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MALTA

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by mothersuperior7, Dec 25, 2016.

  1. The order of Malta is a very powerful organization. It's not a small matter that they were caught distributing birth control. It weakens the church when the children disobey. NOW I HOPE the Holy Father cuts the legs off the Catholic charities that the USCCB has coddled and fed with our money while passing out birth control to 3rd world countries. Shame on them!!
     
  2. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Don't hold your breath. The guy was removed because they were distributing contraceptives.

    Catholic Relief Services have just promoted their Chief Operations Officer to CEO and President, so it doesn't look like they plan on making any major policy changes.
     
  3. garabandal

    garabandal Powers


    Cardinal Burke was present when on 6 December Boeselager was sacked by the order’s Grand Master, Matthew Festing, with Burke reportedly telling the the German his dismissal was in “accordance with the wishes of the Holy See” as the distribution of condoms is contrary to Church teaching.

    So Pope Francis' investigation isn't concerned about the distribution of condoms but the nature of the sacking.

    http://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/6545/0/the-dubia-facing-cardinal-burke-over-order-of-malta-saga
     
    Byron likes this.
  4. So Cardinal Burke lied! Noooo way!
     
  5. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    We will see what happens when the investigation unfolds.
     
  6. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    We don't know whether Cardinal Burke lied. That claim was reported in a newspaper and attributed to those who are defending the man who was sacked. Wouldn't Cardinal Burke, as the Pope's appointee to the order make him a representative of the Holy See?

    Other reports are that the man who was sacked has a close association with some Cardinal who is also close to the Pope and that Cardinal was influential in having the dismissal investigated. The investigation, as Garabandal as pointed out, is not about whether the Order was distributing contraceptives because that isn't in doubt.
     
    Byron and Frodo like this.
  7. smudger

    smudger Guest


  8. I will always stand with the Holy Father!


    "Up the long ladder,
    hung down the short rope,
    To Hades with King William
    and God bless the Pope"
     
    mothersuperior7 likes this.


  9. much ado about nothing!

    another attempt by the anti-papists to
    divide the faithful & trash the Holy Father;

    Jesus settled this issue 2000 years ago:

    What ever the Pope declares bound will be bound;
    whatsoever he looses will be loosed.
    That settles it.

    I don't care much for "theologian" Ron Conte, Jr. but he may have gotten it right
    when he said that the next schism will be probably be conservatives breaking away
    from a Church they see as becoming too liberal;
     
    mothersuperior7 likes this.
  10. smudger

    smudger Guest

    The great irony is that those who profess to treasure and hold tradition dont actually seem to understand that in catholic theology, tradition is alive and constantly moving forward toward the consumation of the ages. I just posted on another thread about St Vincent of Lerins whose teaching (backed by succesive popes) on the development of doctrine says it should be matured and understood more through the centuries (he wrote that in the 4th century). Traditionalists actually do the opposite; they think the Holy Spirit stopped speaking to the Church back in 1962. Crazy! The Holy Spirit will continue to teach and gran greater understanding as long as the world continues because different circumstances and cultural contexts will mean diffrent angles will need to shine forth on eternal truths
     
    mothersuperior7 and davidtlig like this.

  11. I don't know if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? In fact, I don't know what point UR trying to make.
     
  12. smudger

    smudger Guest

    I was agreeing with you. My point was that some conservatives/traditionalists dont understand enough about the nuances in docrine (moral culpability) and the pope is the only one with power to bind on earth through his magiserium. If that involves a changes to pastoral discipline in certain probably rare cases then that is bound in heaven.they cant accept that sadly
     
  13. Rain

    Rain Archangels

    Like you, I'm someone who wants proof before accepting something as true. Since calling someone a femi-nazi is an extremely derogatory remark, I hope you wouldn't smear her name without having researched the facts. I'm curious as to how you've arrived at the conclusion that Carol55 is a Nazi-like feminist.
     
  14. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    If the Liberals and progressive heretics & apostates did not break away in the 70s & 80's when things did not go their way but remained in the Church then why would conservatives and traditionalists
    break away? Pope Francis is not going to be around forever as he has said so himself.

