stephen said: ↑ The simple reason is that he was not prepared to then because the revelations were not yet approved, but since 1993 there have been plenty of quotes from JP II. Lets not twist the truth. Is this supposition on your part, or do you have documentation that JPII "was not prepared to then because the revelations were not yet approved"? MarkW, Yesterday at 2:00 PMReport #1313 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-66>
Jon said: ↑ MarkW said: ↑ Stephen - I'm a little confused. Are you talking about the "millennial reign of Christ" as the Evangelicals believe? I thought that was what JPII and Cardinal Ratzinger spoke against. It's my understanding that there is no contradiction between the last judgement and the potential era of peace, but that the millennial reign of Christ is contradictory to Catholic eschatological understanding. In fact, isn't there a defined heresy about the millennial reign idea? I seem to remember reading that somewhere. From what I've read, I don't think there are any accepted private revelations within Catholicism that leans toward the millennialism ideas ("accepted" meaning both approved and canonized authors), but that none of these private revelations contradict an era of peace. From one of the Church Fathers: "Therefore, since all the works of God were completed in six days, the world must continue in its present state through six ages, that is, six thousand years. For the great day of God is limited by a circle of a thousand years, as the prophet shows, who says In Your sight, O Lord, a thousand years are as one day. And as God laboured during those six days in creating such great works, so His religion and truth must labour during these six thousand years, while wickedness prevails and bears rule. And again, since God, having finished His works, rested the seventh day and blessed it, at the end of the six thousandth year all wickedness must be abolished from the earth, and righteousness reign for a thousand years; and there must be tranquillity and rest from the labours which the world now has long endured. But how that will come to pass I will explain in its order. We have often said that lesser things and things of small importance are figures and previous shadowings forth of great things; as this day of ours, which is bounded by the rising and the setting of the sun, is a representation of that great day to which the circuit of a thousand years affixes its limits. In the same manner also the fashioning of the earthly man held forth to the future the formation of the heavenly people. For as, when all things were completed which were contrived for the use of man, last of all, on the sixth day, He made man also, and introduced him into this world as into a home now carefully prepared; so now on the great sixth day the true man is being formed by the word of God, that is, a holy people is fashioned for righteousness by the doctrine and precepts of God. And as then a mortal and imperfect man was formed from the earth, that he might live a thousand years in this world; so now from this earthly age is formed a perfect man, that being quickened by God, he may bear rule in this same world through a thousand years. But in what manner the consummation will take place, and what end awaits the affairs of men, if any one shall examine the divine writings he will ascertain. But the voices also of prophets of the world, agreeing with the heavenly, announce the end and overthrow of all things after a short time, describing as it were the last old age of the wearied and wasting world. But the things which are said by prophets and seers to be about to happen before that last ending comes upon the world, I will subjoin, being collected and accumulated from all quarters." Lactantius Divine Institutes, Book VII Fear of being accused of the heresy of millenarianism (earthly reign of Christ for 1000 years in the flesh), has kept people from understanding that the "Day of the Lord" may be a 1000 year "Day" where Christ reigns through His Church and His Holy Spirit after the vanquishing of evil (The Triumph of the Immacualte Heart). ...As Mary brought forth the Redeemer of the world in His humanity, then Mary, as the Queen of Heaven, the Woman Clothed with the Sun of Revelation 12, has a chosen role in bringing forth the Redeemer in his Divinity now for that "Day of the Lord". Jon the Day of the Lord refers to the time from Jesus' Second Coming. I consulted while writing my book one of the most eminent theologians who has worked for the congregation for the Doctrine of the faith for years (Cardinal Karl Josef Becker) and he said all millenial theories are ruled out completely. These Church Fathers who advocated a temporal Kingdom were wrong. In my book you will see the great contradiction for instance between what Fr Iannuzzi has written and what Pope Benedict and John Paul II have said. Pope John Paul was unequivocal in that evil will remain until the last judgment-as did Benedict state also on several occasions. Also the CDF ruled negatively on Vassula ryden because she advocated an era of peace before the end of the world stephen, Yesterday at 2:48 PMReport #1314 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-66>
