Christ himself defends Valtorta's Work, comes with a copy of two letters between Bishops (within the first pages). The first letter is from the Bishop of León, MéxicoAnselmo Zarza Bernal and is addressed to Bishop Miguel García Franco at the time Bishop of Mazatlán. The response to Bishop Zarza is the second letter. In the first letter, Bishop Zarza recommends to Bishop García Franco the reading and reflection of Michelini's book (where among many supposed dictations from Christ, there is one defending Valtorta's work), on response (second letter) Bishop García wrote: "I received your letter...that came with the book" (Michelini's Book) "...I find all the doctrine contained in the book 100% orthodox, more yet, in whole coincident with the writings of Mrs. Conchita Cabrera de Armida..." (the Venerable Concepción Cabrera de Armida a Mexican mystic in the process of canonization) "... and with the book of Father Esteban Gobbi (In Italian Stefano Gobbi), books for which we have ecclesiastic aprobation".[citation needed
     
  15. Thank you! Thank you! For this!!♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡



     
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  16. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Thanks to Peter B.
     
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  17. djmoforegon

    djmoforegon Archangels

    This is so wonderful! Thank you so very much!
     
  18. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I have thoroughly enjoyed reading The Poem of the Man God and I know my brothers are as well. The one on the Birth of Christ on Christmas night was awesome and gave details that made it a more holy night than anyone ever knew.
     
  19. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

     

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