    As for Ron Conte --- he is a false prophet having predicted the warning & miracle several times becoming a laughing stock around the world.
     
    Byron likes this.
  15. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

  16. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    From the initial report in "The Tablet" http://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/6545/0/the-dubia-facing-cardinal-burke-over-order-of-malta-saga
    "What we know is that Cardinal Burke was present when on 6 December Boeselager was sacked by the order’s Grand Master, Matthew Festing, with Burke reportedly telling the the German his dismissal was in “accordance with the wishes of the Holy See” as the distribution of condoms is contrary to Church teaching.
    Boeselager, however, has hit back to say the Holy See wrote to the knights saying they did not call for him to be dismissed, while Festing told me that the row about condoms was resolved three years ago."


    From the most recent report in "The Tablet" http://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/657...d-wishes-of-pope-by-sacking-grand-chancellor-
    "Cardinal Raymond Burke and the Knights of Malta’s leader defied the wishes of Pope Francis and the Holy See when they sacked a senior figure in a row about the distribution of condoms.
    Letters seen by The Tablet reveal that Francis specifically requested no one be dismissed in a dispute that saw Albrecht von Boeselager thrown out as Grand Chancellor and then suspended from the Order.
    The respected German Knight was sacked on 6 December by the Knights’ Grand Master, Matthew Festing, in the presence of the Order’s patron and prominent conservative critic of Francis, Cardinal Burke. Both of them had claimed that the dismissal was in “accordance with the wishes of the Holy See”.

    Boeselager, who had previously run the Order’s charitable arm, had been accused of distributing condoms and failing to accept Church teaching on sexual matters - charges he strongly denies.
    But now it has emerged that Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin wrote to Festing a few days later clarifying that the Pope did not want Boeselager sacked. As a result, the Holy See decided to set up an investigation into the Knights.
    “I wish first of all to reiterate that these measures [the sacking and suspension of Boeselager] must not be attributed to the will of the Pope or his directives,” the cardinal wrote in a letter to Festing on 21 December. “As I expressed to you in my letter of 12 December 2016: ‘as far as the use and diffusion of methods and means contrary to the moral law, His Holiness has asked for dialogue as the way to deal with, and resolve, eventual problems. But he has never spoken of sending someone away!'”
    The cardinal goes on to say that the action against Boeselager must be seen as “suspended” until the papal commission into the saga has reported, something which will take place at the end of this month."


    Pardon me if I'm missing something, but where in either of those reports is it confirmed that anyone was aware that the Pope had expressed a wish that the man not be sacked prior to his actual dismissal on 6 December? In the absence of a specific Papal instruction to the contrary, wouldn't Cardinal Burke, as the Pope's Representative, have had the authority to give assent to the man's dismissal? Would the Cardinal have been obliged to request the Pope's permission in advance of the dismissal since it wasn't he but the the Grand Master who actually dismissed Mr. Boeselager? The letter written on 21 December refers to a request by the Pope contained in a letter from the Secretary of State on 12 December but that was six days after the event.
     
  17. Rain

    Rain Archangels

    I'm still waiting for 34ysp explanation as to why he called another forum member a feminist nazi. She is normally balanced, fair and respectful toward other forum members unless they repeatedly refuse to return the favor. Also, I've never seen her knock a person just because he's male, but I admit to not having read every single one of her posts. So without solid proof to the contrary, I'm going to draw a few negative conclusions of my own. Not about Carol55 though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  18. Harper

    Harper Archangels

    djmoforegon was included in the feminist nazi category; she clearly is not. I doubt MOG has ever had "feminist" members, as the term is used in the U.S.
     
    Booklady and Dolours like this.
  19. BrianK

    BrianK A Humble Part of the Remnant

    Hardly.


    https://www.ewtn.co.uk/news/europe/...lean-out-freemasons-from-the-knights-of-malta

    Pope ordered Card. Burke to clean out Freemasons from the Knights of Malta
    [​IMG]
    It has emerged that during a meeting between Pope Francis and Cardinal Burke in November about the scandal of the Knights of Malta distributing condoms and oral contraceptives in Africa, the Holy Father instructed Cardinal Burke to "clean out" Freemasonry from the order. The Holy Father gave this order to Cardinal Burke in his role as patron of the Knights of Malta by papal appointment.

