Papal Puzzlery

Discussion in 'Positive Critique' started by padraig, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. Mark Mallett

    Mark Mallett Angels

    Beautiful, thanks for that word.
     
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  2. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    I think we are witnessing the disintegration of the visible Catholic church before our very eyes.

    No two cardinals or bishops teach or agree on the same thing. There is disunity. A heterodox way of thinking has entered into the seminaries and into the pulpits - the smoke of satan billows wherever it wants. A minority of the hierarchy and clergy uphold an orthodox position and defend catholic teaching but many have succumbed to the spirit of the age and to the spirit of bad theology taught in the seminaries. The crisis is only going to get worse and we will question whether Jesus is in the boat! It will be worse than the Arian crisis and the protestant revolution!

    But we must not leave the barque --

    A remnant exists that will keep the faith alive under the mantle of our Blessed Mother but prepare yourselves for the coming seismic shockwaves out of the Vatican.

    This is the age of Mary and the age of the laity.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  3. Mark Mallett

    Mark Mallett Angels

    Yes.
     
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  4. Mark Mallett

    Mark Mallett Angels

    Here is where I think you are being unjust. Read this, and tell me that the Pope is not reflecting your faith: https://www.markmallett.com/blog/2018/04/24/pope-francis-on/

    Is there not the possibility that this pope simply has a blind spot in a certain area related to mercy? Why does there have to be such extremes here? If a Pope is not perfect, then he must be evil? Really? This is precisely why I have defended Francis, or anyone for that matter. If we no longer have the capacity to see the good in another, then our own hearts need a re-examination. In the words of Cardinal Sarah, one of the great orthodox African prelates:

    We must help the Pope. We must stand with him just as we would stand with our own father. —Cardinal Sarah, May 16th, 2016, Letters from the Journal of Robert Moynihan​
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  5. Mark Mallett

    Mark Mallett Angels

    "To such as these the Kingdom of Heaven belongs." It's precisely this childlike heart that I see in many of my own readers who do not waste much time fretting over their bishops and popes. Back in the days when mass media did not exist, the saints weren't even aware what their popes were doing—good or bad—sometimes for years. Didn't matter. They were busy living and preaching the Gospel.

    There's no reason we can't do the same. Holiness and authenticity are the best antidote to the spirit of antichrist.
     
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  6. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Well said, Steve. Sad, but well said.
     
  7. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    I have been catching up this morning on this thread. It's great that Mark is taking the time to engage here with us. I have read his blog for many years and am a great admirer. However I see many problems in always looking for excuses for the many baffling statements coming from our Pope. I am one of those people who keeps my head down and prays but I am very glad that many theologians and prists and some cardinals are challenging the Pope. I see the damage being done to Catholic young people. Many young adults who were reared by faithful Catholic families will now quote a change of tone in this papacy to justify private conscience in relation to sexual morality e.g. contraception. Cohabitation, and even abortion. In my own family I have dealt with such questions by telling them ignore a lot of what they hear from this Papacy. We went to the Pope's Mass when he visited Dublin in August. We did this to stand in solidarity with all Catholics and because he is still Pope. Faithful Catholics still behave as they always did but we watch our families drift off the true path without any voice of leadership to call them back. Thank God for Cardinal Meuller and Cardinal Burke. I pray many more will begin to speak out.
     
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  8. Mario

    Mario Powers

    We can all agree on this!

    Safe in the Flames of the Sacred Heart!
     
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  9. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    This might have been the conclusion in 2013, 2014, even 2015. But this is 2019.

    Holy naiveté might be admirable in the few rare saints who have honestly had such, but this foolish credulity in the face of 6 years of error and bad acts on the part of this papacy makes such statements blameworthy.

