The problem is that a large number of novus ordo masses are missing one of those. I've been to masses where the words were changed, where the proper matter wasn't used, and where the intention was definitely questionable (the priest literally slammed the host back onto the altar and wouldn't bow, let alone genuflect). I'm only 33 and only knew the novus ordo until last year, so I don't have some long history of anti novus ordo past. However I have endured MANY abuses of the mass my whole life, and have come to an extremely negative view of it, that I'm sure many here disagree with. I'm also convinced that most people aren't even aware if the mass is being done correctly and wouldn't know otherwise, as we have been conditioned to accept "small, insignificant" changes at the whim of a priest who actually has no authority to do it. I shall stick with the mass that all the saints of our 2000 year tradition have gone to, and I very firmly believe that at the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart it will be the ONLY Mass. peace.
Just to clarify, he didn't leave the Church. He was a Jesuit and when he saw what was happening in that order and in the Church after Vatican II he requested to be released from his vow of obedience. He also asked to be released from his vow of poverty because he would then need to earn a living. His requests were granted by the Holy See. He retained his vow of chastity and he died in good standing. He was never forcibly laicized or ejected from the Church.
I agree with you in that I think after the Triumph, there will only be one Mass for the Latin Rite and it will be the Mass of all time. We do however live in confusing times and many Catholics attend the new Mass because it is all they have ever known or the Latin Mass is just not available where they live. We know the Novus Ordo is valid in that it can confect the Eucharist if done properly. One of the troubles today is that it may not be being done properly in many instances. We have no idea how often it is the case that no Transubstantiation happens. One hint Fr. Malchi Martin used to give when one was searching to discover a good parish to go to is to look at how the priest behaves before the Tabernacle. Is he very reverent or does he walk back and forth by it with a quick nod, or even no acknowledgement. That is a good indication if he truly believes he is in the Presence of God or not. Of course there is also the whole issue of a Mass being valid, but not licit. They are not the same thing. Russian Orthodox Liturgies are valid in that they confect the Eucharist, but they are not licit. If someone is attending a Mass of any kind with certain novelties in it then the Mass may or may not validly confect the Eucharist, but it also may not be licit. I would suggest if people can that they go to the Latin Mass purely for safety's sake. The number of priests who join traditional orders and believe in the Real Presence is most probably much higher compared to diocesan priests. The Latin Mass is said in a very specific way and the priests do not innovate. There is a reason that 95% of all the great sermons people post on the forum here are from Traditional priests. I would encourage people to go where the good fruit is if they can.
I just stay away from priests with a complicated history with the Church Period The end We have been in this same conversation in different times
That is totally fine. I am not trying to convince anyone of any particular priest. I just wanted to clarify for anyone who may be scanning through these pages and think that Fr. Malachi Martin was under some sort of interdict or something like that. Nothing of the sort is the case. Partially off topic, but for anyone who may be reading through here and is wondering why I keep saying his full name every time. I didn't use to, but now we have another Fr. Martin on the Church stage and if I just used his last name then people may Google his name and get the wrong person. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Well, I would say that a lot of parish priests have a "complicated history with the Church." One specific priest had a "complicated history with the Church" because he refused to use the words of absolution in the confessional. Another one I overheard telling a young man that the solitary sin was "just normal behavior." Another one told my 18 year old sister that it wasn't always a mortal sin to have premarital sex. One I knew constantly snickered at me openly for receiving the Lord on the tongue. Another I knew like to consecrate Hawaiian sweet rolls (for those who know what they are). Another priest I knew liked to have those having a birthday to come up to the altar and blow out the altar candles and have the congregation sing the Happy Birthday song before the Mass was even over. THESE are the priests that have a "complicated history with the Church" because THEY are not following Her teachings, THEY are the ones leading the faithful into heresy and error and their souls to perdition. THEY are the ones that the faithful should stay away from and should keep their children away from. Too often people become so used to these types of things that we shrug our shoulders and say it's no big deal, it's common, what can you do, it's all I got. I call baloney. I homeschool my 5 children and when we moved last year my husband was making a whooping $10 an hour and going to school. But we moved. On $10 an hour in a family of 7, with no promises of a future job at the time. If a person has nothing but error and questionable masses, then move. Your soul and your childrens' souls could depend on it. Yes, it sounds harsh and drastic, but these are the times we live in.