    The Vatican journalist Edward Pentin revealed details of Pope Francis's concerns about the influence of the Freemasons on the Knights of Malta:

    Hopes that the contraceptive scandal would be addressed came on Nov. 10, when Cardinal Burke was received in private audience by Pope Francis. During that meeting, the Register has learned, the Pope was “deeply disturbed” by what the cardinal told him about the contraceptive distribution. The Pope also made it clear to Cardinal Burke that he wanted Freemasonry “cleaned out” from the order, and he demanded appropriate action. The concern was followed up by a Dec. 1 letter to Cardinal Burke, in which the Register has learned that the Holy Father underlined the cardinal’s constitutional duty to promote the spiritual interests of the order and remove any affiliation with groups or practices that run contrary to the moral law.

    Edward Pentin reports that Pope Francis was “deeply disturbed” by the evidence concerning Malteser International's distribution of condoms and oral contraceptives in the Far East and Africa during the tenure of Albrecht Freiherr von Boeselager, a German Knight of Malta. Boeselager was dismissed as grand chancellor following an internal investigation by the Knights of Malta. It is not clear why Pope Francis specifically identified Freemasonry as a problem in his response to the evidence presented by Cardinal Burke during the November meeting.

    Pope Francis has previously criticized the destructive influence of the Freemasons and their hostility towards the Church. During his address to young people during his apostolic visit to Turin the Holy Father spoke about "Masonic, hardcore anticlericals and Satanists":

    At the end of the 19th century there were the worst conditions for young people’s development: freemasonry was in full swing, not even the Church could do anything, there were priest haters, there were also Satanists.... It was one of the worst moments and one of the worst places in the history of Italy. However, if you would like to do a nice homework assignment, go and find out how many men and women saints were born during that time. Why? Because they realized that they had to go against the tide with respect to the culture, to that lifestyle.

    It was during his in-flight press interview in July 2013 that Pope Francis first expressed his concerns about the influence of Freemasons on the Church:

    “The problem is not having this [homosexual] orientation. No, we must be brothers and sisters. The problem is lobbying for this orientation, or lobbies of greed, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the most serious problem for me."

    Comment

    2017 marks the 300th anniversary of the foundation of Freemasonry with the establishment of the first Grand Lodge in London. It is important for Catholics to remember that Freemasonry has a history of plotting against the Catholic Church. During the 200th anniversary of the foundation of Freemasonry St Maximilian Kolbe witnessed Freemason conduct sacrilegious demonstrations in Rome. In front of St. Peter's Freemasons displayed banners declaring, "Satan must reign in the Vatican. The Pope will be his slave". St Maximilian Kolbe summed up the objectives of Freemasonry:

    "In particular, it aims to destroy the Catholic religion. Their deceits have been spread throughout the world, in different disguises. But with the same goal -- religious indifference and weakening of moral forces, according to their basic principle -- 'we will conquer the Catholic Church not by argumentation, but rather with moral corruption'." (Kolbe -- Saint of the Immaculata, p. 32).

    It is important that during the 300th anniversary of the foundation of Freemasonry that Catholics pay heed to Pope Francis's warnings about the continuing dangerous influence of Freemasonry on the Church.
     
  20. earthtoangels

    earthtoangels Powers

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/issues/january-13th-2017/the-knights-who-wont-retreat/


    Perhaps this Pope is a bit "wilier" than expected. He both wishes to cleanse this order of moral misconduct but at the same time not perhaps to let the "powers that be" there to use such excuses to rid themselves of the otherwise faithful (the ousted one being the son of a man who participated in the secret move to get rid of Hitler), while perhaps permitting Freemasons to remain hidden within.

    Re: the cleansing of FreeMasons hiding within such "Orders" of elitist titles:

    A lot of "officially" approved groups ought to be looked into as well.....like "Knights of the Holy Sepulchre"; "Legatus" with its membership requirements for businessmen, etc.
     

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