I admire you for taking contemporary prophecy seriously, Peter. On the whole I get the impression most theologians don't take such phenomena seriously at all. An exception was Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict) who as head of the Holy Office spoke of tales of Marian apparitions streaming into Rome from all over the world, on which account he spoke of this being a , 'Marian Age'. I have the impression that Pope Francis also is open to them. I take this view because of his great openness to the existence of the devil and Satanism as a lived reality rather than a metaphor. Yesterday for instance he spoke of zero tolerance for priest child molestors and referred to child molestation as being the equivalent of a , 'Black Mass'. I think most commentators missed the relevance of this. I think the Holy Father has a deep understanding of how Satanic Rites work and has had practical experience in dealing with this. If you understands the dark side of the occult it stands to reason he understands the mystical phenomena as well. You can't have one without the other. Or to put it bluntly I believe he has had hands on confrontation(s) with the devil. http://www.vosizneias.com/165879/20...abuse-to-satanic-mass-says-will-meet-victims/
Every approved prophet starts out unapproved, so I am open to every unapproved prophet out there until I’m given a reason not to. Unfortunately, the most recent ones I followed have all given me a reason to doubt their authenticity. Perhaps that’s the reason I’m not as interested in following new prophets as I used to be. The vast majority of them turn out to be false. This has helped me appreciate the guidance of Holy Mother Church even more and I am not ashamed for saying I don’t completely embrace any messages She hasn’t completely embraced. This isn’t to say that I need Holy Mother Church to discern every single apparition out there for me to make a decision. Some of them are so obviously false that I don’t have to wait for the Church to tell me so—such as Pedro Regis. In general, it's easier to confidently discern that a apparition is false than a message is true. An alleged prophet only needs to make one major flub up or theological mistake before outing himself as a phony. Discerning an apparition to be worthy of belief is much more difficult to do--if not impossible for a layperson. When the church commissions someone to conduct an investigation, she sends out the experts, not armchair theologians like us. These experts read every message, interview the visionary, his or her friends. They turn over every stone. Every phrase is checked for theological correctness. The visionary himself must be investigated...does he live a holy life, are there mental issues, is he a con? Verifying the accuracy of predictions takes years. Few of us have reliable and ongoing access to that kind of information. Therefore, we should approach every new prophet with caution. It's too bad that so many people seem to take the opposite approach. In getting back to your question, there aren't any recent prophets that I have followed for very long or investigated on my own without coming back disappointed. I think Our Lady of Zeitoun was a true Marian apparition. I’m still on the fence about Medjugorje, slightly leaning away from it. I’m still on the fence about Garabandal, slightly leaning toward it.
This is my beef with Pedro Regis. When the apparitions were first pointed out to me they were still relatively unknown. I started reading them and got into a discussion about it on the web. I pointed out some odd phrases that “Mary” had used throughout the messages, and explained why I found them so troubling. Shortly thereafter, the apparition website went down. A few days after that, it went back up. Lo and behold, the items that I criticized were no longer there. Because of this, I can’t even cite the parts of the messages I found “out of whack” with genuine prophecy. This means I can't build my case, because the items I criticized are gone. There's no point in me bringing it up with strangers on the internet, because they have no reason to trust me over someone who might be a genuine prophet. I don't feel the need to go through a lot of effort to convince anybody of my experience. As for me though, it was enough for me to dismiss Pedro as a charlatan.
Yes thanks Deanna, I was a little sceptical about them myself. Clearly if they are changing things around like this we can take it that these are false.
I also have some problems with Pedro Regis but the fact that they are coming from a non-English speaking country makes discerning very difficult. It seems to me that the test of authenticity of apparitions and locutions is always in the fruits but it is difficult to assess them in this case because of the language problem. Readers may like to view the following page which is a lengthy reflection on many of the messages by a chap who is sitting on the fence but speaks about the pros and cons: http://catholicdiatribes.wordpress.com/2010/06/10/a-look-back-at-the-messages-of-pedro-regis/
I had thought about maybe mistranslation and correction. But in matters like this things have not only to be above aboard but to be seen to be above board and transparent, like spring water. To do this they should have put up a public acknowledgement of the changes made and the ins and outs of why. Certainly common courtesy at least would have dictated an email to Deanna. Instead of being like spring water, this seems more like murky bog water.