Sorry for your rant My experience is quite different Thank you for sharing yours I can never get into a discussion with you about the Mass because our experiences and our journeys are so different You can have the last word
Bravo Divine Mercy. You are a brave and good mother (and father. )You and your husband did an heroic thing for your children. May God richly bless you.
The sacrifice to home school is difficult because a family is embracing just not a different educational choice, but a different lifestyle. My wife and I chose to do so when my oldest child, Benjamin, was in 6th grade and was being negatively influenced by his teacher. That was in the 1990s. Our youngest child, Daniel, finished high school in 2016. For us, the greatest benefit of homeschooling is the ability to not only fine tune the curriculum, but especially to fit in family prayer and a few daily Masses each week. I remember when my oldest daughter, Rachel, went off to college, she promised never to homeschool. Once her oldest was born, she admitted that homeschooling was necessary given the educational climate in California. She has also reintroduced a number of the family traditions she grew up with. Her family is co-oping with other families. DivineMercy, I commend you and your husband. Your choice will bear lasting fruit. Home schooling is not perfect, but I believe it is the best alternative out there. My six children are happy and faith-filled adults. Praised be the Two Hearts who watched over us on the journey!
I don't know about the ONLY Mass after the Triumph being in Latin. I don't think we even know whether the first Mass said at the Last Supper said was in Aramaic, Greek or Hebrew??? What I do know is that the Church will be One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic and His Divine Will will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Ugh. Eyes rolling... I think Fr. (Malachi) Martin saw what was happening in the Jesuits (his beloved Jesuits) and he fled feeling he could better fight things from the outside. It must have saddened him greatly to see the destruction of the order. If he was alive today I think he would be devastated by what they are doing.
Yes Divine Mercy The actions that help to destroy belief in the Real Presence is mostly caused by priests and bishops. The actions of the priests you mention are horrific, but they have a very strong negative impact on the people at the Mass; it should not be permitted, but I suppose the Bishops know of these happenings and still do nothing. While my experience has not been as awful as what you describe, I have noticed an increasing number or priests that (a) do not go to the tabernacle themselves but lay persons open the tabernacle to bring the chalice of hosts to the altar (b) present the paten to the deacon to retrieve and give himself the sacred Host [and more recently I likewise noticed an elderly priest presenting the paten for extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion to retrieve and consume the Hosts themselves] (c) at or before Mass some priests advise the preferred way to receive the Host is by hand, but there are still a few of us who only receive on our knees and on the tongue (d) no effort to stop chatter before or after Mass. All of this has a negative impact on souls. However, most important is the sense of the Reality of the the Divine is missing in Novus Ordo Masses. The demeanour of the celebrant or the people is the same after the consecration as before. No extra effort is made to acknowledge Jesus' presence on the altar by genuflecting (mostly just a bow). sometimes we have just about returned to our pews from Communion, when the prayer of dismissal is said. As I may have mentioned before, I still prefer the Novus Ordo Mass for the mere fact it is said in English; my soul immediately responds (without having to look for an English translation). In my view, just that alone is all that should have been allowed to happen in the Novus Ordo Mass. God Bless
The way things are going here, we'll be hiding our priests in the attic and will be grateful for Mass in any language.
The Catholic Church has always been known for it's clear Teaching in the areas of morals. I think a proclamation should be made by the Church just so we are all totally clear on Church Teaching in several areas. That any use of contraception is inadmissible. That the sin of homosexual sex is inadmissible. That adultery with a second person after you are sacramentally married is inadmissible. That homosexual clergy are inadmissible. That abusing children and seminarians is inadmissible. That the heresies running rampant in the Church are inadmissible. Is this true or am I misunderstanding the meaning of the word inadmissible? in·ad·mis·si·ble ˌinədˈmisəb(ə)l/ adjective 1. (especially of evidence in court) not accepted as valid. synonyms: unallowable, not allowed, invalid, unacceptable, impermissible, disallowed, forbidden, prohibited, precluded "inadmissible evidence" 2. not to be allowed or tolerated. "an inadmissible interference in the affairs of the Church"
Yes, and all the ambiguity we have been hearing for the past 3+ years is not of God. He speaks in clear, "let your yes be yes and your no be no" language. And when those around him seemed confused he spoke in parables so they could understand with clarity. For me, this is the biggest indicator of the devil infiltrating the highest offices within the Catholic Church. Twist and bend teachings of scripture so they fit the culture is not of God.