From the CDF document on vassula Ryden:signed by Cardinal ratzinger: "In addition to pointing out the suspect nature of the ways in which these alleged revelations have occurred, it is necessary to underscore several doctrinal errors they contain. Among other things, ambiguous language is used in speaking of the Persons of the Holy Trinity, to the point of confusing the specific names and functions of the Divine Persons. These alleged revelations predict an imminent period when the Antichrist will prevail in the Church. In millenarian style, it is prophesied that God is going to make a final, glorious intervention which will initiate on earth, even before Christ's definitive coming, an era of peace and universal prosperity." stephen, Yesterday at 2:51 PMReport #1315 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-66>
I don't know why you are painting any comment I have posted with the name of a condemned visonary. That technique is not valid. Jon, Yesterday at 3:08 PMReport #1316 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-66>
stephen said: ↑ Jon the Day of the Lord refers to the time from Jesus' Second Coming. I consulted while writing my book one of the most eminent theologians who has worked for the congregation for the Doctrine of the faith for years (Cardinal Karl Josef Becker) and he said all millenial theories are ruled out completely. These Church Fathers who advocated a temporal Kingdom were wrong. In my book you will see the great contradiction for instance between what Fr Iannuzzi has written and what Pope Benedict and John Paul II have said. Pope John Paul was unequivocal in that evil will remain until the last judgment-as did Benedict state also on several occasions. Also the CDF ruled negatively on Vassula ryden because she advocated an era of peace before the end of the world This is what Mark Mallett has to say on this subject,... http://www.markmallett.com/blog/2010/01/on-heresies-and-more-questions/#more-539 sunburst, Yesterday at 3:54 PMReport #1321 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
Jon said: ↑ I don't know why you are painting any comment I have posted with the name of a condemned visonary. That technique is not valid. Jon, the point I was making was that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has ruled out an era of peace within history. In this discussion, it doesnt matter that Vassula Ryden was on the receiving end of this judgment. The fact remains that many many people hold the same belief as Mrs Ryden., therefore the quote is absolutely relevant. I am sorry that you took it the wrong way. stephen, Yesterday at 8:41 PMReport #1322 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
sunburst said: ↑ This is what Mark Mallett has to say on this subject,... http://www.markmallett.com/blog/2010/01/on-heresies-and-more-questions/#more-539 Mark Mallett basically adheres to Fr iannuzzi's thesis about a coming temporal Kingdom before the end, but again it has been ruled out completely. In that thread he again confuses terms like "second coming". The fact is, the second coming is only ever used by the popes and the catechism as referring to the coming of Jesus at the end of the world. Mark Miravalle is guilty of the same thing. The fact remains that in order to come to an idea about an era of peace within history, terminology has to be manipulated. For instance many of you will have read that St Bernard wrote about an "intermediate coming" of Jesus which supposedly fits perfectly with this temporal kingdom theory. Unfortunately, again manipulation of the truth has been used. Both JP II and Benedict XVI have explained on several occasion that St Bernard was explaining the coming of Jesus throughout history in his sacraments. They have never once said it refers to some point in the future heralding a temporal reign. Also there is a false understanding of the Book of Revelation. It cannot be reduced to seeking some kind of chronological order of events. although there have been precursors of the Antichrist through history, there will be only one final man who will be the recapitulation of all evil and he comes at the end of the world. Pope Benedict confirmed that in a general audience in November 2008. stephen, Yesterday at 9:03 PMReport #1323 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
