Coming schism in the Church?

Kathy's underlining that the Pope is our spiritual father, the Holy Father, is important. It is obvious that we are free to disagree with, or even criticize some of the things Pope Francis may have said or done just as we are free to do the same with our biological father. However, we are all bound by God's commandment to honour our fathers and mothers. So also, a Catholic is duty bound to honour Pope Francis. I'm afraid that the constant criticism and innuendo against Francis on the forum by some shows a distinct lack of honour.

 

True David.
Actually not true. It is not like anyone here is calling Pope Francis, ' Bergolio'
What you think is a lack of honor towards Pope Francis is more likely a great love for the Petrine office.
I would still have hard words and questions for my own father if he decided to spread the faith through interviews with...
Eugene Scalfari


Or take photos with ..

 

ete etc.... But at least the blunder time is over now . According to Charlie, and its full speed ahead now .No more blunders.

 

As a little worm I can look at the work of the ants (who have superior knowledge and engineering skills) and watch as they work on a project, and say to my friend the slug........

'I see the ants are building another home for their larvae!’

and my friend the slug says....... ‘no that’s not true, as I heard the ants are constructing a bridge from this tree to the adjacent tree’.


When the ants are finished, we find that they didn’t’ build a new home for their larvae, nor did they build a bridge to the next tree.

But they built a temporary shelter for themselves before they moved on to greater things.


As a little worm, should I really try to surmise the intentions of the ants?


And as for my friend the slug, he needs a slapping for spreading misinformation!!

 

I don't believe that Pope Francis is making a blunder when he gives interviews to Eugene Scalfari. There is a good article in the latest issue of the Catholic Herald (not available on the internet) called "The atheist who has the Pope's ear". The article discusses the problems that follow on from these interviews but it quotes a biographer of Francis, Paul Vallely, as believing that in the interviews Scalfari captures what the Pope thinks privately. And that Pope Francis wants people to know what he is thinking without issuing a 'papal fiat'.

 

Right. This is his 4th interview with Scalfari. So it is difficult to believe that Scalfari is not getting the gist right. If he were getting it wrong, why would Pope Francis be still giving interviews to him? And what he says in those interviews is of some concern, though it is precisely in these types of situations that the Pope is not infallible.

 

Here is a very good article by Fr. Berg about the synod and it's aftermath:

http://fatherberg.com/after-the-synod-a-church-divided/

 

From this mornings Liturgy of the Hours (Leo the Great, Pope and Doctor):

Jesus said to Simeon: I tell you most solemnly that you are Peter, and I will build my Church upon this rock foundation - and the powers of hell will never overcome it.
From all eternity, God's Church stands firm.
And the powers of hell will never overcome it.

 

Now this, the past half a day's worth of posts on this thread, is a healthier debate that is not anti-church, anti-pope (or in other words "antichrist"), but at the same time seems to be respectful of each other as well, with real attempts to understand points being put forward.

I don't think anyone here presumes to have an overarching wisdom regarding how the Pope should or should not use the media (i.e. interviews, atheists, etc.). I think even those openly worried about the resultant effects of the soundbite media can fully grasp the possibility that Pope Francis, being led by the Holy Spirit, is masterfully representing Christ and can see the forest through the trees.

However, it is not schismatic to express concern out of respect for the Church, the Truth, and the office. Especially when that concern is expressed among a group of friends that share the same solid faith, and are seeking a true forum of support, prayer and discussion.

 

My problem is not that he made a blunder with this gentleman. But that he did not.

In other words that a kite is being flown to see how it will be taken.

 

Yes....And it is always attractive and refreshing to witness a humble athlete, for humility is the supreme virtue.

 

I would have thought that Pope Francis would only be guided by the Holy Spirit in matters of doctrine rather than in comments to the "soundbite media". Wasn't it a Borgia Pope who was notoriously scandalous in his behaviour and certainly not led by the Holy Spirit in these instances, but was eminently sound in his doctrinal pronouncements? While there may have been no malice involved, it is unlikely that the Holy spirit guided Pope Paul VI in his overseeing of the destruction done to the Church during and after Vatican II but his untypically brave presentation of Humanae Vitae was clearly fortified by the Holy Spirit.

In other words, we shouldn't be having a "canary" at every controversial comment by Pope Francis. These things aren't crucial. He hasn't said anything heretical, I don't think there's a chance he will, and remember the old saying, "bid the divil 'good day' when you meet him".

 

Thank you Jon for perfectly expressing my view.

 

Just like the synod...the lines are drawn

 

Two thoughts on the last day's postings:

1. My own view of papal infallibility is very narrow. Otherwise, I would believe in the "thrice defined dogma" of "outside the church there is no salvation"St. Pius 10 schismatic church.
2. I believe that when the holy father stepped into the global warming and unlimited immigration debates he took, what I believe, are damaging stances to his flock and the world. It is here that I believe the damage will be felt for years unless he knows something I don't, ie all the muslim/ISIS sympathizers convert en masse.

 

How does one differentiate the spiritual from the world?

I will only discuss one of your statements...Our Holy Fathers stance on immigration is in line with what Jesus would do. Now if you think about it...we are called to shelter and feed the poor. Yes, i don't do it. Rockstar saints do it. But spiritually, when Our Holy Father says countries should open its doors...it is theologically correct.

Maybe the US doesn't want its southern brothers and sisters to cross the borders. But if they need help as Christians...that is what we should do. To our european brothers and sisters...to take in middle east brothers and sisters who are coming out of war. Is Christianity

The world might not like the Holy Fathers statements but as a universal church they are sound. I get we don't want our way of life burdened
or changed but the Pope speaks for the Universal Church. Not for the Church of the United States or the Church of any individual nation. The Holy Fathers only real concern is souls.

So, your concern about damaging stances to the world has nothing to do with the spiritual side of the statement. The Holy see owes no alligence to the world...it owes its alligence to our Lord and Savior.

 

Prayers needed for the health of the Pope:

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0SY23220151109#QcD6EqelzSBF5GiY.97

 

That is powerful Fallen Saint!

So Very True!!!
I must say, your really good at bringing issues into a Catholic spiritual context.

 

FS, I mostly agree with this, where it becomes tricky though is with those coming over are in huge numbers Muslim. Many not willing to assimilate into the Christian society and many of the law enforcement organizations believe there are lots of possible Extreme Muslim Terrorist hiding among them. That is where it becomes tricky. As a general statement I agree with what you say, devil is in the details though.

 

Fallen saint,

The way I look at, the Pope has taken the correct stance on immigration- feed the poor, shelter the homeless..... I think part of the confusion (at least from my own life perspective) is that is the great deception. The true poor due not receive the help that is needed, because resources are utilized by those that have nefarious intentions (I live this every day!)