( Maria Divine Mercy used to get up to similiar ducking and diving on her web site.) Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
Hm... This is quite an allegation and merits some careful investigation: I can certainly understand your reaction and agree with David that you at least merited an apology, although that presumably concerns Pedro Regis's apostolate rather than him personally. About when did this occur? Is there a trace of the web discussion somewhere? Were you reading the messages in the Portuguese original or in translation (this question is critical)? I would be extremely cautious before jumping to conclusions, not least because there is a possible domino effect here potentially affecting two other alleged visionaries, i.e. Agustin del Divino Corazon (Colombia), now a Franciscan monk, and Luz de Maria Bonilla. These are IMHO two of the most respected Latin American visionaries, so if they go down, it's serious. Let me explain why logically they are related to Pedro R.: - Agustin del Divino Corazon's purported locutions (of which I have read around 250 pages in Spanish and which struck me as very substantial) directly endorse Pedro Regis by name. - Last year, Luz de Maria Bonilla allegedly received a prophecy (in Spanish) concerning Lima-Italy-Russia, an identical combination of places to a message received by Pedro Regis a week beforehand. The chances of that particular convergence (and there have been others between these two sets of locutions) occurring spontaneously are astronomical. IF Pedro Regis is false, then it therefore presumably needs to be assumed that Luz de Maria is plagiarizing. Before dismissing Pedro Regis, it also needs to be said that whether retouching problematic expressions in locutions is acceptable practice is not as straightforward a question as it may seem: there are good precedents (e.g. St Bridget of Sweden) for messages being re-written in collaboration with spiritual directors, and in any case, there is always the possibility of human error on the part of the locutionary who may have made a mistake rather than being a fraud. Let me emphasize that I am not trying to say 'Pedro Regis is true, so there!' What I am trying to do is to clarify the discernment criteria given what's at stake here (a combined 50 years of messages to Pedro Regis, Luz de Maria and Agustin del Divino Corazon!!).
In the link I posted above in my last post, the writer quotes some specific problematic quotes from the PR messages. I copy them below: Days of suffering are coming. Don´t lose confidence. The prophets who have gone, will return to announce the day of the great warning. God will give you a chance to repent. Pay attention. 12/12/2009 Within this year will happen great events which I foretold in Fátima. August 30, 1988 Great events which I foretold in Fátima will happen this year. September 10, 1988 Great events which I have foretold in Fátima will happen this year. January 1, 1990 Many people go to protestant churches thinking they are of God. They are wrong. The people who take part in these are on the way to perdition for sure. Dear children, the religion founded by My Son, and which is of living faith, is Catholic. The rest are from the devil” April 9, 1988 Are these maybe these the messages that 'Rain' suggests have since been removed/modified?
Those aren't the messages. I can't recall criticizing a specific prediction, just general phraseology. One of the phrases I had criticized in the messages was the repeated use of “the three hearts” to refer to the Trinity. Only one Person of the Trinity has a heart, I pointed out in the discussion. Later on, when I back to Pedro's official website I didn't find a single reference to the “the three hearts”. I know I saw it used in several different places, but I didn't make note of the specific messages or dates, so perhaps they are still there and I’m just missing them. There is a lot to wade through.
It appears to have some ecclesial approval in the USA. Amazing I never heard of it. http://divineheartofgod.org/books/
The places where I saw the term used, it was in reference to 'God', not the hearts of the Holy Family. At least that's how I remember it. The discussion took place a few years ago and my memory isn't entirely reliable. Even so, I bow to the possibility that there may be theologically sound reasons for referring to the Trinity as the "Three Hearts", and it's just unfamiliar to me. However, that's no longer the hot button issue for me. The problem is with how the Pedro Regis website wiped out "three heart" references after someone questioned the orthodoxy. I also remember the phrase, "don't cross your arms", used repeated throughout the messages. In other words, it was saying don't make the Sign of the Cross. What an odd thing for Mother Mary to say. She never bothered to mention that she had a problem with the Sign of the Cross in any of her other appearances. I thought it could be caused by a language barrier of some sort. But when the phrase vanished from the messages, there was nothing even remotely resembling a possible correction in translation. It was just gone. Today is a reminder to me that I stayed out of the Pedro Regis discussions for a reason.
I've checked and found that they're still available in a 329-page pdf of messages from 1987 to 1996 http://www.pedroregis.com/arquivos/mensagens/ingles/Messages_of_1987_and_1996.pdf English translations aren't great, but the general sense is clear The one of April 9, 1988 in the Portuguese (which talks about 'protestant church' in the singular, not in the plural as in the English is reprinted at http://www.mensageirosdeanguera.com.br/category/igreja-protestante/ I agree that the final words about being 'of the Devil' is too extreme, but taking human factors into consideration I would put this down to prophetic immaturity. Having glanced through the first few dozen messages from 1987-1988 there is nothing else that should be controversial in them (we're definitely not talking MDM here...). In a subsequent message (n.93) of November 10, 1988, Our Lady alleged talks about 'all my children who have separated one from another, abandoning the true religon to go to religions founded by men'. That formulation regarding the unique status of the of the Catholic Church is far more in line with what we find in many other locutions. One thing that definitely requires investigation concerns the testimonies of alleged solar phenomena before a crowd estimated at 80,000 on September 29, 1994 (the anniversary of the apparitions). There is an eyewitness report in Portuguese from a former sceptic who changed his mind about Pedro Regis after the event. It is corroborated by a few other sources on the internet, but it would be good to have more evidence. http://www.pedroregis.com/english/testemunhos_leigos.php 'Eu Vi um Grande Sinal em Anguera'
Just to address the 'cross your arms' question, this is a matter of interpretation - I don't read it in terms of the Sign of the Cross, but more along the lines of 'don't just stand there with your hands folded'. This expression occurs regularly to this day in the Pedro Regis messages, so nothing is being hidden here.
