I feel like that person who enters a room late and drama is all around. I am sorry but I didn't read your post. I just got here at this moment. No time to read back pages. In the big picture who am I to judge If you know your dilemma then that gets you one step closer to God. How many men and woman have gone through this throughout the ages? All you can really do is pray and follow your heart. I can chastise you to hell but not what God wants. Did Jesus ever cast a individual soul to hell. He sent demons back and also gave warnings... but he never judged on earth. Why should we...I am writing this with no knowledge of your situation. Step back and see the beauty of God...now by understanding Gods cross just work baby steps towards heaven. May Gods Will be Done
Personally I think you need to wind your neck in (PRIDE). None here have been judgemental but have offered the truth in charity to one who was wrongly informed that her situation was normative fora believing and practicing catholic (honesty) (humility) (gentleness) and whatever other terms may be put in parentheses.
Brother Crewdog...again we write the same thing at the same time. Sometimes we are lucky to walk the same path. I wish it was a physical path cause i would give you a hug, invite you for dinner, have a few pints, tell some war stories around the camp fire...then next day part ways and move on to our next adventure. Keep the Faith Brother Al
I understand it appears to be a stone that is cast by me, when trying to point this out, but I have tried to address it directly and nicely, and it just doesn't seem to matter. I love this forum and the fact that Our Lady governs it through Padraig. Padraig is always clear about the reason and purpose for which it was created. My observation is that the free nature of the forum (which is similar in a way to the gift of our own free will) can lead to the free choice to sin against others. As Charlie points this out, he calls it the Wild West aspect of this type of forum, and I agree with him that this type of free exchange is necessary and a good thing (and even preferable to many of us, including me). I just have the personal sense that the tone and the topics have thus begun to stray further and further from Our Lady's purpose here, by the free choice of us who are participating......
I am pretty sure I know what both you and CD are getting at and I'm not liking the implication one bit. Good thing this is a virtual forum and not a physical saloon. When fellow Catholics put forward the Church's perennial teaching in a loving manner we are not being know it all arrogant cold hearted Pharisees. All this nonsense and name calling and complete abuse of the term pharisaical is a disgrace. As I noted earlier this is basic stuff. The problem is some folks just dont know there faith which employs both the intellect and the heart. All compassion and sentimentality is not only false but is spiritually dangerous when divorced from the truth. The faith is not some movement of the heart and I will defend the Church's teaching with all the wit God has given me despite the charges laid against faithful Catholics on this forum
I see no wild west saloon here. What I see is a community of Catholics at different stages on their journey to the fullness of faith which is what can be expected in a mix of cradle Catholics, converts and reverts from different countries, cultures and backgrounds. I'm learning here, and I thank Padraig for the opportunity. I'm aware of Charlie's blog although I don't follow it much because I'm not convinced that the storm we are in is all that different than what Catholics in different parts of the world have faced at various intervals in the past 2000 years. Just because apostate/protestant USA and Europe are reaping the rewards of their apostasy and protestantism doesn't mean that some worldwide chastisement is imminent, so I take the warnings with a large pinch of salt. What we are experiencing is only a puff of wind compared with what our Irish forebears and Catholics in Britain suffered from self-proclaimed Christians in the past and wouldn't even register on any windscale compared to the persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union and what Middle Eastern Christians have suffered since the rise of Islam. Charlie's blog is just that - his own blog. This is a forum where any member can start a thread and all members can participate in the discussion. I looked at some of the comments on Charlie's blog. Being Irish and with not much of a taste for alcohol, I didn't care for some of the stereotyping. I have never seen any bar room brawls in any pub I ever visited and I see no brawls here - just differences of opinion from people with different communication skills. We're all Catholics who hope and pray for each other, for our Church and that God's will be done on earth. Is that so terrible?
I would suggest that when it comes to the going-ons in other people's personal lives and bedrooms, especially within the confines of The Blogosphere, it would be wise to keep ones opinions to ones self ....... even if in you are 100% confident in your beliefs! GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
Malachi, There is a fine line...You can lead us in fire and brimstone but that is not what our Master has taught. We can lay out the foundation of why something is wrong. And from my understanding (which I still haven't read) she understands the dilemma. That means she understands something is wrong. The question is.... how do we approach our discussion on how to fix the problem. My solution was pretty simple look to God and pray. Work through your cross. Through the darkness find light. Its called the conversion process. It might be time to read the lives of the saints...and not the happy books about floating, reading minds and bi-location. The real story is the conversion process (life long journey) and how it leads them to God. So yes, a Pharisees only sees black and white. A saint see's life, as a conversion process, sinning all the way til the end. My gripe with Blue Horizon is that his starting point was reason. My gripe with you is your starting point is the law. That would only work if we were perfect. And only the Master is perfect. Just by somebody knowing right and wrong... it becomes the starting point of conversion. And conversion is a life long journey... not a one day decision. Gods spirituality is a life-long journey that has demons in every corner. I bet Malachi... sparrow has her own demons but so do you. Brother al
Again, the Pharisees in Christ's time were those promoting divorce. Jesus refuted them. They are no different today. They promote libertinism today and call it "mercy" then project on Jesus' true followers their own sin. People can spin and project all they want. God is not deceived. Neither are those who follow Him and know His Teachings.