    This false mercy has the same source as false humility; its being used in the wholesale tearing down of Christian morality. Anyone who seriously asks this question now in the face of the wholesale destruction of 2000 years of consistent moral theology needs to look in the mirror and ask himself why Christ taught that "were those days not shortened, even the elect would be deceived."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2019
  10. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    I don't think there was anything in Sunneyveils comment that implied the Pope is evil. I think the implication is that the Pope is misleading. We are the flock and the Pope is the shepherd. That is the role of the Pope. So why do you feel the need to defend everything he says?
    The Catholic Church it appears is what needs defending, especially when it's leader proclaims there is no Catholic God https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/pope_francis_571226
    I have been on this Forum for about as many years as I had started reading your writings, but I stopped reading them about a year ago when I noticed your blind spot when it comes to the leader of the Catholic Church. I did read Only Jesus walks on Water because it popped up on my computer and I thought you may be finally coming to the ugly truth of the situation but there you go again trying to hold on to some truth that no one else is seeing.
    There are prophecies that state the apostacy will go to the top, and I think we are seeing this now.
    Everyone on this Forum had high hopes at the beginning of Pope Francis election, this is traceable to the many quotes over the years on this Forum,
    I believe many left because of the division that was caused when many came to realize the Popes attacks on the true Catholic faith.
    It is true that the Pope needs our solidarity, but we need the Pope to defend all that was taught and handed down from the apostles.
    What kind of reform is Pope Francis aimed at?


     
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  11. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    Well said, I have and will continue to wear out my Rosary beads for the Pope and hierarchy to redirect the flock back to our Lord and to the truth, away from the chaos and confusion.
     
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  12. padraig

    padraig Powers

    If a dog were to bite me once Mark I might be inclined to give it a bye ball (if for instance it got excited in fighting another animal) . If however it made a habit of biting me, if it formed a habit of doing so I would adjudge it dangerous. I would not say, 'But he has nice fur!', he , 'Is loyal'. I would judge by his patterns of behaviour and if his pattern of behaviour is dangerous I would judge him by this.

    I would adjudge that the Holy Fathers pattern of behaviour is basically politically motivated, based on his political Peronist background. This is basically what you might call dodging and weaving. He will do and say one thing , then when the winds seem to strong he dodges and weaves and attempts to balance thing out by saying another. In other words, Peronism; being all things to all men. This rather than, 'Let your yes be yes and your no be no'.

    It is as if my dog bit me and then jumped up and licked me. Look for patterns in the Holy Fathers behaviour rather than individual incidents.

    Peronism is for instance why the Holy Father did not respond to the Dubia or Archbishop Vigano. He uses silence as a weapon. It is Peronist dodging and weaving.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Peronist

     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

    With respect , Mark this is a simplistic over generalisation.

    In Constantinople , for instance, historians report that along with chariot racing theology and arguing over theological points were the great pass time of the common man. Ordinary people used to stand in the streets furiously arguing slight points of theology in the great city.
     
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  14. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Frankly, I’m so sick of the new pharasaicalism that says “thank God I’m not like those pharisaical trads/ conservatives/ orthodox Catholics of little faith and poor (modern post VII) catechesis who fear Francis and his Mercy tm.”
     
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  15. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    Here in the US we have Republican politicians who are called rino`s. Oh, they say everything the Republican party spout and never contradict or go against Republican principles, but in reality do nothing to support them. In fact when push comes to shove they are on the other side. This pope will never go against the teachings of the church. However it is obvious , as noted through his actions, that he does not support them. He and his cohorts are cino`s, Catholic in name only. Pray God to end this chatisement.
    ,
     
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  16. Mark Mallett

    Mark Mallett Angels

    Is it Padraig? It's actually what Our Lady is saying in ALL her apparitions presently around the world. Become holy, defend the truth, pray for your shepherds. That's her antidote. The notion that, unless one spanks the pope on a forum or their social media, they are somehow a compromised Catholic, is nonsense. Neither is taking the Pope's words and trying to understand them in the context of Sacred Tradition compromise. It's doing due diligence. And when we can't square them away, our next step is to ask the Holy Father for clarification. And if he refuses to answer, we ask again. 98% of what the Pope has said can be understood in an Orthodox manner. His daily homilies are actually quite beautiful and rarely controversial, but also rarely quoted. HOWEVER, as one person pointed out above, the ambiguity of Francis' texts from plane interviews or Amoris Laetitia, and those willing to exploit that, has led to some people using that as an excuse for compromised lifestyle. So, as Cardinal Müeller has done, we need to as well.