stephen said: ↑ Jon, the point I was making was that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has ruled out an era of peace within history. In this discussion, it doesnt matter that Vassula Ryden was on the receiving end of this judgment. The fact remains that many many people hold the same belief as Mrs Ryden., therefore the quote is absolutely relevant. I am sorry that you took it the wrong way. Stephen, can you show me where the CDF has ruled out an era of peace within history? Please be specific. The only thing that I know of that has been ruled our is the heresy of millenarianism, which is the false teaching the Jesus will physically in the flesh live her on earth for 1000 years as a king before the ned of the world. See MM link http://www.markmallett.com/blog/2010/01/on-heresies-and-more-questions/#more-539. "Through the rosary and the scapular I will one day save the world" BVM Fatima, Yesterday at 9:04 PMReport #1324 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
Fatima said: ↑ Stephen, can you show me where the CDF has ruled out an era of peace within history? Please be specific. The only thing that I know of that has been ruled our is the heresy of millenarianism, which is the false teaching the Jesus will physically in the flesh live her on earth for 1000 years as a king before the ned of the world. See MM link http://www.markmallett.com/blog/2010/01/on-heresies-and-more-questions/#more-539. Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith NOTIFICATION* Many Bishops, priests, religious and lay people have sought an authoritative judgement from this Congregation on the activity of Mrs Vassula Ryden, a Greek Orthodox residing in Switzerland, who in speech and in writing is spreading in Catholic circles throughout the world messages attributed to alleged heavenly revelations. A calm, attentive examination of the entire question, undertaken by this Congregation in order to "test the spirits to see whether they are of God" (cf. 1 Jn 4:1), has brought out – in addition to positive aspects – a number of basic elements that must be considered negative in the light of Catholic doctrine. In addition to pointing out the suspect nature of the ways in which these alleged revelations have occurred, it is necessary to underscore several doctrinal errors they contain. Among other things, ambiguous language is used in speaking of the Persons of the Holy Trinity, to the point of confusing the specific names and functions of the Divine Persons. These alleged revelations predict an imminent period when the Antichrist will prevail in the Church. In millenarian style, it is prophesied that God is going to make a final, glorious intervention which will initiate on earth, even before Christ's definitive coming, ah era of peace and universal prosperity. Furthermore, the proximate arrival is foretold of a Church which would be a kind of pan-Christian community, contrary to Catholic doctrine. The fact that the aforementioned errors no longer appear in Ryden's later writings is a sign that the alleged "heavenly messages" are merely the result of private meditations. Moreover, by habitually sharing in the sacraments of the Catholic Church, even though she is Greek Orthodox, Mrs Ryden is causing considerable surprise in various circles of the Catholic Church. She appears to be putting herself above all ecclesiastical jurisdiction and every canonical norm, and in effect, is creating an ecumenical disorder that irritates many authorities, ministers and faithful of her own Church, as she puts herself outside the ecclesiastical discipline of the latter. Given the negative effect of Vassula Ryden's activities, despite some positive aspects, this Congregation requests the intervention of the Bishops so that their faithful may be suitably informed and that no opportunity may be provided in their Dioceses for the dissemination of her ideas. Lastly, the Congregation invites all the faithful not to regard Mrs Vassula Ryden's writings and speeches as supernatural and to preserve the purity of the faith that the Lord has entrusted to the Church. Vatican City, 6 October 1995. Joseph Card. Ratzinger Prefect Tarcisio Bertone, S.D.B.Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli Secretary * L’Osservatore Romano, English Edition, N. 43, 25 October 1995, Page 12. stephen, Yesterday at 9:08 PMReport #1325 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
stephen said: ↑ In millenarian style, it is prophesied that God is going to make a final, glorious intervention which will initiate on earth, even before Christ's definitive coming, ah era of peace and universal prosperity.. Stephen, the key word to this CDF's pronouncement is "millenarian style". Millenarian indicates Christ's literal, physical presence, walking the face of the earth. This is what is condemed by the Church and Cardinal Ratzinger's writting above. However, an era peace is not condemened in any teaching of the faith. In fact it has many Church Fathers, as well as, the Mother of God pronouncing such a period. "Through the rosary and the scapular I will one day save the world" BVM Fatima, Yesterday at 9:49 PMReport #1326 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
No Fatima, that is wrong. Have you got my book yet? stephen, Yesterday at 9:52 PMReport #1327 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
