Discussion in 'Books, movies, links, websites.' started by mothersuperior7, Sep 4, 2012.
I read some of the volumes but then heard they were condemned by the Vatican so I stopped.
Hello! I also came across the book. It's now in my possession but haven't read it. I asked my Spiritual Advisor and she said the Church does not approve. Time seems to be a valuable commodity lately that doesn't allow for reading other than my household bills. Mothersuperior7 it appears that you have quite a dissertation of the book and I hope that I will at least have the time to read that. God bless
I hope you do read it. I hope you read St. Faustina's Diary also. She was on the Forbidden book Index also.
This is a list of authors and works listed on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum. The Index was abolished on June 14, 1966 by Pope Paul VI.
A complete list of the authors and writings present in the subsequent editions of the index are listed in J. Martinez de Bujanda, Index Librorum Prohibitorum, 1600-1966, Geneva, 2002.
Some notable authors and intellectuals whose works are widely read today in leading universities worldwide and are now considered as the foundations of science were listed on the Index. E.g. Kepler's New Astronomy and World Harmony were quickly placed on the Index after their publication. Other examples of noteworthy intellectuals and religious figures who were on the Index include Martin Luther, Jean-Paul Sartre, Voltaire, John Calvin, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, René Descartes, Francis Bacon, Huldrych Zwingli, Blaise Pascal and Saint Faustina Kowalska. Francis Bacon, Galileo Galilei. Some authors whose views are generally unacceptable to the Church (e.g. Karl Marx) were never put on the Index; nor was Charles Darwin (see Evolution and the Roman Catholic Church).
This is not the only site that talks about the book being condemned by the Church, but since Father Mitch is a historian also, I felt he gave the best and most conclusive commentary on it.
I looked on the actual list from a link from the wikipedia site given, and as I expected St. Faustina's work was not on the list, for the simple reason St. Faustina's work was never on the forbidden book list. Fr. Mitch Pacwa did a special from Poland on St. Faustina and her diary and he explained that Faustina's work was never condemed or forbidden, but that Rome just sent the notebooks back to Poland asking for a better translation of her work which they did and then her work was published. But I find this argument used by all of valtorta supporters. Something very powerful happened to me when I went to read it, and now I wouldn't touch the book or have it in my house. I personally have since discerned things which I consider wrong in it. For instance Jesus' talk about the two judgements and the bodies doesn't seem to mesh with what Mary has said at Medjugorje.
Regarding St. Faustina’s Book: Also Pope John XXIII in 1959.signed a decree that placed the book on the Index of Forbidden Books and it remained on the Index for over 20 years. At that time It was felt that some of the writing was not theologically sound. It was removed from the list in 1978.
In entry #358 of the diary Sister Faustina foresaw the 1959 ban and subsequent lifting. She wrote of a momentary vision in which she became aware that the DM devotion would “only seem to be utterly undone” and witnessed the suffering that would endured by her confessor and spiritual director Father Michael Sopocko for his role in promoting and defending the devotion.
The erroneous reason for the ban was explained in the 1978 revocation: “This Sacred Congregation, having now in possession the many original documents unknown in 1959, and having taken into account the profoundly changed circumstances, and having taken into account the opinion of many Polish Ordinaries, declares no longer binding the prohibitions contained in the Notification"
Some notable authors and intellectuals whose works are widely read today in leading universities worldwide and are now considered as the foundations of science were listed on the Index. E.g. Kepler's New Astronomy and World Harmony were quickly placed on the Index after their publication.Other examples of noteworthy intellectuals and religious figures who were on the Index include Martin Luther,Jean-Paul Sartre, Voltaire, John Calvin, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, René Descartes, Francis Bacon, Huldrych Zwingli, Blaise Pascaland Saint Faustina Kowalska. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_authors_and_works_on_the_Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum
BISHOP ROMAN DANYLAK received a licentiate of sacred theologyfrom the Pontifical Urbaniana University and a doctorate of canon and civil law from thePontifical Lateran University.From 1973–1990, Bishop Danylak served as a consultor to the Pontifical Commission for the Revision of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches.
Fr. Pavich claims his own authority as a former seminary professor for his personal views, yet he rejects the authorities adduced by the editors ofThe Poem, men reputed not only for their ecclesiastical scholarship, but for their authority in the Church. (AND THAT WOULD GO FOR Fr. Pacwa too.)
The principle objections of the censors, that had placedThe Poem of the Man God on the index of forbidden books, were that the publishers of the first edition purporting to present private visions and revelations, had not submitted the work to prior ecclesiastical censorship, which is true.
…There was and is nothing morally, theologically or scripturally objectionable, nothing that is contrary to Church teaching or opposed to the authority of the Church, in Valtorta's works.-----
…I have studied The Poem in depth, not only in its English translation, but in the original Italian edition with the critical notes of Fr. Berti. I affirm their theological soundness, and I welcome the scholarship of Fr. Berti and his critical apparatus to the Italian edition of the works. I have further studied in their original Italian the Quaderni or notebooks of Maria Valtorta for the years from 1943 to 1950. And I want to affirm the theological orthodoxy of the writings of Maria Valtorta.--Bishop Danylak
I do not want to beat a dead horse here, but surly the information I have provided proves the Poem of the Man God is proven to be a book that is sound and worthy of reading and studying. We cannot let rumor lead us astray. We must let the authority of the Church and the ecclesiastical scholarship of those who do their homework and take the time to guide us through these falsehoods. The good Bishop has done just that and his credibility is impeccable.
Since following this forum, I can not believe how many so called seers and prophets are out there. They can not be all true as some contadict each other or the Gospel.
