Creation or Evolution theories

Insearch, from what I read it sounds like whoever you believe these Nephilim were (either angels that got busy with the human babes or Sethites that copulated with Canaanite women), they were wiped out during the flood. The name though also appears later in the book Numbers but I think it just refers to huge men that scared the Israelites in the promised land but they eventually put a butt whoopin' on them.

 

OK, that is certainly possible, but, forgive my total illiteracy on this particular subject, is the book of Enoch a part of those 4 books, or you are just presenting an example of possibility, so, by analogy that mix-up can be extended to the book of Enoch,

 

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0120.html Mark Shea answers these questions very well

 

No, no, no, I am not talking about Nephilim, I am talking about the quote which suggests that sons of God married human women ( Nephilim were their children):

FROM THE USCCB WEBSITE- SCRIPTURE --GENESIS 6 Origin of the Nephilim.*

2​

the sons of God saw how beautiful the daughters of human beings were, and so they took for their wives whomever they pleased.

If you are fine with the theory that they were angels, you, probably, have thought about what happened later. Since by the fate of those Nephilim, which are obviously the offsprings of these marriages, one can assume, those were NOT positive creatures.
Nothing said about the mothers - but if the kids are wicked ( supposedly, because they are wiped out) then what are the fathers?

 

I went to Yahoo Answers quickly (always authoratative right?! lol)

But I found some good insight. I have to go do chores. You all hash this one out...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100516163440AAUo6IU

 

Yes

 

Yes, those answers might be helpful in showing the direction.

However, I somehow lost the track - I was initially confused by Genesis part about sons of God marrying human women and who they are. Is Enoch actually explaining that those are angels?

 

Seriously, I don't know. I DO know that there are angels, demons and all sorts of kinds of beings around right now ready to do battle. Good note: There is a lot more good than bad. Bad note: There is a battle going to happen that defies imagination. We cannot put God in a box. We cannot put the Holy Spirit in a box. If there were other planets out there with people or 'things' on them, it wouldn't surprise me at all. My God is so big, all is an infinite possibility. We are all 'aliens' to this planet called Earth. We were born for the Heavenly Jerusalem. To live in the Will Of God.

 

That's for sure

 

• The Powers

It is their charge to make sure the rules of the universe are in balance & to protect the human race from demons
Read about Principalities that I underlined in red below....
http://www.catholic.org/saints/angels/angelchoir.php

The Nine Choirs of Angels​

Seraphim

These are the highest order or choir of angels. They are the angels who are attendants or guardians before God's throne. They praise God, calling, "Holy Holy Holy is the Lord of Hosts". the only Bible reference is Isaiah 6:1-7. One of them touched Isaiah's lips with a live coal from the altar, cleansing him from sin. Seraphim have six wings, two cover their faces, two cover their feet, and two are for flying.
Cherubim

Cherubim rank after the seraphim and are the second highest in the nine hierarchies or choirs of angels. The Old Testament does not reveal any evidence that the Jews considered them as intercessors or helpers of God. They were closely linked in God's glory. They are manlike in appearance and double-winged and were guardians of God's glory. They symbolized then, God's power and mobility. In the New Testament, they are alluded to as celestial attendants in the Apocalypse (Rv 4-6). Catholic tradition describes them as angels who have an intimate knowledge of God and continually praise Him.
Thrones

Thrones are the Angels of pure Humility, Peace and Submisssion. They reside in the area of the cosmos where material form begins to take shape. The lower Choir of Angels need the Thrones to access God.
Dominions

Dominions are Angels of Leadership. They regulate the duties of the angels, making known the commands of God.
Virtues

Virtues are known as the Spirits of Motion and control the elements. They are sometimes referred to as "the shining ones." They govern all nature. They have control over seasons, stars, moon; even the sun is subject to their command. They are also in charge of miracles and provide courage, grace, and valor.>
Powers

Powers are Warrior Angels against evil defending the cosmos and humans. They are known as potentates. They fight against evil spirits who attempt to wreak chaos through human beings. The chief is said to be either Samael or Camael, both angels of darkness.
Archangels

Archangels are generally taken to mean "chief or leading angel" ( Jude 9; 1 Thes 4:16), they are the most frequently mentioned throughout the Bible. They may be of this or other hierarchies as St. Michael Archangel, who is a princely Seraph. The Archangels have a unique role as God's messenger to the people at critical times in history and salvation (Tb 12:6, 15; Jn 5:4; Rv 12:7-9) as in The Annunciation and Apocalypse. A feast day celebrating the Archangels Michael, Gabriel and Raphael is celebrated throughout the Church Sep 29. A special part of the Byzantine Liturgy invokes the "Cherubic Hymn" which celebrates these archangels and the guardian angels particularly.
Of special significance is St. Michael as he has been invoked as patron and protector by the Church from the time of the Apostles. The Eastern Rite and many others place him over all the angels, as Prince of the Seraphim. He is described as the "chief of princes" and as the leader of the forces of heaven in their triumph over Satan and his followers. The angel Gabriel first appeared in the Old Testament in the prophesies of Daniel, he announced the prophecy of 70 weeks (Dn 9:21-27). He appeared to Zechariah to announce the birth of St. John the Baptist (Lk 1:11). It was also Gabriel which proclaimed the Annunciation of Mary to be the mother of our Lord and Saviour. (Lk 1:26) The angel Raphael first appeared in the book of Tobit (Tobias)Tb 3:25, 5:5-28, 6-12). He announces "I am the Angel Raphael, one of the seven who stand before the throne of God." (Tb 12:15)
Principalities