Gotcha Moment...Sarah Palin. Jesus refuted teaching to the Pharisees...he never damned a soul on earth. HUGE difference. It is great, we understand sin... but it is the souls conversion process that matters to God. We must always go two steps forward even though WE ALL fall one step back. Brian you should really start reading Our Holy Fathers Homilies...not his off the cuff one sentence remarks. He speaks of the evils of abortion, contraception and euthanasia. Those are the teachings, Our Holy Father gives to his spiritual brothers and sisters. We should know better...because we are Catholic. Brian there is fine line to walk...either extreme is bad.
I trust God to take care of anything that transpires no matter what comes out of the mouth of the Holy Father.. he walks the walk and I like that, the rest I leave to God. We already know who wins this battle
My My starting point is the law...really that's a bit of a "judgement" call that is so far of the mark it isn't worth my time to refute. Sparrow thought herself to be justified in following her erroneous conscience. Moreover she, with the support of straw men Catholics on this forum, considered her opinion doubly justified by her understanding of the Pope's remarks and the devilish advice of her pastor. When we have taken the time to give the teaching of the Church in a sensitive and pastoral manner e are condemned for it. We just can't win. Diabolical confusion and hypocrisy is alive and well on this forum
Malachi: I just want to say Thank You for clearly stating Church teaching. I was one of those who wavered because I know someone in much the same situation as Sparrow. Standing up for the truth and speaking it plainly takes courage. I'm still unsure, however, that there aren't variations in how Church teaching is applied in practice where only one spouse converts or reverts.
I am sorry you think my sharing of my personal life is not worth listening to Sparrow. You are mistaken if you think that I don't understand. I have no room to judge at all--I simply told you what the Church teaches. How can I judge if I went through the same thing? You think I am being critical? I in no way suggested your husband was a monster. You, however need to wake up and see that you COULD BE STRONGER. I offered to walk this walk with you. Thats what friends do. I offered my friendship as a sister in Christ and I offered it privately. I've gone through hell myself trying to be pro-life and because of my fortitude, my husband converted, my children converted and I do not take that lightly. I can hardly believe that this is the first time someone has told you that you are putting your soul in danger. You are in a public forum. You chose to be here and to open up. No one forced you. You have a great perspective that could have helped others come to Christ. Because through our trials and errors we are made saints! When we fall down however, we MUST GET UP. I was only trying to help you up. I hope you can see that. No judgement. Just get back on track.
This is a question for clarification. Technically, prior to Sparrow opening up she was not in sin because she did what she needed to do and took it to a confessor. The confessor in this case would have been responsible for not giving her the proper advise. Now though there is new found knowledge on the situation that Sparrow should take to her confessor or another as some have stated. One has to have full knowledge of the sin and knowingly break it right? Another question. How often should we seek a second or third opinion from a confessor?
Sparrow claims to be a Catholic and is able to read. She has (as we all do) a duty to learn her faith. The Catechism is readily available as are 100's of Apologetics web sites. Claiming ignorance due to laziness is doubly wrong.
The problem in this thread is not Sparrow's personal tales of woe that might mitigate her ignorance or dissent from Magisterial teachings. The problem is that her first three posts on this thread were an attack on the Church's teachings and those defending it. As such, those defending the Faith were not "attacking" her or condemning her, they were correcting her for her attacks on the teachings of the Church. Please review her first three posts before making further (unfounded) commentary regarding those who opposed her attack on the Church's teachings.
Did you not know that Christ demands perfection from his followers? "Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5v48) Because only that which is perfect shall enter the kingdom of God. That is our calling in Christ to become holy and perfect in His sight through His grace working in us as children of God to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished on us. (Ephesians 1v7). Our call is not to mediocrity but to Christian perfection like the saints. Our calling is to holiness (Vatican II). That can only be done through the power of God's grace working in us. Your point that a saint see's life as a conversion process, "sinning all the way til the end" is at variance with Christ's call to perfection. Christ told the woman at the well to 'go and sin no more' not to continue on the merry path of mortal sin. In fact your thinking process is similar to the protestant reformer Martin Luther who told his followers 'Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong; sin boldly' as if sin were no great thing. Peter, the first Pope stated that Christians 'ought to live holy and Godly lives' (2 Peter 3v11) and that means continual repentance and conversion from sin so that we are in a state of grace at 'the end'.
It is becoming clearer by the minute that Sparrow has a wise spiritual guide who not only gave her good advice in the beginning but also recently when he advised her to leave the forum. To be subjected to the above judgmental posts would have been more than anyone deserves.