T I think I may have found what you're referring to - message 2637 from April 1, 2006, which is still in the Portuguese archives and contains both a reference to 'Three Hearts' (Tres Coracoes) and 'do not cross your arms'. http://www.pedroregis.com/arquivos/mensagens/2006.pdf If so, my guess is that there's a misunderstanding here... Tres Coracoes is a place name in Minas Gerais Brazil where 'great suffering' is being predicted (along with Indonesia). Probably it got translated into English as 'Three Hearts'. I've already given my take on 'do not cross/fold your arms'. Let me just re-iterate: I'm not saying that Pedro Regis should necessarily be considered authentic (and even if he is, no prophet is infallible). It's just that we do need to consider the evidence as objectively as possible.
I happen to feel at this time that Pedro Regis messages are sound. I have read them extensively over the past 2+ years and believe that they also fit the conditions that Servant of God, Father John Hardon SJ guidelines for Visions and Visionaries in his youtube video below. Especially his humility.
For your discernment, the latest from http://www.pedroregis.com/mensagens_por.php (corrected Google translation) 3989-Message from Our Lady Queen of Peace transmitted 06/03/2014 Dear children, you are heading towards a painful future. Men and women of faith will be persecuted, prosecuted and convicted. The cross will be heavy for my poor children. Bend your knees in prayer. Seek Jesus. He is your All and only in Him will you find strength for your spiritual walk. Love and defend the truth. I am your Mother and I come from Heaven to tell you that you are important for the realization of My plans. Do not retreat. Those who remain faithful to the end will receive a great reward. Courage. This is the message that I give you today in the name of the Holy Trinity. Thank you for having allowed Me to gather you here once more. I bless you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Be at peace. 3988-Message from Our Lady Queen of Peace transmitted 31/05/2014 Dear children, I am your Mother and I come from Heaven to lead you to My Son Jesus. Entrust him with your own existence and let your lives speak of the Lord more than your words. Do not live in sin. Truly free yourselves and take up your true role as Christians. Fear not. My Jesus loves you and awaits you with open arms. If you happen to fall, do not become desperate. Seek the Mercy of My Jesus through the Sacrament of Confession and seek strength in the Eucharist, for only thus can you bear the weight of the trials that are already underway. You shall have long years of hard trials, but after all the tribulation will come a great time of peace for humanity. You will see the transformation of the Earth and the just will experience great joy. Courage. Trust in Jesus. I will speak to My Jesus for you. Forward without fear. This is the message I give you today in the name of the Holy Trinity. Thank you for having allowed Me to gather you here once more. I bless you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Be at peace. 3987-Message from Our Lady Queen of Peace transmitted 05/28/2014 Dear children, this is the time of sorrows. Intensify your prayers and remain firm in the truth. Stay attentive to my appeals. The treasures that I have given you can not be forgotten. Declare My messages and the Lord will reward you generously. I am your Mother and I suffer because of what is coming to you. You are heading towards a future of discord and divisions. Those chosen to defend the truth will retreat. Do not forget: the silence of the just strengthens the enemies of God. Courage. Love and defend the truth. This is the message I give you today in the name of the Holy Trinity. Thank you for having allowed Me to gather you here once more. I bless you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Be at peace. 3986-Message from Our Lady Queen of Peace transmitted 27/05/2014 Dear children, I am your Sorrowful Mother and I suffer because of what is coming to you. These are times of pain for men and women of faith. You are heading towards a future of great persecutions. The Church of My Jesus will bear a heavy cross. The throne of Peter will be shaken and many will regress. Love and defend the truth. Whatever happens, do not regress. Stay with Jesus. Seek Him in the Eucharist and strengthen yourselves in His word. Bend your knees in prayer. I will be by your side, although you do not see me. Trust in the Lord and He will lead you to victory. Courage. This is the message I give you today in the name of the Holy Trinity. Thank you for having allowed Me to gather you here once more. I bless you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Be at peace.