In the New Testament Principalities refers to one type of spiritual (metaphysical) being which are now quite hostile to God and human beings. (Rom 8:38; 1 Cor 15:24; Eph 1:21; 3:10; 6:12; Col 1:16; 2:10, 15) Along with the principalities are the powers (Rom 8:38; 1 Cor 15:24; Eph 1:21; 1 Pt 3:22; 2 Thes 1:7); and cosmological powers (1 Cor 15:24; Eph 1:21; 3:10; Col 2:15);Dominions (Eph 1:21; Col 1:16) and thrones (Col1:16). The clarity of the New Testament witness helps see that these beings were created through Christ and for Him (Col 1:16). Given their hostility to God and humans due to sin, Christ's ultimate rule over them (ibid) expresses the reign of the Lord over all in the cosmos. This is the Lordship of Christ, which reveals God's tremendous salvation in conquering sin and death at the cross, and now takes place in the Church. (Eph 3:10)
Angels

These angels are closest to the material world and human begins. They deliver the prayers to God and God's answers and other messages to humans. Angels have the capacity to access any and all other Angels at any time. They are the most caring and social to assist those who ask for help.​

 

Although some things the Church does not claim to have the answers to, it has always been generally believed that the term "Sons of God" in the old testament referred to angels. Bad angels became demons. Of course we can't be certain of any of the true answers until we die or God reveals them, if He ever does. Pretty simple. Just don't see what all the arguements are about on this thread!

 

Okay I looked into it a lil bit more. My head is spinning now...haha. If you are in the camp that thinks the sons of God were fallen angels than there is a belief that they were chained in hell forever for getting some strange (the human gals). I think Jude 1:6 refers to this. Jon has pointed this out also.

If you are in the camp (like Saint Augustine, Scott Hahn) that believes the Sethites looked across the plain and thought they would get some strange also (Canaanite women) and did wrong because they went outside the chosen ones, then the sons of God are the Sethite men and strictly a human thing.

And of course the Nephilim are the offspring of this unholy copulation in either case.

 

I thought this was a thread about evolution but it derived into a discussion about angels, demons and giants...

Just curious: Has anybody watched the video I posted earlier about evolution? I am really interested about your opinions. About angels, demons and giants I am not so fit

 

Honestly, I am in no camp. Because if the first is true, the the process of falling was somewhat on-going ( as I remember, angels fall because of their pride before Adam and Eve were created, though time-frame here is somewhat confused) and that is very disturbing, because it may be happening even now

The second solution seems much more logical in the view of the rest of the order.

 

Not yet. But I will.

And, as you might see, there is a separate evolution possibility of the angels in their falling also

 

great documentary, indeed

 

you are right about that

I though the same thing about myself right after I sent that...

 

Read the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jude. I believe it can be summarized this way:

• The fallen angels that led the actions of "leaving their former estate" are chained by God
• Their offspring were not allowed to incarnate in bodies of men, and now "prowl" the earth as demonic spirits.

All of the ancient pagan cultures appear to be based on worship of these fallen ones and their offspring.
-Egyptian Book of the Dead had 50,000 years of three types of Kings: Divine Kings...Semi-Divine Kings...Mortal Kings (these last ones were the human pharaohs).
-Greek and Roman "Mythology" also contained Divine and then half-Divine offspring (<-likely based in ancient truth)
-Aztecs & Mayans also appeared to be worshipping the demonic and their offspring as well.

Ask yourself: Why did God permit harem warfare when the nation of israel was led into the promised land? (Harem warfare is the slaughter, genocide, of men women and children.) God said kill them all "unless the women have not lain with the men".

This is because it was explained by 10 of the 12 scouts who went into the land first, that the sons of Anak are there, the decendants of the nephilim, and we are like grasshoppers to them......

The flood wiped out most of them, but not all. So God bolstered His first born nation with the power of angels, and went into the promised land to commit genocide on the rest of them, and kill them all. You will recall some were huge, with six fingers and six toes....

 

Yes. And he names each angel specifically, and what type of disobedience to God they exhibitied in this world at that time.

 

Jose,

I am in the middle in regard to evolution being a vehicle of God in the act of creation. First of all, I have serious reservations about the theory of uniformitarianism, which is the bedrock of evolutionary speculation. The gaps in the fossil record are profound. We home school our children and one of the editions we use tout Lucy as an example of a missing link. Yet, some studies indicate that the inner ear structure and the shape of the wrist bones point to a creature (ape, I presume) that walked on all four. In addition, the rapid compiling of sedimentary layers after the Mt. Saint Helen explosion in the 1980s shows that the vast time requirements of evolutionary theory are, at least, questionable. On the other hand, a study of the core samples of volcanic rock in the Hawaii Islands gives real credence to the reality of multiple polar shifts during the earth's history. This certainly undermines the idea of a young earth theory.

You mention the possible use by God of mutations, but the vast amount of noted mutations tend to develop a weakened strain within a species. Doesn't it? I don't believe that idea supports evolution. I see conclusive evidence for micro-evolution, but not enough for macro-evolution, to convince me in favor of evolution. Now, there is a Theory of Catastrophism which supports the young earth theory, but it isn't very well developed. So I'm not fully convinced, either way, but I don't lose sleep over it.

Theistic evolution does not attack belief in a Creator, the Father of life, whom all of us worship on this Forum.

Safe in the Father's Arms.