    This is the trial that we are in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  17. Mark Mallett

    Mark Mallett Angels

    Who is saying that here, Brian? My critique has always been of those who descend into ad hominen attacks against the Holy Father and those who are far too quick to give the absolute worst interpreation to the Holy Father's words. It's disgusting, actually, and some people ought to be ashamed of their behavior. One can disagree with him and still maintain basic unity and decorum. If we don't, then the world looks on and sees not only confusion but a Kindergarten class of Catholics tearing each other apart. Who'd want to become a Catholic in that kind of mess?

    What a time we're living in.
     
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  18. Mark Mallett

    Mark Mallett Angels

    Why don't you just quote the Pope on abortion in that case?

    [Abortion is the] murder of an innocent person. —Sept. 1st, 2017; Catholic News Service

    Our defence of the innocent unborn, for example, needs to be clear, firm and passionate, for at stake is the dignity of a human life, which is always sacred and demands love for each person, regardless of his or her stage of development.Gaudete et Exsultate, n. 101

    Here I feel it urgent to state that, if the family is the sanctuary of life, the place where life is conceived and cared for, it is a horrendous contradiction when it becomes a place where life is rejected and destroyed. So great is the value of a human life, and so inalienable the right to life of an innocent child growing in the mother’s womb, that no alleged right to one’s own body can justify a decision to terminate that life, which is an end in itself and which can never be considered the “property” of another human being.Amoris Laetitia, n. 83

    How can we genuinely teach the importance of concern for other vulnerable beings, however troublesome or inconvenient they may be, if we fail to protect a human embryo, even when its presence is uncomfortable and creates difficulties? “If personal and social sensitivity towards the acceptance of the new life is lost, then other forms of acceptance that are valuable for society also wither away”.Laudato si’, n. 120

    In the last century, the entire world was scandalized by what the Nazis did to ensure the purity of the race. Today we do the same, but with white gloves. —General Audience, June 16th, 2018; iol.co.za

    Getting rid of a human being is like resorting to a contract killer to solve a problem. Is it just to resort to a contract killer to solve a problem? …How can an act that suppresses innocent life be therapeutic, civil or even human? —Homily, October 10th, 2018; france24.com

    Why not quote him on contraception?

    In accord with the personal and fully human character of conjugal love, family planning fittingly takes place as the result a consensual dialogue between the spouses, respect for times and consideration of the dignity of the partner. In this sense, the teaching of the Encyclical Humanae Vitae (cf. 1014) and the Apostolic Exhortation Familiaris Consortio (cf. 14; 2835) ought to be taken up anew, in order to counter a mentality that is often hostile to life… Decisions involving responsible parenthood pre-supposes the formation of conscience, which is ‘the most secret core and sanctuary of a person. There each one is alone with God, whose voice echoes in the depths of the heart’ (Gaudium et Spes, 16)…. Moreover, “the use of methods based on the ‘laws of nature and the incidence of fertility’ (Humanae Vitae, 11) are to be promoted, since ‘these methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them and favour the education of an authentic freedom’ (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2370).Amoris Laetitia, n. 222
     
  19. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Re read your post. You’ll get your answer.

    This pope is leading souls astray by his words and actions, omissions and commissions. People could literally go to hell by following their own pope right now.

    That imposed on me a DUTY to warn others lest they be lead astray. Our Lady would see this as no less a duty. Prophecy foretells of error and diabolical disorientation pushing all the way to the very top.

    It is quite frankly sinful to take this Pollyanna approach to these errors, and we’ll be judged for that.
     
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  20. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    Pollyanna is the perfect description of Mark's defence of PF.
     
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