Since the beginning of my Pontificate, I invited the universal Church to turn her gaze to the advent of the third millennium, imminent; I also had the opportunity to point out that this is not "to indulge in a new millenarianism" (Tertio millennio adveniente, n. 23), with the temptation to predict substantial changes in it in the life of society as a whole and of every individual. Human life will continue, people will continue to learn about successes and failures, moments of glory and stages of decay, and Christ our Lord always will, until the end of time ,be the only source of salvation Pope John Paul ad limina to Brazilian bishops, 29 January, 1996 Fatima there are differing versions of millenarianism even liberation theology is one. Notice the Pope does not refer to the idea of a physical reign of Christ, for him it is even just the idea of substantial changes that is also wrong .Also notice he says a "new millenarianism" The CDF document i quoted used the word "style" which actually backs up what I said because it opens the error to more than just a reign of Jesus and earth-of which it makes no reference. It simply states an era of peace within history is a doctrinal error. stephen, Yesterday at 9:57 PMReport #1328 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
stephen said: ↑ The CDF document i quoted used the word "style" which actually backs up what I said because it opens the error to more than just a reign of Jesus and earth-of which it makes no reference. It simply states an era of peace within history is a doctrinal error. Our Lady of Fatima as quoted by Lucia If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world It might be of interest to anyone who believes in Vassula Ryden to know that the Church specifically and strongly condemned 'automatic writing' back in the twenties when many people, following the loss of so many in the First World War, were involving themselves in seances and other methods of trying to communicate with the dead. It would be strange indeed if God chose a method to communicate which His Church had specifically and strongly condemned. Have you written a book, Stephen? A confessional, when in use, is a torture chamber to Satan and his angels. (Marino Restrepo) SteveD, Yesterday at 11:17 PMReport #1329 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
Fatima said: ↑ Stephen, can you show me where the CDF has ruled out an era of peace within history? Please be specific. The only thing that I know of that has been ruled our is the heresy of millenarianism, which is the false teaching the Jesus will physically in the flesh live her on earth for 1000 years as a king before the ned of the world. See MM link http://www.markmallett.com/blog/2010/01/on-heresies-and-more-questions/#more-539. Fatima,..It looks like we were thinking the same exact thing,, ,,,I have been following MM for quite some time now I have even met him,..I feel very confident with him and feel he is truly being led by the Holy Spirit,..and as for Fr Ianuzzi,...St. Therese was very inspired by his book The End of the Present Age sunburst, Yesterday at 11:17 PMReport #1330 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
sunburst said: ↑ Fatima,..It looks like we were thinking the same exact thing,, ,,,I have been following MM for quite some time now I have even met him,..I feel very confident with him and feel he is truly being led by the Holy Spirit,..and as for Fr Ianuzzi,...St. Therese was very inspired by his book The End of the Present Age Sunburst Fr Armijon wrote the book st Therese liked Can I just ask, who does the Holy Spirit give the authentic interpretation to Mark Mallet, Fr Ianuzzi or the Pope? stephen, Yesterday at 11:23 PMReport #1331 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
opps,.. I meant Arminjon,...The Pope but Mark Mallett always bases what he says on the Popes... sunburst, Yesterday at 11:29 PMReport #1332 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
I would have to disagree Sunburst.I would say its what he thinks the popes say stephen, Yesterday at 11:30 PMReport #1333 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
stephen said: ↑ No Fatima, that is wrong. Have you got my book yet? Stephen, I hope to have it any day. Got it from Amazon for only $10, cause I go a gif certificate from answering a few questions from State Farm Insurance Looking forward to reading it as soon as I get it! There is obviously disagreement, perhaps a misinterpretation, from various sources or "experts". Personally, I like Kelly Bowrings book, "The Sercrets, Chastisements and Triumph", which he provides ample quotations from Church Fathers, Popes & mystics. IT also has an Imprimatur. He provides much prophecy related to the era of peace as well. Let's be real, no one is going to figure it all out with 100% accuracy. However, there seems to be some really common theme's that one can paste together and as for now, I truely believe in the era of peace after the chastisements. "Through the rosary and the scapular I will one day save the world" BVM Fatima, Today at 12:14 AMReport #1334 Pasted from <http://motheofgod.com/threads/garabandal-news.2443/page-67>