It is dangerous to follow false prophecies.
If the Church condemn any of them, right or wrong, it should be supported. They shouldn't be promoted where people (like me) suffer further confusion.
Jane, if you want some clarity, let me suggest that you read 'Trial, Tribulation and Triumph' by Desmond A Birch. It is a masterly and rigorously researched book using only Church approved sources which took several years to write. Among his conclusions are that there will be civil wars in Europe beginning in Italy and France and that the Russians and some Islamic nations will take advantage of the unrest to invade and this ties in with as yet unapproved statements by the Garabandal visionaries about our situation in Europe when the Warning is given to mankind.
I probably won't get to read this book. Although if I could get my hands on it I would. But it did read about it on the internet. Sounds interesting and sounds like what most of us believe.
The poem of the man God has been condemned by the Church, our first mission is to be in obedience to Our Holy Father.
Well I found this link and it is enough .
I will leave this thread up until tomorrow and then I am going to delete it; after people have had a chance to understand my reason why.
The very first thing; right at the start of The Catholic Cathechism it talks of the, 'Obedience of Faith':
Just like Our Blessed Lady; we must be obedient.
I. THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH
144 To obey (from the Latin ob-audire, to "hear or listen to") in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard, because its truth is guaranteed by God, who is Truth itself. Abraham is the model of such obedience offered us by Sacred Scripture. The Virgin Mary is its most perfect embodiment.
Abraham - "father of all who believe"
145 The Letter to the Hebrews, in its great eulogy of the faith of Israel's ancestors, lays special emphasis on Abraham's faith: "By faith, Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was to go."4 By faith, he lived as a stranger and pilgrim in the promised land.5 By faith, Sarah was given to conceive the son of the promise. And by faith Abraham offered his only son in sacrifice.6
146 Abraham thus fulfills the definition of faith in Hebrews 11:1: "Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen":7 "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."8 Because he was "strong in his faith", Abraham became the "father of all who believe".9
147 The Old Testament is rich in witnesses to this faith. The Letter to the Hebrews proclaims its eulogy of the exemplary faith of the ancestors who "received divine approval".10 Yet "God had foreseen something better for us": the grace of believing in his Son Jesus, "the pioneer and perfecter of our faith".11
Mary - "Blessed is she who believed"
148 The Virgin Mary most perfectly embodies the obedience of faith. By faith Mary welcomes the tidings and promise brought by the angel Gabriel, believing that "with God nothing will be impossible" and so giving her assent: "Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."12 Elizabeth greeted her: "Blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord."13 It is for this faith that all generations have called Mary blessed.14
149 Throughout her life and until her last ordeal15 when Jesus her son died on the cross, Mary's faith never wavered. She never ceased to believe in the fulfillment of God's word. And so the Church venerates in Mary the purest realization of faith.
Padraig, I went to the link. Its about Vassula Ryden....what has she to do with this thread?
Sorry Marti! I thought this one was one of Vissula's. I see it of course is not.
Apologies; this old dog can still hunt. I see it has the endorsement of two Catholic Bishops and the Holy Office is re reviewing it.
I must apologise again. The board has gotten very busy now. I have to go through about ten application a day for membership which needs checked out everyday before I get even to the forum and I feel Our Lady pressing me to write a lot more on prayer, this on the limited time before I get to morning mass. So if I am a bit quick firing my six guns please make allowances.
No apologies needed Padraig. You spend yourself and give of your time, talent and treasure to enlighten and educate us. I thank you and appreciate you. Have a beautiful Monday!
Anne Catherine Emmerich's books were considered by the Vatican as FICTION and never even considered when she went up for Beatification is something that MOST people don't know.
Maria Valtorta's book (might be fiction), but LEGAL to read. (look below)
Vicka's miraculous book that our Lady has dictated to her from Medjugore (and is suppose to be revealed to the world at a later date) are the ONLY TWO books to be recommended by the Blessed Virgin Mary.
I think that is pretty AWESOME!
And why was it that the Virgin Mary recommended the book at Medjugorje? The MOST RECENT information we have is the letter from Caritas of Birmingham (Alabama U.S.A.) to the Vatican; which can be seen here:
"The implications of this most recent decision of the Holy See (Prot.N. 144/58i) dated April 17,1993. Should be quite clear and as long as we keep the admonition of Cardinal Ratzinger in mind and repeat that admonition to others interested in this work, then Poem of the Man God by Maria Valtorta
CAN BE USED BY THE FAITHFUL therefore future printings of the work must contain the following admonition:
The 'visions' and 'dictations' used in the book Poem of the Man God, are simplythe literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way, the life of Jesus. They cannot be considered supernatural in origin...."Hoping that this letter will serve as an authoritative response to the question which you addressed to his Eminence Cardinal Ratzinger in your letter of July 21, 1992."I am,Yours in Christ,Most Reverend Raymond J. Boland, D.D.Bishop of Birmingham in AlabamaThis along with Bishop Danylak's defense of it, is why I defend it.
A C Emmerich NEVER claimed that her accounts were history, she called them her 'dreams'. Either they are (at least in some degree) fiction or the other accounts of Our Lord's life (e.g. Poem of the Man God and Mary of Agreda's accounts) must be, as they all differ in significant ways.
Below are downloadable Mp3 audio files of conferences by Father Vernard Poslusney on the greatest Poem of all, "The Poem of the Man-God" (The Gospel as it was Revealed to Me), by Maria Valtorta
This is quite an old thread but it is always good to make this wonderful work more widely known. Recommended by Our Lady in Medjugorje.
Here is a thorough website that discusses all the criticisms as well as the recommendations:
Separate names with a comma.